Tua VS Smokin Joe Fraizier battle of the left hooks, who wins and how?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Say what? Jesus the old timers nostalgia brigade are delusional! Did you see what happened in the two fights with George Foreman? Did you see Joe get stunned by guys like Ramos, Chuvalo, Stander, etc? Did u see Bonavena drop him twice? Joe had a very vulnerable chin. I think it would be a massacre and that's not disrespectful it's being real! Im not stuck in the fuckin past. Fraziers style would play right into the hands of Tua..

Did u see Tua's fight with the 240lb murderous punching IKE? That fight was highly debateable as to who nicked it! That fight set a CompuBox record for most combined punches thrown in a heavyweight fight! So dn't try and make out Tua could not hang with the smaller Frazier! Tua's chin is immense. His left hook is immense. Joe frazier was a come forward brawler and against the only real power puncher he faced he was violently schooled! And don't cite Byrd... Chris was a slick, defensive minded, southpaw not remotely similar to Joe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZCHNVj-Ro





Come on now!!

[TysonBomb]

Tua doesn't take body shots too well

Frazier was relentless to the body ... its not as one sided as you think ... Tua would probably win though

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Fraizer obiously is the better fighter and probably the better athlete but he was never going to take a backward step and isn't the toughest guy. Brave beyond words but ultimately too brave for his own good in this case.

Tua had that equalizer in his power (which is impossible to overrate).

[p4pking]

Tua was a powerful hitter, but he never actually won anything much and lost most of his biggest fights.

Yep, exactly the point I was going to post. Rahman, Ruiz and Maskaev are all solid wins, but he never really did anything or beat anybody, for me to put in the same league as a man that held his own for 4o or so rounds against Muhammad Ali.

That doesn't factor in styles at all though. Ken Norton more than held his own with Ali for as many rounds but was hopeless against a knockout puncher, and Frazier was only slightly tougher or less susceptible to an early attack. Tua was limited no doubt, but how exactly does Frazier neutralize his power. He wasn't exactly a Lennox Lewis type fighter now was he.. He'd have to get inside and fight with Tua to win, and I don't see how he wouldn't get the worst of that myself.
I think if anything Frazier gets severlely overrated on behalf of being Ali's nemesis, he didn't really beat anyone else better than David Tua for my money.

[Bobthepen]

Tua was a powerful hitter, but he never actually won anything much and lost most of his biggest fights.

Yep, exactly the point I was going to post. Rahman, Ruiz and Maskaev are all solid wins, but he never really did anything or beat anybody, for me to put in the same league as a man that held his own for 4o or so rounds against Muhammad Ali.

I think if anything Frazier gets severlely overrated on behalf of being Ali's nemesis, he didn't really beat anyone else better than David Tua for my money.

Apart from Quarry x2, Bonavena, Ellis x2, Bonavena. Chuvalo was a short heavy hitter with an iron chin too.
Who has Tua beat? He was getting a boxing lesson from Rahman for Christ's sake before he landed, and was outboxed to a draw in the rematch by an enormously fat Rahman who hadn't trained. Ike outworked him, Byrd and Lewis embarrassed him. I see nothing of note on his record.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Tua was a powerful hitter, but he never actually won anything much and lost most of his biggest fights.

He was majorly avoided for one thing! Holy. Tyson. etc would have been very interesting. I have a suspicion had Frazier fought SHW Lewis he would have been brutalised! Tua came in 20lbs overweight and still had him in retreat mode for 12 rounds! And actually a lot of ppl thought he nicked the Ike fight and IB was a huge man and a huge huge puncher. The only person comparable to Tua that Frazier fought was GF and he was violently schooled. And even Foreman did not have he explosiveness that Tua had nor was he able to generate the leverage that Tua would put on his punches!

Frazier fought no one comparable to Tua (Tua on the other hand proved himself against Ike in a war!) All evidence points to Frazier struggling with the power of Tua as evidenced by the Bonavena and Foreman fights. Ali is not comparable at all to Tua and should not be used when speculating on how Joe would handle him. Ali struggled with a lot of fighters not just Joe. By rights Cooper and Young should have a W over him but skullduggery and bad officiating dictated otherwise. Such is boxing...

Norton arguably beat him 3 times and Norton was brutalised by a 185lb LHW. Tua did not fight Ali! It does not mean Frazier has an automatic pass to beat him because he did! Silly argument.

Yep, exactly the point I was going to post. Rahman, Ruiz and Maskaev are all solid wins, but he never really did anything or beat anybody, for me to put in the same league as a man that held his own for 4o or so rounds against Muhammad Ali

So did Norton! And held his own or not Frazier lost 2 of the fights. Jimmy young probably beat Ali and Norton and we all know what he did to Foreman! Should we not speculate on how he would do vs Tua too? Just because those few fighters fought great fights between themselves in the 70's does not mean they would beat anyone before or since! Ppl need top get over this thinking they are unbeatable crap!

