No marvin hagler

[Mr140]

Well Pavlik was a good champ had some good wins a while ago but since the lose to Hopkins his mental been fucked. Paul in the first fight i thought did enough to win it Martinez good fighter but eh i dont know.

[Rantcatrat]

Well Pavlik was a good champ had some good wins a while ago but since the lose to Hopkins his mental been fucked. Paul in the first fight i thought did enough to win it Martinez good fighter but eh i dont know.

Pavlik beat Rubio after he lost to Hopkins.

[Kev]

That's hardly a fair comparison though. Besides Hagler was a career middleweight whereas Martinez started out at welterweight. He's obviously not as good a middleweight champ as Hagler but he's still very decent, and it would have been fun to see him against the middleweight Duran.

I'm warming to him. He's a very good fighter imo.

I don't think he's a true top 3 p4p caliber fighter generally, but right now, with most of the top guys of the last 10 years or so retiring or on the decline he is pretty much the third best fighter after Mayweather and Pacquiao imo.

If you discount the Klitschko's as they are heavyweights, he's as dominant a champ in his weight class as it's possible to be right now.

Mayweather, Pacquiao, Martinez and Donaire pretty much deserve their current status as the top 4 now imo, although I do think both Martinez, and especially Donaire, were credited with it too soon.

If B Hop manages to beat Bad Chad in a fortnight however I might well put him back up at 3 as his resume in the sport is exceptional.

Right, not a fair comparison at all, since Sergio hasn't been a Middleweight most of his career.

As for the current P4P rankings, Martinez should be ranked 2nd or 3rd, depending on if you like him better than Donaire. Mayweather, because of his inactivity the last 5 years, should not even be in the P4P rankings, that's an insult to Pugs who fight regularly.

I sorta agree with you there. Why does a win over Ortiz merit instant #2 p4p status? Ortiz is the same guy that quit against Maidana and drew against Peterson. He was a mega underdog. But, that's a different thread.

Clearly, Martinez is no Marvin Hagler. However, he is the current lineal middleweight champion. My only thing is that beating Barker and Lee or Macklin are good wins but not great. The only way Sergio overtakes Pacquiao or Mayweather in my opinion is if he beats them (which won't happen because they won't fight him), they lose, or he goes up and beats Bute at 166, which I also believe won't happen because Bute won't offer enough $. Cleaning out the division is the next best thing, I guess.

And the 41 wins before that. It would be an absurdity to not have Floyd at number 2 behind Manny, clearly he's the best p4p fighter in the world and has been for years. Only Manny can seriously challenge him on that front.

To have him lower, or not include to make some kind of 'point' is just stupid.

Love him or hate him Floyd is as acomplished and complete a fighter as there has been in the last 15 years.

[Mr140]

Eh rubio not really that great of a win to honest i mean kinda shows how week divsion is when you bring a name up like that. I am just saying his resume kinda week to what most have been in past.

[Mars_ax]

And the 41 wins before that. It would be an absurdity to not have Floyd at number 2 behind Manny, clearly he's the best p4p fighter in the world and has been for years. Only Manny can seriously challenge him on that front.

To have him lower, or not include to make some kind of 'point' is just stupid.

Love him or hate him Floyd is as acomplished and complete a fighter as there has been in the last 15 years.

You can think i'm stupid, but like I said, Mayweather doesn't fight often enough to be in the current P4P rankings, that's just the way I see it.

[Dia bando]

No i dont think you are stupid Floyd is a great fighter.

[Rantcatrat]

That's hardly a fair comparison though. Besides Hagler was a career middleweight whereas Martinez started out at welterweight. He's obviously not as good a middleweight champ as Hagler but he's still very decent, and it would have been fun to see him against the middleweight Duran.

I'm warming to him. He's a very good fighter imo.

I don't think he's a true top 3 p4p caliber fighter generally, but right now, with most of the top guys of the last 10 years or so retiring or on the decline he is pretty much the third best fighter after Mayweather and Pacquiao imo.

If you discount the Klitschko's as they are heavyweights, he's as dominant a champ in his weight class as it's possible to be right now.

Mayweather, Pacquiao, Martinez and Donaire pretty much deserve their current status as the top 4 now imo, although I do think both Martinez, and especially Donaire, were credited with it too soon.

If B Hop manages to beat Bad Chad in a fortnight however I might well put him back up at 3 as his resume in the sport is exceptional.

Right, not a fair comparison at all, since Sergio hasn't been a Middleweight most of his career.

