What should a boxer think about when fighting/sparring?

[Gray Lion]

I never thought about anything. I concentrated on defense and how to get through to the other fighter. It was a combination of reflex, muscle memory, instinct, and determination. I can't ever recall another thought entering my head during a fight or sparring. In the corner, I listened to my trainer and tried to process what I was doing right or wrong when I came out of my corner. I've heard other guys talk about a song going through their head, a fantasy, recalling a memory, a picture, or concentrating on something that made them angry....but I can't speak for them. I can't help but believe that if your mind is not focused on the fight, your setting yourself up for a loss.

[Andre]

...
, i have to say this is quite a good subject and its had me thinking about things i have never really thought about before, but basically i would say there are tiny little thoughts going on like you mentioned when you get the better or worse end of an exchange, when you see an opening you might go for the next time it appears etc but atleast in my case these types of thoughts just seem to happen automatically without really considering them as actual thoughts, maybe thats because ive fought in different martial arts since a young age and im just used to these thoughts so much that they dont really seem like a big part of things while fighting if you get me?

It being automatic is pretty much similar to my experience.

A big part of my motivation for the question is to decide if this is a 'good thing' so as to change it if it's not the optimum.

My goal is to think about as many things as possible AHEAD of time, outside the ring, so as to avoid having any unnecessary indecision, delay, or distraction in the ring.

And this includes 'thinking about thinking' -- figure out as much as possible ahead of time and keep the brain cycles for critical items that need focus in the moment.

...i think by getting into this system way of fighting it allows alot more speed because when you think about it in a fight speed isnt just being able to physically move fast, its a mixture of 3 things, reflex on how quickly you react to your opponent starts with you eyes i think, they see whats going on and then its your brain/reflexes turn to make a decision on what you will do to evade this attack, and then its the physical speed in which you can actually do the selected counter movement that is the final contribution to the overall speed of things, wouldnt it be great if there was a way to train and improve this process?

There are ways to train this process, and this was another major part of my reason for the question.

The best set of tools for directly changing your neurological responses are from NLP (neuro-linguistic programming.)

sort of getting side tracked from my point, anyway to answer your question, yes there are little thoughts going on in there but i think they are more like your sub con just sort of relaying bak to you whats actually happening during the fight like a check list, rather than actual thought of what im going to do next. this is a good subject though im definently interested on what other people think or dont think while boxing?

Me too -- but most people responding so far has just said to avoid thinking. About the only responses of people describing their (desired) thoughts were simple things along the lines of "move" etc.

I know that I do decide consciously (sometimes) things like moving around to the right versus going left -- or whether I will bob and weave or just through while advancing.

I don't do either of these or many other things automatically (i.e., in the same way each time) and I believe that is a good thing since it make my movements less predictable, but it can be a bad thing if it slows down those.

Usually these types of thoughts and decisions are active when we are separating to re-engage. That is we are on a break or one of us escapes from the ropes or from an attack, and gets a lot of space between us etc.

There is a bit more time for complex thoughts before the re-engagement.

It's also possible (effecitive) to do this when my opponent and I have closed only enough to 'feel each other out', but not enough to deliver heavy blows without changing the separation.

It's a little more dangerous at this range since a sudden forward drive by your opponent can quickly change the situation and getting distracted is NOT a good thing.

There is also the issue of how much thought vs. how automatic to make the jabs and other shots to open areas. Decisions on how deep to drive or whether to just take the quick hit and get away again etc.

it probably comes down to everyone being different and having their own way of dealing with things, just like personality the way someone would approach a fight or any task depends on their brain and how it works things out and that depends on the everyday interactions and experiences that have helped to form that brains opinions on things as its gone through life,

Absolutely true that everyone is different, but I asked the question to avoid assuming that my natural (untrained) methods were the best or most effective even for me.

I wanted to hear as much as possible of what others do and bring this into the area of conscious decision (outside the ring) so as to optimize the effectiveness of whatever thought we do have -- or avoid.

Just like planning footwork or combinations, figuring out these things ahead of time, practicing even this seemingly automatic activity can improve our performance in the moment.

It's possible that staying in some sort of 'zen no-mind' state ALL of the time is best. It's also possible that some other, or some combination of mental states (changing as the situation changes) may be best.

Once we have some idea of what the best methods are, we can train and practice those, just like we train and practice other skills and techniques.

The oddity here is that most boxing coaches (or other physical activity trainers) don't usually discuss these issues.

i watched a programme on the brain the other day it was really fascinating to find out how it might actually work and how the everyday interactions and situations that youve experienced through life is what sort of moulds you ,determines your personality/views on certain things and gives people their indervidual personalities, oops gone off track again >.<

Not a problem -- the above is true, and precisely because it is true we can consciously work to affect this molding.

There are training methods for the brain that are very nearly as explicit as those for the body.

Im not saying avoid thinking altogether, Im saying avoid over thinking or getting trapped in questioning your skills at the wrong time.

If youre left to read between the lines; then you can think it out for yourself and you'll take more notice of you than you ever will of me .

You have to think. But if you make your single moves then your combo moves so routine and so regimented and perfect to start with; that they become inbuilt reactions to the correct situations then you have the freedom and space to utilize all that you know.

