Calzaghe vs Jones Jr or Mayweather v Mosley?

[Dark Lord Al]

So do you let Calzaghe finish in your mouth or are his hands too brittle for that so you just take it in the ass like a true brit!

Racist! I shall not defeat you - I shall transcend you.

By the way someone saying the word BRIT as an insult isnt racist ,

[ICB]

I revisted some of Joe Calzaghe's best wins vs Woodhall, Reid, then i checked out Reid's and Woodhall's last fight before they fought Joe Calzaghe, and they both looked bad. Robin Reid was absolute sh** vs Thulani Malinga. And Richie Woodhall was floored 3 times and lucky to survive against feather fisted Markus Beyer.

It seems to be a pattern with most of Joe Calzaghe's best wins, that his opponents were coming off losses or bad performances. With the exception of Mikkel Kessler and the overrated Jeff Lacy.

As for the thread pretty simple Shane Mosley was coming off bashing up Margarito, Mayorga, and had good performances vs Collazo, Cotto.

Roy Jones Jr was coming off beating a 3 year retired Welterweight Trinidad, beating average opposition Hanshaw, Ajamu. And 3 bad back to back losses Tarver x2, Johnson.

Hence Shane Mosley was clearly the fighter in better form, which means a better win for Floyd Mayweather Jr pretty simple.

[IamInuit]

Look nobody here can say that Joe Calzaghe ducked anyone at 168. If you can then name the person. I think Roy would have beaten him but he was already well into 175. Maybe a prime Eubanks beats him I don't know but Calzaghe like it or lump is the greatest super mid that ever lived. Lacy at the time was billed as a destroyer of worlds and after Joe thumped the shit out of him he was a bum or overrated. Next came Kessler, the savior of the division and Joe made him look rather pedestrian. Years later this Kessler beat Froch and went close with the latest coming of Christ in Ward.

Margarito was done completely after the inserts were discovered. Might as well given the man a lobotomy and sent him out to fight.

Floyds win over Shane is no greater then Joe's over Roy. Equal in insignificance.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Robin Reid was absolute sh** vs Thulani Malinga.

Reid was an odd fighter who could be very good or very bad. Consider:

Reid won his world title away in Italy beating WBC champ Nardiello (Who holds a win over malinga BTW!)

Beat future WBC MW champ Cherifi when unwell. Thats Cherifi who went on to beat K Holmes

Beat top 10 world rated SMW Henry Wharton (Who pushed Nigel Benn all the way in a very close encounter!)

Beat undefeated Magee who is now WBA INT champ

Reid was robbed blind vs Ottke

If Reid was not deducted and faced such a poor bias ref he would have been a two time, three belt winning world champion..Another guy Calzaghe fought who was a top contender who often goes unoticed or ignored by guys from the US cause many never watched the guy. I suggest Reid vs Malinga was more robin reid having an off night, Rather than him being shit!!

And Richie Woodhall was floored 3 times and lucky to survive against feather fisted Markus Beyer

Woodhall rallied late in the fight and came close to stopping Beyer! And even with the KD's it was close on the cards! Woodhall boxed well regardless of the knock downs.

I think u will find that Woodhall was a talented fightert medalling behind RJ at the olympic games. He also comprehensively outboxed Malinga who beat Nigel Benn, Silvio Branco who schooled glenn johnson, Future World Champion Glenn Catley and former World Champ Vincenzo Nardiello! JC took it easy on his friend ritchie too!

It seems to be a pattern with most of Joe Calzaghe's best wins, that his opponents were coming off losses or bad performances. With the exception of Mikkel Kessler and the overrated Jeff Lacy.

-Jones beat Trinidad and defeated Lacy post.

-Hopkins beat Tarver/Wright and defeated Pavlik/Pascal post

-Eubank lost 2 DODGY decisons pre and post JC (one in the fighters home town!)

-Mitchell is a 2X WBA SMW champ who beat #1 ranked frankie Liles (something andre Ward is praised for doing)! Liles beat michael nunn!! Mitchell was rated in the ring mag SMW top ten for 5 years. He was 25-2 with 1 draw at the time he fought joe, his 2 losses (to men like bruno girard who was a WBA SMW and LHW champion) were debateable decisions too. It is not that as clear cut as just saying they we4e coming off losses...This is Otke we are dealing with!! Mitchell, Reid and Brewer All defeated otke in most ppls eyes! In fact Brewer probaly beat Otke twice! He also ended the career of Herol Graham and put echols down 3 times in 1 round!

-Brewer probaly beat Otke twice! He also ended the career of Herol Graham and put echols down 3 times in 1 round!