As for the current P4P rankings, Martinez should be ranked 2nd or 3rd, depending on if you like him better than Donaire. Mayweather, because of his inactivity the last 5 years, should not even be in the P4P rankings, that's an insult to Pugs who fight regularly.

I sorta agree with you there. Why does a win over Ortiz merit instant #2 p4p status? Ortiz is the same guy that quit against Maidana and drew against Peterson. He was a mega underdog. But, that's a different thread.

Clearly, Martinez is no Marvin Hagler. However, he is the current lineal middleweight champion. My only thing is that beating Barker and Lee or Macklin are good wins but not great. The only way Sergio overtakes Pacquiao or Mayweather in my opinion is if he beats them (which won't happen because they won't fight him), they lose, or he goes up and beats Bute at 166, which I also believe won't happen because Bute won't offer enough $. Cleaning out the division is the next best thing, I guess.

And the 41 wins before that. It would be an absurdity to not have Floyd at number 2 behind Manny, clearly he's the best p4p fighter in the world and has been for years. Only Manny can seriously challenge him on that front.

To have him lower, or not include to make some kind of 'point' is just stupid.

Love him or hate him Floyd is as acomplished and complete a fighter as there has been in the last 15 years.

I agree with that. I just believe his wins at welterweight haven't been as impressive as his prior wins were, but the welterweight division isn't that deep so it makes sense that he is forced to fight Victor Ortiz.

[Rantcatrat]

That's hardly a fair comparison though. Besides Hagler was a career middleweight whereas Martinez started out at welterweight. He's obviously not as good a middleweight champ as Hagler but he's still very decent, and it would have been fun to see him against the middleweight Duran.

I'm warming to him. He's a very good fighter imo.

I don't think he's a true top 3 p4p caliber fighter generally, but right now, with most of the top guys of the last 10 years or so retiring or on the decline he is pretty much the third best fighter after Mayweather and Pacquiao imo.

If you discount the Klitschko's as they are heavyweights, he's as dominant a champ in his weight class as it's possible to be right now.

Mayweather, Pacquiao, Martinez and Donaire pretty much deserve their current status as the top 4 now imo, although I do think both Martinez, and especially Donaire, were credited with it too soon.

If B Hop manages to beat Bad Chad in a fortnight however I might well put him back up at 3 as his resume in the sport is exceptional.

Right, not a fair comparison at all, since Sergio hasn't been a Middleweight most of his career.

As for the current P4P rankings, Martinez should be ranked 2nd or 3rd, depending on if you like him better than Donaire. Mayweather, because of his inactivity the last 5 years, should not even be in the P4P rankings, that's an insult to Pugs who fight regularly.

I sorta agree with you there. Why does a win over Ortiz merit instant #2 p4p status? Ortiz is the same guy that quit against Maidana and drew against Peterson. He was a mega underdog. But, that's a different thread.

Clearly, Martinez is no Marvin Hagler. However, he is the current lineal middleweight champion. My only thing is that beating Barker and Lee or Macklin are good wins but not great. The only way Sergio overtakes Pacquiao or Mayweather in my opinion is if he beats them (which won't happen because they won't fight him), they lose, or he goes up and beats Bute at 166, which I also believe won't happen because Bute won't offer enough $. Cleaning out the division is the next best thing, I guess.

And the 41 wins before that. It would be an absurdity to not have Floyd at number 2 behind Manny, clearly he's the best p4p fighter in the world and has been for years. Only Manny can seriously challenge him on that front.

To have him lower, or not include to make some kind of 'point' is just stupid.

Love him or hate him Floyd is as acomplished and complete a fighter as there has been in the last 15 years.

If Sergio went up in weight and beat Lucian Bute at 166, would you move him up the list?

[Matias64]

On the other hand i've never been big fan of Haggler. "Marvelous Marvin" was never fast. His punches were heavy but not fast. He couldn't beat even old Duran and lost to Sugar Ray Leonard.

Though many people love to live in past time paradise i still argue that Haggler would be too slow for modern middleweight boxing.

[Kev]

That's hardly a fair comparison though. Besides Hagler was a career middleweight whereas Martinez started out at welterweight. He's obviously not as good a middleweight champ as Hagler but he's still very decent, and it would have been fun to see him against the middleweight Duran.

I'm warming to him. He's a very good fighter imo.

I don't think he's a true top 3 p4p caliber fighter generally, but right now, with most of the top guys of the last 10 years or so retiring or on the decline he is pretty much the third best fighter after Mayweather and Pacquiao imo.

If you discount the Klitschko's as they are heavyweights, he's as dominant a champ in his weight class as it's possible to be right now.

