Calzaghe vs Jones Jr or Mayweather v Mosley?

[Dark Lord Al]

So do you let Calzaghe finish in your mouth or are his hands too brittle for that so you just take it in the ass like a true brit!

Racist! I shall not defeat you - I shall transcend you.

By the way someone saying the word BRIT as an insult isnt racist ,

[ICB]

I revisted some of Joe Calzaghe's best wins vs Woodhall, Reid, then i checked out Reid's and Woodhall's last fight before they fought Joe Calzaghe, and they both looked bad. Robin Reid was absolute sh** vs Thulani Malinga. And Richie Woodhall was floored 3 times and lucky to survive against feather fisted Markus Beyer.

It seems to be a pattern with most of Joe Calzaghe's best wins, that his opponents were coming off losses or bad performances. With the exception of Mikkel Kessler and the overrated Jeff Lacy.

As for the thread pretty simple Shane Mosley was coming off bashing up Margarito, Mayorga, and had good performances vs Collazo, Cotto.

Roy Jones Jr was coming off beating a 3 year retired Welterweight Trinidad, beating average opposition Hanshaw, Ajamu. And 3 bad back to back losses Tarver x2, Johnson.

Hence Shane Mosley was clearly the fighter in better form, which means a better win for Floyd Mayweather Jr pretty simple.

[IamInuit]

Look nobody here can say that Joe Calzaghe ducked anyone at 168. If you can then name the person. I think Roy would have beaten him but he was already well into 175. Maybe a prime Eubanks beats him I don't know but Calzaghe like it or lump is the greatest super mid that ever lived. Lacy at the time was billed as a destroyer of worlds and after Joe thumped the shit out of him he was a bum or overrated. Next came Kessler, the savior of the division and Joe made him look rather pedestrian. Years later this Kessler beat Froch and went close with the latest coming of Christ in Ward.

Margarito was done completely after the inserts were discovered. Might as well given the man a lobotomy and sent him out to fight.

Floyds win over Shane is no greater then Joe's over Roy. Equal in insignificance.

[Spicoli]

I have a sudden random urge to see a wind up toy notice how he losses steam at the end

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Both fighters have brittle hands. One suffers the pain, one doesn't. Both have 0's.

Admittedly, I'm just being a git for the hell of it.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I like Calzaghe but if I remember right he even said in his book that he wouldn't fight Jones because of his age i think?

Hopkins following JC v RJ stated he didn't want a second jones fight! Fighters say a lot!

Why didn't he go over sooner to tackle elite opposition.

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear"

- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

Its 2002 and hopkins had beat trinidad 10 months before and then beat carl daniels 5 months ago. Having cleared out one of the worst middleweight era's in living memory, hopkins received a career high payday offer of $3m to fight joe calzaghe at 168. Hopkins then deliberately prices himself out of the fight with calzaghe and instead goes on to fight 3 mediocre opponents in hakkar, joppy, and robert allan. for those 3 fights combined, hopkins earnt less than he would have earnt for one single fight with joe calzaghe.

The positive aspects for hopkins to fight calzaghe were:

- Career high payday
- Becoming the man in 2 weight divisions
- The fight would be in america
- The fact that bernard could easily adjust to the weight seen as hopkins fought 20 of his first 21 fights above the middleweight limit of 160

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him. His last 2 opponents (Jones and Bhop) practically taunted him into a fight! Why would he refuse?? He was way past his best anyway.

As for the likes of Glen johnson...He was never in calzaghe's league. Want the story on that one too?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Maybe a prime Eubanks beats him

Doubt it. Prime eubank struggled with henry wharton, Thulani malinga and ray close. None of which are even remotely on JC's level. I don't think the whitewash a green calzaghe put on a 31 yr old eubank would be a complete reversal had they met 3 yrs earlier!!

Nigel Benn thinks calzaghe would have been AS GOOD had he fought PRIME Collins, Benn and CE!

Floyds win over Shane is no greater then Joe's over Roy. Equal in insignificance

Calzaghes is better. Considering floyd was caught flush and nearly kayoed...LOL. Better display of skill too.