-Bikas Losses and Draws prior to joe were all debateable too!

As for the thread pretty simple Shane Mosley was coming off bashing up Margarito, Mayorga, and had good performances vs Collazo, Cotto.

And did what after? Mora LOL.

A 40 YR old Mosley fighting Floyd @ WW is ridiculous! He hadn't fought at 147 for 3 years! Also note Mosley has barely been legible in his interviews for years.

Roy Jones Jr was coming off beating a 3 year retired Welterweight Trinidad, beating average opposition Hanshaw, Ajamu. And 3 bad back to back losses Tarver x2, Johnson.

Re grouped, adapted his body back to 175 properly and produced this:
.






Still plenty left. Go watch hopkins squirming against him. More inconsistant but still capable of world class boxing.

Hence Shane Mosley was clearly the fighter in better form, which means a better win for Floyd Mayweather Jr pretty simple

How do u explain the Mora draw then?

[imp]

Bando, just answer this, was JC performance against jones a masterpiece and a defining moment in JC career?

Yes, there will always be question marks over JC opposition but he has achieved a great deal.

Would i prefer to have had roy jones career or JC?

Its got to be roy jones because he was a pound for pound champion and would have been a serious threat and a far better boxer than JC.

Roy went through four divisons and yes he did beat a heavyweight ruiz who beat holyfield and then came down again and beat tarver!

Look at the journey and risks Roy put his body through to achieve all this!

JC is undefeated. He is a great boxer with amazing handspeed and duracell battery stamina and when i watched him fight kessler i wanted him to loose but found myself so impressed with his movement and boxing that im glad he won, but cant you see whats happening with the protege' nathan cleverly..its history repeating itself.

[IamInuit]

Jones was done when he fought Cal.
Shane was done when he fought Floyd.
It matters not how Shane looked against a man that was busted before he entered the ring. Or lobotomized.
Shane and Floyd at lightweight would have been something else before he jumped for Oscar.
Would have been nice to see Roy hang at 168 a little longer and fight Cal.
Both fights mean squat really.

[Dia bando]

Bando, just answer this, was JC performance against jones a masterpiece and a defining moment in JC career?

Yes, there will always be question marks over JC opposition but he has achieved a great deal.

Would i prefer to have had roy jones career or JC?

Its got to be roy jones because he was a pound for pound champion and would have been a serious threat and a far better boxer than JC.

Roy went through four divisons and yes he did beat a heavyweight ruiz who beat holyfield and then came down again and beat tarver!

Look at the journey and risks Roy put his body through to achieve all this!

JC is undefeated. He is a great boxer with amazing handspeed and duracell battery stamina and when i watched him fight kessler i wanted him to loose but found myself so impressed with his movement and boxing that im glad he won, but cant you see whats happening with the protege' nathan cleverly..its history repeating itself.

I go for Joe, because he new it was time to walk away, Roy on the other hand great fighter damages
himself, and his great carer by carrying on.

[imp]

This thread is stupid.
Not excusing JC skillset but every boxing fan knows why JC chose that time to fight roy jones. Its pretty obvious.
No real JC fan talks of the jones fight as a classic or amazing fight like you do.
Get real fella.
Roy owns jc at prime.
Floyd owns mosely at prime..mosely had an everlasting toothache first time floyds name was mentioned as an opponent back in the day.

[imp]

Pathetic.
Ignore JC good wins against kessler and perhaps an overrated lacy lets just worship the fact he beat a 4 divison legend.
Got to give JC credit for some of his achievements but roy wasnt one of them.

[armyash]

I like Calzaghe but if I remember right he even said in his book that he wouldn't fight Jones because of his age i think?

Why didn't he go over sooner to tackle elite opposition.

Watching the Lacy fight was great, he might have been over rated with hindsight but that's not fair. Everyone thought he was a monster but Calzaghe humiliated him, Lacy showed a big heart but nothing else. Lacy was ruined after that night, a bit like Vargas post Trinidad except Vargas I feel kept it together for the DLH fight but then got lazy. Never really looked in good shape again.

Will give Calzaghe big respect for the Kessler win, Kessler is still amongst the best in the division now.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I like Calzaghe but if I remember right he even said in his book that he wouldn't fight Jones because of his age i think?

Hopkins following JC v RJ stated he didn't want a second jones fight! Fighters say a lot!

Why didn't he go over sooner to tackle elite opposition.

