Harvard Classics

[boozeboxer]

A saddo book club!!!!

Quilts are next, I'll get you in on that one.

I have tons of print-out patterns for you guys.

Do you have a mighty mike pattern?

If MIghty Mike is in the shape of a penis.

[killersheep]

A saddo book club!!!!

Quilts are next, I'll get you in on that one.

I have tons of print-out patterns for you guys.

Do you have a mighty mike pattern?

If MIghty Mike is in the shape of a penis.

I think I like this quilt club idea!

[Andre]

Ben Franklin's autobiography is the roots of the American dream, starting with nothing and then making it big. If you're interested I can mail it to you when I'm done.

That would be awesome man...I'm very interested in learning about the Founding Fathers whether it's their political views or just their overall outlook on life. I'm also quite interested in the Founders that were Freemasons as well as I'm currently trying to join that group.

Have you been invited by one?

Why do you wish to join them Lyle?

Im just reading about some of it myself but more for a linking up of information kind of a way.

Briefly;

Their origins are from the order of The Poor Soldiers of Christ and Solomon's Temple. (The Knights Templar) Founded in 1118 of French origin.

It seems there were rifts over the years specially during the late 1300's to early 1400's.
Pope Clement was made Pope by King Phillip (the fair) only fair in complextion they say ,he was King at 17 years of age and inherited great debt from previous wars.

He raised taxes four fold on the Lombards and the Jews and so was in direct conflict with Pope Bonaface the vIII. (whom he had killed).
Anyway on the 21st June 1306 He had all Jews arrested and all their moneyies and properties stolen.
This removed one creditor.

After Phillip had the last two Popes killed,(Boniface the 8th and Benidict the X1 th) He he then placed Clement there as Pope himself!

These two together, eventually used the rift between the Knights Templar and the St John knights Hospitalliers as a roose to get the leader of the Knights Templar to a meeting to amalgamate the two .

The Leader of the St Johns ( William de Villlaret) had other business (overseeing the Order into Rodes) and couldn't attend!


( I believe right here is one reason why there remains a rift between some Lodges)

Anyway; while Jack De Molay was travelling from Cypres to France for this meeting to be in attendance to this new decree by Rome with 60 or so Knights and much Gold for the next crusade into the Holy Land, Phillip was busy back in France plotting the Templars demise.

Jack did not go to Poiters where the Pope was residing and waiting but went to Paris first and deposited all of the gold they were carrying into the Templar precepitory on arrival.

Phillip had raised taxes and all sorts in order to get himself out of debt.
He first attacked the French Jews and then went onto more collections fromthe Lombards etc: The Parisians rioted as they do in such circumstances and Phillipe had to take cover. (he went to the Knights templars for protection and recieved it by order from the Pope (who the Templars were only answerable to at that stage.)

So to go back one step here sorry .. Phillipe had once tried to become a member of the Knights Templar but was refused admission.

(Smart boys )..the KT's

So now he plotted their demise from within their own walls and that is how he claimed to know that they used black arts and the likes , homosexual practices and such.

(All MAde up of course) The reason being that the KT were the financiers behind many of the Kings own creditors (Who he couldnt pay back anyway).
Rome also was near (cash bankruptcy) due to their use of mercenary armies in order to enlarge their Empire. So they had lands / countries ,but no means to maintain the size of what they had gained and keep Rome in living how it had become seasoned to live.

So Phillipe and Clement had made their pact with the Devil.


The few surviving Templars after Romes and Frances actions of October 13th 1307 (Unlucky Friday the 13th)
(the ones that sailed all their ships out of port and headed with all the Gold and the sacred stones etc sailed out that evening and headed for the west coast of Argyle to go into hiding. It seems that eventually these survivors were indoctrinated into the Scottish Masonry lines in order for Robert the Bruce to be able to tell Rome in complete honesty that no Templars existed within Scotland.

The Templars then went about their own business as per usual.

The Battle of Bannockburn was won in a very unusual way if you read that history.A section of Knights appeared on the flanks and just the sight of these men made the British run out of orders and be taken down.

It is there that I believe a rift between the lodges of England and Scotland were made.

It still exists to this day between some, so choose your sides well. You will find not only a variation between lodges history and educated guess work but general history as given to the public by church,royalty and state is not 100% true either.

[El Kabong]

Jesus Andre did you have to write a novel?

First off the Freemasons don't recruit, they don't ask you to join you have to come of your own free will. They always say "To be one, ask one".

Secondly I would like to join because they are a Fraternal Order that does a lot of good for a lot of people...my grandmother for example had an ailment when she was a child and she was taken to the Shriner (you've got to be a Mason to be a Shriner) Hospital and surgeries were performed at no cost to her or her parents. And part of me wants to provide the service and charity to other sick children and I also feel that civic groups like the Freemason's, Civitans, Odd Fellows, Kiwanis, Moose Lodge, and Elks Lodge are a benefit to the community and they used to be such a staple of communities as well and that's kind of fallen by the wayside.

Oh also, my Great Grandfather was a Freemason and 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason.

Are you reading 'Born in Blood' Andre?

[Andre]

No, the book: Cracking the Freemasons code.' the truth about Solomons Key'.By Robert Cooper the curator of the Scottish Grand lodge.

Oh I don't know Lyle, could it have been edited down any shorter? You said you were interested in their fore fathers and foundations.

I thought I did well briefing it right down for you without giving the ball away.
( I do leave big lines in between what I write Lyle, so my own writings are not even as long as some your own offerings to be found concerning the political front.

I have been asked a few times why dont I join..you know, being from a long line of English Stonemasons who have worked for Royalty etc, I suppose some friends thought I maybe interested.

Was Da Vinci involved with them at all do you Know? He isnt in the list of famous Masons. It is him, his works and a few others through history I am interested in more than anyone else.
Going by his drawing "Leonardo's canon" of the man with his arms and legs out stretched and the sacred geometry around it he could not : 'NOT have known' about something in which he drew there and therefore in my mind must of practiced by knowing. (I have no idea if Freemasonry practices what it is I am talking about, but I know some remaining Templar organizations that do mention it.

Its another fascinating pathway in any case. Good luck with it all Lyle.

[El Kabong]

I didn't mean to give you such a hard time Andre its just I'm on my phone and that took a while to scroll through.

According to numerous sources the Freemasons became "public" as in average people knew about them starting in 1717 so I am not certain if Da Vinci was a Mason. A large number of the Founding Fathers of the United States were Masons: George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Hancock, I think at least 23 signers of the Declaration of Independence were Masons.

Its a fascinating organization and they do a lot of good....I have no idea why certain groups or countries despise them so other than they are scared because they don't understand it.

[Andre]

Sugar Ray and Jack Dempsey too.

[El Kabong]

Sugar Ray and Jack Dempsey too.

Oh yeah well I'd say from the 1920's to the 1950's damn near anybody who was anybody was a member of a club, lodge, or brotherhood like the Masons.