Fighters that you (controversially) think are overrated

[marbleheadmaui]

You should learn more about the lower divisions, Donaire has beaten a lot of good fighters, and you can see just based on what he does in the ring that he is an amazing fighter.

Sergio Martinez is starting earn my respect. I'm not sure how high I would rank him because I never thought much of Paul Williams, but I definitely think his last fight and his fight against Pavlik put him way up the p4p list.

Also Kostya Tszyu beat a lot of good fighters, Roger Mayweather, JCC, prime Sharmba MItchell. He, also, is a great fighter, and you can see it when he fights. Great technique, power, and boxing savy.

It's guys like Juan Manuel Lopez, Margarito, Pavlik, Soto, Mares, Mijares who have been so overhyped IMO.

Not that he isn't great but even Evander Holyfield I think is vastly overrated. I think he was a ATG for sure, but not a top 50 type guy like they rank him. I can't think of a modern era where he would have ruled the heavyweight division. I think Ali, Foreman, Larry Holmes, prime Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Klitschko brothers beat him far more often than not.... except maybe Tyson.

What gets Evander that kind of ranking as much as anything else are his wins over Qawi and the widely held perception he is the greatest cruiser we have had.

[marbleheadmaui]

I agree with all so far (just to what degree still tbc).

What about Jack Dempsey? Huge draw, shit boxer.

How do you figure "shit" boxer? He was Cus's model in building Mike Tyson. (aren't you a Tyson guy?)

[marbleheadmaui]

I agree with all so far (just to what degree still tbc).

What about Jack Dempsey? Huge draw, shit boxer.

Sort of like your brain?

Drop the grudge. What are you, a teenage girl? Seriously... The title of the thread suggests I should be contraversial..? So...

Anyway, yeah Dempsey was a massive hype job. He was like Americas Ricky Hatton... Or Juio Cesar Chavez?

REALLY? I mean other than Harry Wills? Who the hell should Dempsey have fought that he didn't? I mean he beat EVERYBODY and he did so with a level of aggression, speed and technique never before seen in a heavy!

I thought you wee a Tyson guy? As near as I can figure one cannot logically be a rabid fan of one without the other.

[El Kabong]

Riddick Bowe - thinnest resume of any true heavyweight champion...maybe in the history of boxing when you look at who he could have fought and who he chose to fight.

[marbleheadmaui]

Riddick Bowe - thinnest resume of any true heavyweight champion...maybe in the history of boxing when you look at who he could have fought and who he chose to fight.

Bowe is one of those "I saw him with my eyes" guys.

On one of his best three nights (about all he had) he gives any heavyweight in history a battle.

Any other night? eer, um, not so much

[El Kabong]

Riddick Bowe - thinnest resume of any true heavyweight champion...maybe in the history of boxing when you look at who he could have fought and who he chose to fight.

Bowe is one of those "I saw him with my eyes" guys.

On one of his best three nights (about all he had) he gives any heavyweight in history a battle.

Any other night? eer, um, not so much

Lennox Lewis manhandled him in the amateurs and Bowe never fought anyone that was all that great of a puncher. People think the Klitschko's have a size advantage now...just look at who Bowe fought! Holyfield and Golota guys much smaller than Riddick gave him absolute hell. Had Bowe fought Mercer, Morrison, Moorer, Tyson(yes even after prison), Briggs, Ruddock et al he more than likely would have lost and lost by KO! Bowe had size and he had skill but he was very flawed as well.

Arturo Gatti is overrated in his skill from his many battles but as a blood and guts warrior not many measure up to him.

[Mars_ax]

Riddick Bowe - thinnest resume of any true heavyweight champion...maybe in the history of boxing when you look at who he could have fought and who he chose to fight.

Andrew Golota took the wind out of Bowe's sails, he never seemed to be the same after that. I always thought Bowe had tons of potential, but never lived up to it, he also seemed to have a phobia about fighting Lennox Lewis, which was hard to figure.

[Mars_ax]

BTW, Holyfield was definitely not overrated at HW, he arguably fought the best competition of almost any HW, and held his own, and I can't think of a single HW in the history of boxing that had as much heart.

As for B-Hop, if anything he's underrated.

As for Tyson, a bit overrated perhaps, but it was more due to things that happened outside the ring, like being in prison for 3 years.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

It's very hard to take a thread like this seriously when you start with a guy who was best of his time for 10 years, was undisputed champion and fought 16 world champions (50% of all opponents he faced) beating a former world champion in just his 4th pro fight!

On that logic of Tszyu losing to Phillips you might as well include Carlos Monzon who lost to a guy called Felipe Cambeiro 43-16-4 in 1964 knocking Monzon down 3 times along the way. I guess Monzon is over rated
Or Alexis Arguello who inexplicably lost to Vilomar Fernadez 30-16-2 in 1977 after stringing togther 26 consecutive wins since his previous defeat!

