Duran-DeJesus III

[marbleheadmaui]

Duran was a great fighter but what a saw in the Leonard rematch as that he could be out boxed.

LOL, yeah. By one of the 15 or so greatest fighters and top 3 welters ever to lace'm up!

That's like saying a baseball player couldn't hit a fastball because he couldn't hit Sandy Koufax's

[Mr140]

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

[marbleheadmaui]

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

A TERRIBLE loss. No question.

[Violent Demise]

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

[marbleheadmaui]

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

The problem with that line of thinking is Duran had a whole second prime didn't he? I mean from Laing he went on to beat Cuevas, Moore, go the distance with marvin and beat the Blade!

[Violent Demise]

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

The problem with that line of thinking is Duran had a whole second prime didn't he? I mean from Laing he went on to beat Cuevas, Moore, go the distance with marvin and beat the Blade!

Uh no. Duran's last peak prime was over after the Palomino fight. After that it started leaving him. After the 2nd Leonard fight it was gone. Once it leaves it doesn't come back. After 73 career fights how can it? But just cuz a fighter isn't in his prime doesn't mean he can't be successful. His success later on against Moore, Hagler and Cuevas only point to how great the man truly was. And how strong his will and heart are when motivated. When is the key word. A lot of a past his prime fighters continued success comes from fitness and motivation. Since he can no longer do what he once could and his skills can no longer cover up any mistake he made, he must work harder and stay motivated. It's pretty obvious the Duran that faced Laing wasn't in top shape or even motivated

[marbleheadmaui]

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

The problem with that line of thinking is Duran had a whole second prime didn't he? I mean from Laing he went on to beat Cuevas, Moore, go the distance with marvin and beat the Blade!

Uh no. Duran's last peak prime was over after the Palomino fight. After that it started leaving him. After the 2nd Leonard fight it was gone. Once it leaves it doesn't come back. After 73 career fights how can it? But just cuz a fighter isn't in his prime doesn't mean he can't be successful. His success later on against Moore, Hagler and Cuevas only point to how great the man truly was. And how strong his will and heart are when motivated. When is the key word. A lot of a past his prime fighters continued success comes from fitness and motivation. Since he can no longer do what he once could and his skills can no longer cover up any mistake he made, he must work harder and stay motivated. It's pretty obvious the Duran that faced Laing wasn't in top shape or even motivated

I think you and I use a different terminology. I agree Duran was NEVER again at his PEAK once he left the lightweights. But I'm not sure it is possible for a non-prime fighter to fight a top 5 all-time guy 25 pounds higher to a standstill except by being in his prime. I sort of think bt definition it can't happen. I think Duran's greatness is somewhat the result of being able to compete at a world class level (one definition of prime) for what? 20 years? Marcel to the Blade?

[THE THIRD MAN]

Duran reigned supreme throughout the 70's as a Lightweight culminating with his bullish performance over a somewhat over awed Sugar Ray Leonard in their first fight at WW. That was the final time we really saw the Hands Of Stone at his peak, De Jesus was there as Duran's arch enemy at Lightweight and deserves full credit for not only beating Duran once, but competing like no other fighter could against Duran at his peak.

I just re watched Duran V Leonard 1, check out the pre fight ref instructions, Duran looks totally focused, totally committed to what was about to unfold, Leonard looks almost resigned to the fact he will lose this fight, (look for wry smile) He came out flat footed and IMO not prepared for the tornado that was Roberto Duran. Esteban De Jesus did well against Duran because he was not intimidated or scared of him. The stroke of real genius from Leonard after this fight was obtaining a rematch so soon after the brawl in Montreal, knowing fully well Duran would not be prepared. The biggest mistake of Roberto Duran's career.

[Mr140]

Leonard was dumb in the first fight should of just boxed would of won it like the rematch.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

He still is one of the greatest of all time. He's just under the likes of Leonard, Armstrong, Gans, Williams, Ortiz, Duran and Canzoneri. He's an easy top 15 pick all time imo.

I was thinking of a guy today to get the younguns who don't know Dejesus to understand how good he was. The name I came up with? Juan Manuel Marquez.
Waddya think? Is that more or less fair?

Yeah that's a good comparison. Especially the mentality. One of the reasons Marquez does well against Pacquiao is the same reason Dejesus did well against Duran. He wasn't scared of him. Duran at lightweight was an intimidating fighter. But Dejesus had no fear of him.

Hmmm. This conversation certainly got me thinking...

Precursor to the Pac/ Marquez rubber-match much?

[marbleheadmaui]

Leonard was dumb in the first fight should of just boxed would of won it like the rematch.

Leonard wasn't dumb, he fell into a trap laid by Duran. What happened is all that matters.

[Gallegos Boxing Gym]

DeJesus was a very good fighter. Anyone who knows anything about this sport can readily witness his excellence jumping off the screen.

I think his exclusion from the Hall of Fame is correct, however. His actual accomplishments are more on par, in my mind, with a Terrence Alli or someone of that ilk. That could be overstating it a bit, but I don't think he's near any of the top 5 PR fighters.

The win over Duran looms large, perhaps more than any non-title win over a champ in history. I don't see any other fighter's career buoyed by such a win to the level DeJesus enjoys. He beat several leading lightweights--the Johnny Gants and Ray Lampkins of the world. A nice run as WBC champ, too. Throw in wins with Viruet, Peppermint, Guts Ishimatsu, Yamabe. A good career? You bet.

But! He was never the best in his weight class, never won a genuine championship, and loses any sentimental mojo by being an apparent scumbag as a person. It's not often I side with the Canastota Crew, but they got this one right.

[johnsebastianmiran]

I saw that fight on the day it happened and I underestimated Duran's boxing skills until that fight. I must have watched it ten times and said to myself what an adjustment. Duran was a great fighter but don't forget one thing, Dejesus skill, courage and fortitude made Duran go through the rites of greatness. To be great you have to demonstrate to those equally great that you deserve their respect and Duran got it even past his prime.

[THE THIRD MAN]

YouTube - ‪Esteban DeJesus Knocks Down ROBERTO DURAN‬‏


Look at that left hook, Duran is all over the place, he shakes his head, he is shocked!

[JazMerkin]

DeJesus was a very good fighter. Anyone who knows anything about this sport can readily witness his excellence jumping off the screen.

I think his exclusion from the Hall of Fame is correct, however. His actual accomplishments are more on par, in my mind, with a Terrence Alli or someone of that ilk. That could be overstating it a bit, but I don't think he's near any of the top 5 PR fighters.

The win over Duran looms large, perhaps more than any non-title win over a champ in history. I don't see any other fighter's career buoyed by such a win to the level DeJesus enjoys. He beat several leading lightweights--the Johnny Gants and Ray Lampkins of the world. A nice run as WBC champ, too. Throw in wins with Viruet, Peppermint, Guts Ishimatsu, Yamabe. A good career? You bet.

But! He was never the best in his weight class, never won a genuine championship, and loses any sentimental mojo by being an apparent scumbag as a person. It's not often I side with the Canastota Crew, but they got this one right.

Interesting take, I happen to disagree, as being competitive with Duran in the way he was & beating some credible contenders makes him deserving for me, although there are maybe a few other absentees who would get in ahead of him for me.