Mayweather, Pacquiao, Martinez and Donaire pretty much deserve their current status as the top 4 now imo, although I do think both Martinez, and especially Donaire, were credited with it too soon.

If B Hop manages to beat Bad Chad in a fortnight however I might well put him back up at 3 as his resume in the sport is exceptional.

Right, not a fair comparison at all, since Sergio hasn't been a Middleweight most of his career.

As for the current P4P rankings, Martinez should be ranked 2nd or 3rd, depending on if you like him better than Donaire. Mayweather, because of his inactivity the last 5 years, should not even be in the P4P rankings, that's an insult to Pugs who fight regularly.

I sorta agree with you there. Why does a win over Ortiz merit instant #2 p4p status? Ortiz is the same guy that quit against Maidana and drew against Peterson. He was a mega underdog. But, that's a different thread.

Clearly, Martinez is no Marvin Hagler. However, he is the current lineal middleweight champion. My only thing is that beating Barker and Lee or Macklin are good wins but not great. The only way Sergio overtakes Pacquiao or Mayweather in my opinion is if he beats them (which won't happen because they won't fight him), they lose, or he goes up and beats Bute at 166, which I also believe won't happen because Bute won't offer enough $. Cleaning out the division is the next best thing, I guess.

And the 41 wins before that. It would be an absurdity to not have Floyd at number 2 behind Manny, clearly he's the best p4p fighter in the world and has been for years. Only Manny can seriously challenge him on that front.

To have him lower, or not include to make some kind of 'point' is just stupid.

Love him or hate him Floyd is as acomplished and complete a fighter as there has been in the last 15 years.

If Sergio went up in weight and beat Lucian Bute at 166, would you move him up the list?

Well I have Sergio at 3 currently pending the Hopkins result next week.

Were he to beat Bute, that would be an outstanding win, but it wouldn't put him above Manny or Floyd as they are winning fights 4 divisions or more above their starting weight class as a matter of routine. It would undoubtably stamp his claim as a Hall of Famer and mark him out as one of boxing's elite though, below the level of Hopkins but maybe on a level with Oscar and Mosley.

[Matias64]

Well I have Sergio at 3 currently pending the Hopkins result next week.

Were he to beat Bute, that would be an outstanding win, but it wouldn't put him above Manny or Floyd as they are winning fights 4 divisions or more above their starting weight class as a matter of routine. It would undoubtably stamp his claim as a Hall of Famer and mark him out as one of boxing's elite though, below the level of Hopkins but maybe on a level with Oscar and Mosley.

It's much easier to win fights in 4 division when these are 130-147 lbs than those of 154-175 lbs. Or lets say heavy, cruiser, lightheavy and supermiddleweight.

You can compare swimmer Phelps winning tens of olympic gold metals to those of Bekele or Usain Bolt.

[Mr140]

Eh the more i look at Serigos record as a whole more i see how week it really is i still dont have a problem with his position. All i am saying is if Hopkins wins no doubt he should be above him.

[Rantcatrat]

Eh the more i look at Serigos record as a whole more i see how week it really is i still dont have a problem with his position. All I am saying is if Hopkins wins no doubt he should be above him.

If Hopkins wins, he should probably be above him and the only way I could see Martinez regaining that position is if he went up in weight to beat Bute or beat Mayweather or Pacquiao at 154. Would unifying all the belts at middleweight do it?

[Kev]

Well I have Sergio at 3 currently pending the Hopkins result next week.

Were he to beat Bute, that would be an outstanding win, but it wouldn't put him above Manny or Floyd as they are winning fights 4 divisions or more above their starting weight class as a matter of routine. It would undoubtably stamp his claim as a Hall of Famer and mark him out as one of boxing's elite though, below the level of Hopkins but maybe on a level with Oscar and Mosley.

It's much easier to win fights in 4 division when these are 130-147 lbs than those of 154-175 lbs. Or lets say heavy, cruiser, lightheavy and supermiddleweight.

You can compare swimmer Phelps winning tens of olympic gold metals to those of Bekele or Usain Bolt.

Who are you talking about having gone from 130-147 though? Manny has gone from 106 to a catchweight at 150 and Floyd has gone from 130-154.

Martinez has gone from 147 to 160.

So Manny has risen 42 lbs
Floyd 24lbs
Martinez 13 lbs

[johnsebastianmiran]

I think Martinez has come along fine for a late bloomer but Hagler's resume is one earned with blood and sweat. Martinez has to break a sweat just to look at Marvin's accomplishments.