My point is fighters lose fights, it's how they come back from defeat that makes them real champions. Tszyu was remarkable after losing to Phillips, he dominated a division that at one time was lauded as the best in the world, it is only years later that people say it wasn't that strong? He destroys former lightweight Champion Miguel Angel Gonzalez (who defended that title 10 times) and was fresh from fights with DLH and a draw with JCC, he KO's Judah who was in his prime and a prohibitive favourite, he stops Mitchell (twice) who had not lost for 7 years prior and all this means he is overrated?

What a shame fighters such as Hamed and Hatton decided to take their bat and ball and go home after tasting defeat.

[BIG H]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

It's very hard to take a thread like this seriously when you start with a guy who was best of his time for 10 years, was undisputed champion and fought 16 world champions (50% of all opponents he faced) beating a former world champion in just his 4th pro fight!

On that logic of Tszyu losing to Phillips you might as well include Carlos Monzon who lost to a guy called Felipe Cambeiro 43-16-4 in 1964 knocking Monzon down 3 times along the way. I guess Monzon is over rated
Or Alexis Arguello who inexplicably lost to Vilomar Fernadez 30-16-2 in 1977 after stringing togther 26 consecutive wins since his previous defeat!

My point is fighters lose fights, it's how they come back from defeat that makes them real champions. Tszyu was remarkable after losing to Phillips, he dominated a division that at one time was lauded as the best in the world, it is only years later that people say it wasn't that strong? He destroys former lightweight Champion Miguel Angel Gonzalez (who defended that title 10 times) and was fresh from fights with DLH and a draw with JCC, he KO's Judah who was in his prime and a prohibitive favourite, he stops Mitchell (twice) who had not lost for 7 years prior and all this means he is overrated?

What a shame fighters such as Hamed and Hatton decided to take their bat and ball and go home after tasting defeat.

It's very hard to take a response seriously that comes from an Australian

It's just opinions mate, I think he was brillaint, but still overrated.

And a petty Tszyu didn't pick up his bat and ball after losing to Hatton He was still realtively young had had less fights than Hatton (even at that point) and had not exactly been in many wars in order to make him a worn fighter

[THE THIRD MAN]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

It's very hard to take a thread like this seriously when you start with a guy who was best of his time for 10 years, was undisputed champion and fought 16 world champions (50% of all opponents he faced) beating a former world champion in just his 4th pro fight!

On that logic of Tszyu losing to Phillips you might as well include Carlos Monzon who lost to a guy called Felipe Cambeiro 43-16-4 in 1964 knocking Monzon down 3 times along the way. I guess Monzon is over rated
Or Alexis Arguello who inexplicably lost to Vilomar Fernadez 30-16-2 in 1977 after stringing togther 26 consecutive wins since his previous defeat!

My point is fighters lose fights, it's how they come back from defeat that makes them real champions. Tszyu was remarkable after losing to Phillips, he dominated a division that at one time was lauded as the best in the world, it is only years later that people say it wasn't that strong? He destroys former lightweight Champion Miguel Angel Gonzalez (who defended that title 10 times) and was fresh from fights with DLH and a draw with JCC, he KO's Judah who was in his prime and a prohibitive favourite, he stops Mitchell (twice) who had not lost for 7 years prior and all this means he is overrated?

What a shame fighters such as Hamed and Hatton decided to take their bat and ball and go home after tasting defeat.

It's very hard to take a response seriously that comes from an Australian

It's just opinions mate, I think he was brillaint, but still overrated.

And a petty Tszyu didn't pick up his bat and ball after losing to Hatton He was still realtively young had had less fights than Hatton (even at that point) and had not exactly been in many wars in order to make him a worn fighter

He was 36 in 2005 and was in the ring for just 3 rounds in the preceding 36 months since January 2003! Injuries and age caught up with him and he still gave the fatboy a nice old touch up (see Hatton's face after fight) Hatton's tactics of using Tszyu's balls as earrings worked perfectly. Hatton was never the same again after this fight. I rate Tszyu 2nd only to "not that bottle" Aaron Pryor as the best 140lb champion ever. Do we say that Sugar Shane Mosley is over rated? His record since 2002 reads 17- 8-7-1 with 1 NC, hardly scintillating stuff from the sugarman? Yet, he will be forever regarded as one of the best Lightweight champions of all time, do we reassess his opponents and base our viewpoint about Mosley solely on his first win against DLH?

[eagle]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

[BIG H]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

[eagle]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

[BIG H]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Lol - I'll post my reasons later when I am not busy.