[imp]

Maybe a prime Eubanks beats him

Doubt it. Prime eubank struggled with henry wharton, Thulani malinga and ray close. None of which are even remotely on JC's level. I don't think the whitewash a green calzaghe put on a 31 yr old eubank would be a complete reversal had they met 3 yrs earlier!!

Nigel Benn thinks calzaghe would have been AS GOOD had he fought PRIME Collins, Benn and CE!

Floyds win over Shane is no greater then Joe's over Roy. Equal in insignificance

Calzaghes is better. Considering floyd was caught flush and nearly kayoed...LOL. Better display of skill too.

Ha ha ha. This is amazing!
Thats right! The only shot mosely makes in the whole fight and then gets totally dominated by floyd.
Bear in mind this is the post margarito mosley who everyone was scared off.
An old past it roy jones knocks JC down in the first round and JC still has trouble putting roy on his back!

There is nothing equal about this!
Like i said before JC deserves credit for some of his fights but the jones fight is more comparable with manfredo.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Robin Reid was absolute sh** vs Thulani Malinga.

Reid was an odd fighter who could be very good or very bad. Consider:

Reid won his world title away in Italy beating WBC champ Nardiello (Who holds a win over malinga BTW!)

Beat future WBC MW champ Cherifi when unwell. Thats Cherifi who went on to beat K Holmes

Beat top 10 world rated SMW Henry Wharton (Who pushed Nigel Benn all the way in a very close encounter!)

Beat undefeated Magee who is now WBA INT champ

Reid was robbed blind vs Ottke

If Reid was not deducted and faced such a poor bias ref he would have been a two time, three belt winning world champion..Another guy Calzaghe fought who was a top contender who often goes unoticed or ignored by guys from the US cause many never watched the guy. I suggest Reid vs Malinga was more robin reid having an off night, Rather than him being shit!!

And Richie Woodhall was floored 3 times and lucky to survive against feather fisted Markus Beyer

Woodhall rallied late in the fight and came close to stopping Beyer! And even with the KD's it was close on the cards! Woodhall boxed well regardless of the knock downs.

I think u will find that Woodhall was a talented fightert medalling behind RJ at the olympic games. He also comprehensively outboxed Malinga who beat Nigel Benn, Silvio Branco who schooled glenn johnson, Future World Champion Glenn Catley and former World Champ Vincenzo Nardiello! JC took it easy on his friend ritchie too!

It seems to be a pattern with most of Joe Calzaghe's best wins, that his opponents were coming off losses or bad performances. With the exception of Mikkel Kessler and the overrated Jeff Lacy.

-Jones beat Trinidad and defeated Lacy post.

-Hopkins beat Tarver/Wright and defeated Pavlik/Pascal post

-Eubank lost 2 DODGY decisons pre and post JC (one in the fighters home town!)

-Mitchell is a 2X WBA SMW champ who beat #1 ranked frankie Liles (something andre Ward is praised for doing)! Liles beat michael nunn!! Mitchell was rated in the ring mag SMW top ten for 5 years. He was 25-2 with 1 draw at the time he fought joe, his 2 losses (to men like bruno girard who was a WBA SMW and LHW champion) were debateable decisions too. It is not that as clear cut as just saying they we4e coming off losses...This is Otke we are dealing with!! Mitchell, Reid and Brewer All defeated otke in most ppls eyes! In fact Brewer probaly beat Otke twice! He also ended the career of Herol Graham and put echols down 3 times in 1 round!

-Brewer probaly beat Otke twice! He also ended the career of Herol Graham and put echols down 3 times in 1 round!

-Bikas Losses and Draws prior to joe were all debateable too!

As for the thread pretty simple Shane Mosley was coming off bashing up Margarito, Mayorga, and had good performances vs Collazo, Cotto.

And did what after? Mora LOL.

A 40 YR old Mosley fighting Floyd @ WW is ridiculous! He hadn't fought at 147 for 3 years! Also note Mosley has barely been legible in his interviews for years.

