Things that Pac does that I think would bother Floyd

[Deanrw]

First I'm probably still leaning towards Floyd, anybody with his defensive skills probably has to be the favorite.

But

1)Southpaw-Best southpaw Floyd's ever fought which isn't a shock since he's up there with Pernell as the best ever.

Floyd's defense is set up beautifully for conventional straight punching right handers. He pull counters the jab (which to be fair he could still probably do to Manny although maybe not as easily), he shoulder rolls the right hand, while his left hand is usually down that's ok cause he keeps his right hand glued to his chin to block conventional left hooks. He also protects the body well on both sides. So obviously there just aren't a ton of options.

But against a left hander it doesn't work quite as well.

The right hand glued to the chin doesn't work against right hooks, obviously. It doesn't really protect against straight left hands fully either. Keeping the left hand down to shoulder roll right hands is fine but it doesn't work the same against right hooks (and especially ones thrown from the odd angles that Pac does)

I'm a Pacquaio fan but Mayweather's people have let it be clearly known that they don't like him fighting left handers, its pretty simple why, he's just not set up for left handers like he is for right handers. Two fights he's had in the recent past against left handers, Corley and Judah, and he was hit more cleanly in both than he almost ever has. Granted he was kind of hyper agressive for him in the Corley fight but Pacquaio is on another level compared to those guys.

He's also got great reflexes so its not like he's totally lost fighting left handers but that's where Pacquaio's speed comes in, he would IMO be caught more in this fight than he ever has been if they're not always gigantic flush punches.

2)Angles-Floyd like I was saying earlier is perfectly set up for not only right handers but conventional punchers, Manny is anything but conventional. Floyd I don't think loves right hooks and they come at odd angles and very fast.

3)Footspeed and footwork-This kind of plays into angles as Manny is great at bouncing side to side and throwing from angles. But guys like Floyd and Hopkins eat up slow footed guys that need to be set to punch. Obviously Manny is not slow footed and he doesn't need to be set to punch. Hatton's footspeed was one of his best assets against Floyd cause he could get in on him but he languished on the inside and Floyd was just better than him there. Manny wouldn't languish on the inside, he would bounce in, bounce out, move side to side and throw from angles. Its good that he's not lunging in so much anymore but its even worse for a heavy footed guy (ala JMM) who has to shuffle forward, set and jab cause its just easy for Floyd to take on little step back, counter the first punch and slip away.

Bit odd but as I type this I realize some of the problems Calzaghe posed for Hopkins are some I'm thinking of here. Quick feet, no need to set to punch, totally unconventional punch angles, southpaw stance (which Bernard is actually more suited to deal with than Floyd), volume and speed.

And then there's power although power against Floyd without other things is almost meaningless hence why I'm not talking about it as much.

In a nutshell, this is why I've said for a while that Pacqauio is probably the toughest challenge for Floyd outside of I guess Paul Williams, tougher than Cotto (way to slow footed, too conventional and not enough power to turn the fight with one punch and he'd need it cause no way he wins a decision and he doesn't land enough to wear Floyd down) and really Mosley too.

Fuck that was long winded, too much like Bilbo, and probably inaccurate, way too much like Bilbo.

Manny will be in tough on the outside due to Floyd's reach and will have to be careful on the inside as Floyd loves breaking the rules there.

If Roach and camp can get a decent ref who will not allow Floyd to manipulate the inside with elbows and forearms, Manny's chances increase quite a bit. There is no question he will face a storm against Floyd, but Floyd will be facing one in him also. Manny is not like any other fighter Floyd has faced. He changes direction and angles on a dime and he brings non stop perpetual motion. It is a fight that could go either way in my opinion. Floyd has more skills, but never fights to his potential. He has let many fighters enjoy some success against him that should not have. He can be inactive and sometimes downright lazy in there.

Manny he will facing someone that is Marquez X 2. Now Floyd's defense is infinitely better than Marquez and he is quite a bit faster also. The only advantage Marquez had over Floyd is volume and combination punching. Manny had trouble with Marquez as Marquez can be a wolverine on the inside with vicious combination countering. He will not suffter that against floyd but will run into elbows etc.

[OumaFan]

Mayweather is going to pick Manny apart. You guys are looking at all of Manny's strenghts, but its his weaknesses that are glaring and what Mayweather will exploit. They are both great athletes, but Mayweather is far better technically, and if you are one of the very few fights good enough and quick enough Manny is wide open to be countered. At the fight I was amazed how much difficulty Manny had landing punches effectively when Cotto was moving away. I mean when Cotto was fighting intelligently he was hitting Manny way more than he was getting hit, but when he started to open up thats when Manny with his superior speed was able to change the tide. A lot of Manny's combinations simply hit Cotto's gloves. It wasn't until Cotto started getting sloppy defensively that Manny was able to counter and hurt him, and after that it was all over because Cotto can't win hurt, at least not against a guy he can't hurt.

Of course I am, the thread's titled "Things that Pac does that I think would bother Floyd" not "Manny's such a fuckup, look at all these things he can't do right"

I am fully aware that Manny does somethings that Floyd can exploit. I am still leaning towards Floyd after all, my only point was this is the first time in like forever that I'm seriously considering picking somebody against Floyd and here's why.

Cotto was straight out running from Manny after the sixth, its almost impossible to look good and accurate against somebody like that all the time. Manny still landed enough to punish Cotto in most of those rounds outside of the tenth which he seemed to kind of take off. Anyway Floyd's probably not going to be fighting like that (his reputation as a runner is overblown) so it doesn't really matter here. You obviously don't think so either. Overall I'd say you are giving too much credit to Cotto when he was fighting smart. He fought as good a fight as he could early but after the second round I just got a sense that Manny was kind of toying with him in a way. Tested his power a little, fought flat footed more than usual and more than he probably should have but basically when he decided to kick ass he would.

I think you mentioned something in another thread about how Floyd will keep a high guard and come forward and throw rights against Manny. He definitely might do that but I wouldn't say he'd necessarily absolutely do it against Manny just cause he's done it against other southpaws. The other southpaws he's fought lately, Judah and Corley, are different than Manny and very similar to each other. Neither really wants to take the lead and come forward, and neither are impose their wills on guys type fighters, they like to sit back, move a little and counter. Plus the Corley fight was a bit of an anomaly anyway, Floyd was hyper agressive in that fight from the very start, maybe because he didn't really respect Corley, maybe he wanted to make a splash at 140, maybe it was a combination of things. Whatever it was, it wasn't normal procedure for him. And either way Floyd definitely is more comfortable, far more comfortable, fighting righties.

[Taeth]

I just think that if you look at Manny and Floyd, Mayweather has virtually no weaknesses in boxing, while Manny still does. Usually his gifts and offensive style more than compensate for those weaknesses but we have seen great fighter with similar mentalities to Floyd give Manny a lot of problems, and they were far less adept in fighting that way than Mayweather is.

The reason I don't believe Mayweather would move away from Manny is because if the fight went to a decision judges would give it to Manny purely on aggresion. Manny is so much better when he can get you on the ropes or catch you coming in foolishly. I don't think Mayweather is dumb enough to let Manny fight his fight, thats not how Mayweather fights. I think that based on their styles it easier to take Manny's fight out of the game than it is Mayweather because he is the more multi faceted fighter which is why I think Marquez possed so many problems for Manny.