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear"

- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

Its 2002 and hopkins had beat trinidad 10 months before and then beat carl daniels 5 months ago. Having cleared out one of the worst middleweight era's in living memory, hopkins received a career high payday offer of $3m to fight joe calzaghe at 168. Hopkins then deliberately prices himself out of the fight with calzaghe and instead goes on to fight 3 mediocre opponents in hakkar, joppy, and robert allan. for those 3 fights combined, hopkins earnt less than he would have earnt for one single fight with joe calzaghe.

The positive aspects for hopkins to fight calzaghe were:

- Career high payday
- Becoming the man in 2 weight divisions
- The fight would be in america
- The fact that bernard could easily adjust to the weight seen as hopkins fought 20 of his first 21 fights above the middleweight limit of 160

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him. His last 2 opponents (Jones and Bhop) practically taunted him into a fight! Why would he refuse?? He was way past his best anyway.

As for the likes of Glen johnson...He was never in calzaghe's league. Want the story on that one too?

[imp]

Beating roy jones looks good on the cv.
100 years from now when we are gone the history books will say JC beat roy jones.
And hopefully this same discussion will be argued out on forums.
Thats what it was all about.
JC had the best chance ever to beat roy and he took it..roy must have known this.
Your mindframe is different when you have achieved all you need to in boxing.

[Beanflicker]

Mayweather over Mosley was the bigger victory by a country mile. Mosley's stock had skyrocketed at the time with his win over Margarito. He was a legitimate fight for Floyd, both ranking-wise and stylistically, as a lot of people felt Mosley's speed and power would give Floyd fits.

No one bought Roy as a serious contender at that point in his career. The fight was a joke. "Well they didn't fight when they were in their primes at 168, so lets have them fight now." Meaningless fight IMO.

[Fenster]

Mayweather over Mosley was the bigger victory by a country mile. Mosley's stock had skyrocketed at the time with his win over Margarito. He was a legitimate fight for Floyd, both ranking-wise and stylistically, as a lot of people felt Mosley's speed and power would give Floyd fits.

No one bought Roy as a serious contender at that point in his career. The fight was a joke. "Well they didn't fight when they were in their primes at 168, so lets have them fight now." Meaningless fight IMO.

Actually that's not true. Lots of "experts" and tons of fans picked Roy to win (don't shoot the messenger, but this can be backed up with evidence, just saying).

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Bhop: "Jones by unanimous decision based on his speed and power."

Lewis: "Jones has unbelievable speed and Calzaghe's never fought anyone like him. Jones likes it when his opponent comes to him and unfortunately for Calzaghe, that's exactly what he does; comes to his opponent and is right in their face. I pick Jones on points, but I think it'll be a very close fight."

Lacy: "It's going to be a hard fight to pick. If Jones doesn't stay on the ropes and give Calzaghe angles and lots of movement I'm going to go with Jones by decision. Roy can't stay on the ropes and give Joe the chance to throw his slapping punches. This is a great fight for Jones to win and set-up a big money fight again with Hopkins!"

Glen johnson: "Roy Jones will win. I believe Calzaghe fights an amateur style. He throws a lot of slappy punches. Roy throws much more meaningful punches. In general, Calzaghe will throw more punches than Roy, but Roy's will be harder hitting. Unless the judges are blind, they will see that the harder punches make Jones the winner. They should see that Roy Jones' hard-hitting punches make the difference."

Vernon Forest: "Roy Jones is still the best fighter in my era and still arguably one of the best fighters period. Roy with his speed can match Calzaghe, and he has power. So the power and speed is with Roy. Roy by decision."

Malinaggi: "It's a hard fight to pick. I thought Calzaghe at first because, maybe he's too much for Roy right now. But based on what Joe just said about the three Brits beating the three Americans (Calzaghe-Jones, Hatton-Malignaggi, Haye-Barrett), I'm pulling Roy home.....Jones by decision."

Mickey Ward: "It's a pick 'em fight. I'd pick Calzaghe but you can't count Jones out. I can't pick a winner in this fight. They're both up in age. Jones is coming off a good fight (vs. Trinidad). I like Calzaghe to outbox Jones, who has been knocked out twice, but he didn't show any effects in his last fight."

Winky Wright:"I think Roy is going to win. I think that his punches are going to be sharper than Calzaghe's and I think that Roy is a harder puncher. I think it might go all 12 rounds, but if somebody gets stopped I think it's Calzaghe late in the fight."
"Chad Dawson: It's a tough one to call. It's a very even match up.

They all said the same about lacy too LOL. Secondly, don't give calaghe shit for this fight it was jones calling calzaghe out! Calzaghe humiliated him for doing so.