Roy Jones Jr was coming off beating a 3 year retired Welterweight Trinidad, beating average opposition Hanshaw, Ajamu. And 3 bad back to back losses Tarver x2, Johnson.

Re grouped, adapted his body back to 175 properly and produced this:
.






Still plenty left. Go watch hopkins squirming against him. More inconsistant but still capable of world class boxing.

Hence Shane Mosley was clearly the fighter in better form, which means a better win for Floyd Mayweather Jr pretty simple

How do u explain the Mora draw then?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Ha ha ha. This is amazing!
Thats right! The only shot mosely makes in the whole fight and then gets totally dominated by floyd.
Bear in mind this is the post margarito mosley who everyone was scared off.
An old past it roy jones knocks JC down in the first round and JC still has trouble putting roy on his back!

Mosley at 147 @ 40! Really? LOL. A forearm is not a legal KD. I think JC carried roy really, it wasn't a case of getting him out of there, he was puting on a show! Floyd vs Mosley was unspectacular. JC v Jones was a masterpiece! Calzaghe milked his swansong. So what!

Like i said before JC deserves credit for some of his fights but the jones fight is more comparable with manfredo

Nothing remotely like it. Manfredo was an HBO fight to build up a Taylor v Calzaghe showdown later that year.

[Dia bando]

Sorry to say it, but how many times can we de bait who or why Calzaghe did or did not fight, end of
the day he beat all he faced. We can talk all the bullshit we want, Undefeated Undisputed two weight
World Champ, simple end of story.

[imp]

Bando, just answer this, was JC performance against jones a masterpiece and a defining moment in JC career?

Yes, there will always be question marks over JC opposition but he has achieved a great deal.

Would i prefer to have had roy jones career or JC?

Its got to be roy jones because he was a pound for pound champion and would have been a serious threat and a far better boxer than JC.

Roy went through four divisons and yes he did beat a heavyweight ruiz who beat holyfield and then came down again and beat tarver!

Look at the journey and risks Roy put his body through to achieve all this!

JC is undefeated. He is a great boxer with amazing handspeed and duracell battery stamina and when i watched him fight kessler i wanted him to loose but found myself so impressed with his movement and boxing that im glad he won, but cant you see whats happening with the protege' nathan cleverly..its history repeating itself.

[IamInuit]

Jones was done when he fought Cal.
Shane was done when he fought Floyd.
It matters not how Shane looked against a man that was busted before he entered the ring. Or lobotomized.
Shane and Floyd at lightweight would have been something else before he jumped for Oscar.
Would have been nice to see Roy hang at 168 a little longer and fight Cal.
Both fights mean squat really.

[Dia bando]

Bando, just answer this, was JC performance against jones a masterpiece and a defining moment in JC career?

Yes, there will always be question marks over JC opposition but he has achieved a great deal.

Would i prefer to have had roy jones career or JC?

Its got to be roy jones because he was a pound for pound champion and would have been a serious threat and a far better boxer than JC.

Roy went through four divisons and yes he did beat a heavyweight ruiz who beat holyfield and then came down again and beat tarver!

Look at the journey and risks Roy put his body through to achieve all this!

JC is undefeated. He is a great boxer with amazing handspeed and duracell battery stamina and when i watched him fight kessler i wanted him to loose but found myself so impressed with his movement and boxing that im glad he won, but cant you see whats happening with the protege' nathan cleverly..its history repeating itself.

I go for Joe, because he new it was time to walk away, Roy on the other hand great fighter damages
himself, and his great carer by carrying on.

[Beanflicker]

Mayweather over Mosley was the bigger victory by a country mile. Mosley's stock had skyrocketed at the time with his win over Margarito. He was a legitimate fight for Floyd, both ranking-wise and stylistically, as a lot of people felt Mosley's speed and power would give Floyd fits.

No one bought Roy as a serious contender at that point in his career. The fight was a joke. "Well they didn't fight when they were in their primes at 168, so lets have them fight now." Meaningless fight IMO.