How much credit should you get for beating smaller guys?

[TitoFan]

In the old days, fighters stuck to fighting within their division. Eventually they moved up, when their bodies prevented them from losing the weight any longer, but that was the exception, rather than the rule. Nowadays, it seems as if everybody wants to skip 3 or 4 divisions. The latest superstar to do it is Pac.

When he was preparing to fight DLH, my opinion, which I stated every chance I got, was that DLH should not get too much credit if he were to beat Pac, 'cause he was brazenly going after the smaller man, while avoiding welters his own size, such as Margarito and Cotto. Well, as it turns out, Pac threw a monkey wrench into DLH's plans by beating the stuffing out of him (heh-heh). Pac gets credit, 'cause even though DLH was way past his prime, he was still the much bigger man.

For example: One thing that makes Ivan Calderon such a strong p4p fighter is that he's gone up in weight to beat champions such as Hugo Cazares. Had Cazares beaten Ivan, he would've gotten credit 'cause Ivan was and still is undefeated, but not nearly as much credit as Ivan gets for beating him.

Now it's Pac vs Hatton, and the Hatton fans are making a huge deal over it. Well, IMO... it's Pac-DLH all over again. Except that Hatton is not as much over-the-hill as DLH was. And Hatton's style is to muscle and bully his way over his opponent. Hatton is a natural 140-pounder, whereas for all of Pac's skills, his natural weight is 130. (Not to mention he started his career at 105). So tell me... how much credit should Hatton get for beating Pac? Not much, I think.

[Kel]

Depends, Pac looked great at 147 but never looked like a much smaller guy at all, only in height obviously. He looked ripped too. If Hatton beats him it's a very good win IMO.

Hopkins has beaten a lot of big names but some of them were much smaller and it was clearly visible in the ring. Trinindad and De La Hoya both looked fleshy and were clearly lacking in size and strength. Even Winky Wright looked undersized somewhat. Three VERY good fighters, all out of their depth though in reality because along with size Hopkins is/was a skilled technician with very good power. So not too much credit for these wins for me.

Even Calzaghe and Pavlic moved up to fight him

[JazMerkin]

Depends, Pac looked great at 147 but never looked like a much smaller guy at all, only in height obviously. He looked ripped too. If Hatton beats him it's a very good win IMO.

Hopkins has beaten a lot of big names but some of them were much smaller and it was clearly visible in the ring. Trinindad and De La Hoya both looked fleshy and were clearly lacking in size and strength. Even Winky Wright looked undersized somewhat. Three VERY good fighters, all out of their depth though in reality because along with size Hopkins is/was a skilled technician with very good power. So not too much credit for these wins for me.

Even Calzaghe and Pavlic moved up to fight him

Although I thought both looked bigger than him. Let's not forget that until 3 years ago he was still a MW, whilst JC was a SMW, which would logically make JC the bigger fighter naturally, & Pavlik looked bigger in the ring for definite IMO. I don't think either Tito or ODLH looked small at the weight, I thought Oscar looked fine at least against Hopkins up until he got knocked out, whilst Trinidad was tearing guys apart before fighting Hopkins.

[TitoFan]

Depends, Pac looked great at 147 but never looked like a much smaller guy at all, only in height obviously. He looked ripped too. If Hatton beats him it's a very good win IMO.

Hopkins has beaten a lot of big names but some of them were much smaller and it was clearly visible in the ring. Trinindad and De La Hoya both looked fleshy and were clearly lacking in size and strength. Even Winky Wright looked undersized somewhat. Three VERY good fighters, all out of their depth though in reality because along with size Hopkins is/was a skilled technician with very good power. So not too much credit for these wins for me.

Even Calzaghe and Pavlic moved up to fight him

Hatton beating Pac would indeed be a very good win for him. It just wouldn't elevate his p4p status like a win over say... Cotto, would. Why? 'Cause of the size element. Pac may have looked ripped, but it doesn't change the fact that he was way over his natural weight. Major props to Pac.

And yes... Hopkins did beat a Trinidad and a De La Hoya who were both over their peak fighting weights at 160, whereas Hopkins had been a MW practically his entire career. But as the previous poster indicated, Trinidad had been on a KO binge, even KO'ing William Joppy in his first 160-pound fight. And Joppy had been MW champion. So Hopkins' stock went up even though he had beaten a naturally smaller man.

[Kel]

Depends, Pac looked great at 147 but never looked like a much smaller guy at all, only in height obviously. He looked ripped too. If Hatton beats him it's a very good win IMO.

Hopkins has beaten a lot of big names but some of them were much smaller and it was clearly visible in the ring. Trinindad and De La Hoya both looked fleshy and were clearly lacking in size and strength. Even Winky Wright looked undersized somewhat. Three VERY good fighters, all out of their depth though in reality because along with size Hopkins is/was a skilled technician with very good power. So not too much credit for these wins for me.

Even Calzaghe and Pavlic moved up to fight him

Hatton beating Pac would indeed be a very good win for him. It just wouldn't elevate his p4p status like a win over say... Cotto, would. Why? 'Cause of the size element. Pac may have looked ripped, but it doesn't change the fact that he was way over his natural weight. Major props to Pac.

And yes... Hopkins did beat a Trinidad and a De La Hoya who were both over their peak fighting weights at 160, whereas Hopkins had been a MW practically his entire career. But as the previous poster indicated, Trinidad had been on a KO binge, even KO'ing William Joppy in his first 160-pound fight. And Joppy had been MW champion. So Hopkins' stock went up even though he had beaten a naturally smaller man.

What about the RJJ fight? Did his stock go up too? or was it exactly the same? A bigger guy beating a smaller guy?

[Taeth]

I think it depends on how good the guy is, I am sure everybody onhere who has foughten somebody smaller than them that is really good would atest to the fact that sometimes size and weight means almost nothing.

[Kel]

I think it depends on how good the guy is, I am sure everybody onhere who has foughten somebody smaller than them that is really good would atest to the fact that sometimes size and weight means almost nothing.

When you get two guys at different weights with the same skill rate it makes a big difference.