That takes intense training /sparring shadow boxing and much fore thought /but thats at the right time.

When all the little pieces that make up the whole, does become natural instinct and you have perfected your foundation moves you can blend your natural abilities with what you've learnt alot easier.

There is a right time for everything, and if that is true; theres the reverse to that as well which is just as complex.

My brain hurts.
I suppose the question arises: is knowing better than thinking at times?

I think experience in anything removes the fear of uncertainty.

Once the thought of uncertainty is removed you can flow with what you know.


"When you can snatch the stones from my hand Mr banana, its time to leave".

[jahmez]

I think its also about balance based on personality and your previous session. Some people are aggressive by nature but sometimes this impedes them technically while others are passive yet lack urgency and work ethic. Some sessions you might rush in a little too much, sometimes you might be waiting a little too often. I dont think there is a blueprint for every scenario and that its important to realize that your mood is never the same day in day out and that your attitude has to change each day.

[HerbM]

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Im not saying avoid thinking altogether, Im saying avoid over thinking or getting trapped in questioning your skills at the wrong time.

Agreed -- I don't think anyone would want to get too deep into thinking, nor want to question and doubt.

I was always presuming some type of positive reinforcement or tactical calculation to improve behavior.

E.g., "Move, throw combos, fake the jab throw the hook" or "He's dropping his left, let's hit that", "he's getting to us when he comes in, circle more, counterpunch more", "Hey, that worked, do it again" etc

If youre left to read between the lines; then you can think it out for yourself and you'll take more notice of you than you ever will of me .

Not sure what the above sentence means or references.

Maybe you mean self-correcting will mean more than listening to others (e.g., coaches?) but I am not sure about that.

You have to think. But if you make your single moves then your combo moves so routine and so regimented and perfect to start with; that they become inbuilt reactions to the correct situations then you have the freedom and space to utilize all that you know.

Agreed.

Should you be telling yourself to do more of what you need to be doing UNTIL it becomes automated behavior?

How about space? Noticing and giving yourself instructions to change the distance? (Even if it is by inches).

I know I do this successfully in knife fighting: I see his hand is a very little bit exposed, so I feint and try to draw it out just a little more until I can JUST reach it without exposing myself (much), then I cut. In a real fight (instead of training knives), I would take off his fingers and he would lose the knife. Most of this is planned with conscious thought a good deal of the time.

I still don't know if that is the MOST EFFECTIVE behavior, but that is the essence of my question for people who notice their own thoughts.

That takes intense training /sparring shadow boxing and much fore thought /but thats at the right time.

Agree. I am however always looking for ways to speed up learning or tricks that lead to higher effectiveness.

Just like proper stance and punching technique, I have the belief that proper thought might make us better fighters.

So my question was (and is), "What are the best ways to use our minds in the ring to box better right now and to improve over time?"

...

I suppose the question arises: is knowing better than thinking at times?

I believe that almost goes without saying. If you know without thinking then their is no delay and no distraction.

Even if 'thinking' is a good thing, knowing some things would let you concentrate and think about others.

We want to automate as much behavior as possible, but I also believe we want to consciously use that most powerful weapon of all, The Human Mind, to augment our physical and intuitive performance.

I think experience in anything removes the fear of uncertainty.

Once the thought of uncertainty is removed you can flow with what you know.

...

Agreed -- uncertainty and doubt don't help.

What thoughts do help?

The alternative, Mushin no shin (mind of no mind), takes many years (decades?) to develop and most boxers and coaches never discuss anything like this.

Giving up anger, fear, doubts, etc seems to be highly useful and not that hard; giving up all thought (plans, calculations, encouragement, positive commands) seems to be harder and perhaps counter-productive.


Common advice is that practice makes perfect. This is however wrong, or at best incomplete: Perfect practice makes perfect.

--
HerbM

[HerbM]

I think its also about balance based on personality and your previous session. Some people are aggressive by nature but sometimes this impedes them technically while others are passive yet lack urgency and work ethic. Some sessions you might rush in a little too much, sometimes you might be waiting a little too often. I dont think there is a blueprint for every scenario and that its important to realize that your mood is never the same day in day out and that your attitude has to change each day.

So are you thinking about things/ways to control and adjust such behavior?

How do you best affect those behaviors in the moment, i.e., during the round?

[jahmez]

I think its also about balance based on personality and your previous session. Some people are aggressive by nature but sometimes this impedes them technically while others are passive yet lack urgency and work ethic. Some sessions you might rush in a little too much, sometimes you might be waiting a little too often. I dont think there is a blueprint for every scenario and that its important to realize that your mood is never the same day in day out and that your attitude has to change each day.

So are you thinking about things/ways to control and adjust such behavior?

How do you best affect those behaviors in the moment, i.e., during the round?

Honesty, keywords and mimicking other fighters.
First off all I've got to be relaxed after training and honest enough to see what I am truly doing. I have a habit of relying on my hand and foot speed to avoid having to truly "fight" and work hard that catches up to me against fast footed pressure fighters with good head movement. So during a round I'll tell myself to "fight" and "work hard" and I'll try to mimick Duran.