I think if anything Frazier gets severlely overrated on behalf of being Ali's nemesis, he didn't really beat anyone else better than David Tua for my money

Agreed.

Who has Tua beat? He was getting a boxing lesson from Rahman for Christ's sake before he landed, and was outboxed to a draw in the rematch by an enormously fat Rahman who hadn't trained. Ike outworked him, Byrd and Lewis embarrassed him. I see nothing of note on his record.

Who has Frazier beat even remotely comparable to Tua? He only beat featherfisted non-tryer Bugner by a single point! Rahman would have kayoed Bugner....

Fraziers chin was bad man.....come on admit it! He wasn't a skilled technician to negate that fact either he only knew one mode of fighting! Any point's lead Frazier built up would be negated by the amount of tmes Tua dropped him....but i don't buy a Frazier points win either! See the Ike fight.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Look what he did to iron chinned Ruiz:

[nikola_ganchev]

I think it would be one of the best infights in the history. Tua has really solid defence and is superb infighter with freaking power through all rounds and solid chin... All together he is tuff customer for fighters who are there to fight and not to jump over his back... Frazier is much faster, can take good punch and on the in portion will not be hit flush. It would have been a slugfest.

[Beanflicker]

Tua was never the best conditioned heavyweight. .

No?? His fight with Ibeabuchi had the most punches thrown in HW history and he was still swinging at the final bell. He's scored a bunch of late-round stoppages too, so he proved his power carried into the later parts of the fight.

Tua had deceptively good stamina for a guy of his build.

For everyone saying "well Tua never won anything"... who cares? Styles make fights. If you think Joe would beat a guy like Tua who had a much better chin and WAY more power, was a very accurate power-puncher and a great infighter... I think you have your rose colored glasses fixed on ol' Joe.

And I'm not saying that Tua is a better HW than Joe - FAR from it. I'm just saying that styles make fights and there were certain guys (Tua, Tyson, ect) who would have been absolute poison to Joe's style.


EDIT: I should say that I'm aware Ibeabuchi threw the lion's share of those record-breaking punches, but still that kind of pace will wear you down even if you aren't the one throwing all the punches.

[Beanflicker]

Frazier is much faster, can take good punch and on the in portion will not be hit flush. It would have been a slugfest.

I'm not even sold on the fact that Joe was faster, let alone MUCH faster. Tua had deceptive speed for his build. Sure, he was no Mike Tyson, but then again neither was Joe.

Joe's style of leading with his face first, despite his effective bobbing and weaving, resulted in him getting hit flush plenty of times. Getting hit by Ali flush and taking it is one thing, getting hit by a flush Tua hook to the jaw is another.

[Beanflicker]

Who has Tua beat? He was getting a boxing lesson from Rahman for Christ's sake before he landed, and was outboxed to a draw in the rematch by an enormously fat Rahman who hadn't trained. Ike outworked him, Byrd and Lewis embarrassed him. I see nothing of note on his record.

Who cares? Do you think Frazier is in any way comparable to the way guys like Rahman, Byrd and Lewis fight?

Was Frazier going to stick-and-move Tua like those guys did? Win the fight with his jab? How does that have any relevance?

[p4pking]

Tua was a powerful hitter, but he never actually won anything much and lost most of his biggest fights.

Yep, exactly the point I was going to post. Rahman, Ruiz and Maskaev are all solid wins, but he never really did anything or beat anybody, for me to put in the same league as a man that held his own for 4o or so rounds against Muhammad Ali.

I think if anything Frazier gets severlely overrated on behalf of being Ali's nemesis, he didn't really beat anyone else better than David Tua for my money.

Apart from Quarry x2, Bonavena, Ellis x2, Bonavena. Chuvalo was a short heavy hitter with an iron chin too.
Who has Tua beat? He was getting a boxing lesson from Rahman for Christ's sake before he landed, and was outboxed to a draw in the rematch by an enormously fat Rahman who hadn't trained. Ike outworked him, Byrd and Lewis embarrassed him. I see nothing of note on his record.

I don't think Bonavena or Ellis were much, if any better than Rahman or Ibeabuchi. Quarry was perhaps for a time but he was a TINY heavyweight and couldn't take a good shot, Tua would've killed him. And as Beanflicker just aptly stated, I didn't say anything about who Tua beat or who beat him, simply that he would've been a terrible matchup for Frazier.

[TitoFan]

even matchup. I think Joe takes it on close points win

100/1 odds against the fight getting to a decision. Two bangers with deadly left hooks.
Because of the sheer size difference, I'd have to pick Tua.

We all want to say Frazier, because he's the higher ranked HW in history, but you cannot ignore size. Frazier's best chance would be to use his head movement to avoid the bombs and land enough of his own to hurt the massive Tua.