Tyson vs Frazier Tyson vs Marciano

[undefeated]

tyson could beat them both---but dont fu**** bullhs*** about how easy it would b 2 beat marciano---and then exclude frazier. frazier would get ko the same round as rocky. so dont single out marciano--in a question that involves both

Disagree here. I agree Tyson would KO them both, but he would have a much easier time with Marciano. I think the Marciano fans on this site have seen the movie Rocky III one too many times. A little 185 pound fighter isn't going to stand a chance against a bonified heavyweight. Marciano reigned during not only the weakest era of heavyweights, but also one of the smallest eras. The fighters he beat over 210 lbs are today's equivalent of Tough Man contestants(and yes, Joe Louis was an old man). If you want to hypothetically match him up with today's cruiserweights that's fine, let me tell you, Marciano get's destroyed against every major heavyweight today, and even going back 30 years. Marciano wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes as a heavyweight in the 70s.

well a 168 billy conn was able 2 take on a 200 louis. generally the heavyweights in louis era could not take on the heavys today. they would all b destroyed. in todays era marciano would have 2 b a cruiser, because todays heavys r just 2 big--i agree with u on that--but joe louis would get destroyed just like marciano

[maracho]

What's hysterical about this argument is that the Maciano fans even bring conditioning into this, as if Marciano would make it past the one minute mark .

If you can name one fight in which Tyson was pressured for 10 plus rounds. (And it has to be a fight that he actually won.) If you can name a fight such as this then I will say you are right. But the only problem is Tyson was never in a fight before that he was actually pressured the entire time and then won. It never happened. So how can you even say that he could beat marciano or Frazier? It makes no sense. Both Frazier and Marciano have both been in fights were they were pressured. And they both were able to win such fights unlike Tyson. I honestly think that if Tyson fought in the 1970's then we never would of even heard of him.

Do you not see the gaping hole in your argument? This would be like someone saying Ricky Hatton would put pressure on Nigel Benn for an entire fight because he did it to everyone else he fought. Marciano fans need to come back down to earth and realize Tyson-Marciano would be as brutal as Benn-Hatton. Rocky Marciano is not even a heavyweight by today's standards. Putting guys up against guys who have no business being in that weight division is what would get guys seriously injured.

You got some gaps yourself for instance to take your own argument just because Tyson knocked out out most that he fought does not mean he would have done it with the much greater competition that Marcino had. Just go to boxrec and look at he the records of the fighters that Tyson beat and then do the same for Marciano. The only impressive wins tyson has in my opinion are Spinks and Tucker.

If you really ever boxed an accomplished smaller slugger or seen one spar with a big accomplished one you will see that they are very competive and often dominating. Also go look up some of the oldtime boxers who were given the oportunity to fight much bigger men and you will see what I mean. Heck, many heavyweights today are fighting giants compared to themselves and I aint seen james Toney get hurt yet. Put Calzaghe, Hopkins, Taylor, Bell, etcc.. against some heavyweights like Ruis, Valuev, or some of the latest Tyson apponants and I will put my money on the smaller man every time.

[ringside]

I can't quote it but Lyle said earlyer that Tyson couldn't beat top 10 all time great, I think Tyson is in that top 10 and could beat the majority of the other boxers in the top 10.

[Samson3000]

What's hysterical about this argument is that the Maciano fans even bring conditioning into this, as if Marciano would make it past the one minute mark .

If you can name one fight in which Tyson was pressured for 10 plus rounds. (And it has to be a fight that he actually won.) If you can name a fight such as this then I will say you are right. But the only problem is Tyson was never in a fight before that he was actually pressured the entire time and then won. It never happened. So how can you even say that he could beat marciano or Frazier? It makes no sense. Both Frazier and Marciano have both been in fights were they were pressured. And they both were able to win such fights unlike Tyson. I honestly think that if Tyson fought in the 1970's then we never would of even heard of him.

Do you not see the gaping hole in your argument? This would be like someone saying Ricky Hatton would put pressure on Nigel Benn for an entire fight because he did it to everyone else he fought. Marciano fans need to come back down to earth and realize Tyson-Marciano would be as brutal as Benn-Hatton. Rocky Marciano is not even a heavyweight by today's standards. Putting guys up against guys who have no business being in that weight division is what would get guys seriously injured.

You got some gaps yourself for instance to take your own argument just because Tyson knocked out out most that he fought does not mean he would have done it with the much greater competition that Marcino had. Just go to boxrec and look at he the records of the fighters that Tyson beat and then do the same for Marciano. The only impressive wins tyson has in my opinion are Spinks and Tucker.

If you really ever boxed an accomplished smaller slugger or seen one spar with a big accomplished one you will see that they are very competive and often dominating. Also go look up some of the oldtime boxers who were given the oportunity to fight much bigger men and you will see what I mean. Heck, many heavyweights today are fighting giants compared to themselves and I aint seen james Toney get hurt yet. Put Calzaghe, Hopkins, Taylor, Bell, etcc.. against some heavyweights like Ruis, Valuev, or some of the latest Tyson apponants and I will put my money on the smaller man every time.

Hopkins, Taylor and Bell would beat Valuev That's the end of this conversation

[maracho]

tyson could beat them both---but dont fu**** bullhs*** about how easy it would b 2 beat marciano---and then exclude frazier. frazier would get ko the same round as rocky. so dont single out marciano--in a question that involves both

Disagree here. I agree Tyson would KO them both, but he would have a much easier time with Marciano. I think the Marciano fans on this site have seen the movie Rocky III one too many times. A little 185 pound fighter isn't going to stand a chance against a bonified heavyweight. Marciano reigned during not only the weakest era of heavyweights, but also one of the smallest eras. The fighters he beat over 210 lbs are today's equivalent of Tough Man contestants(and yes, Joe Louis was an old man). If you want to hypothetically match him up with today's cruiserweights that's fine, let me tell you, Marciano get's destroyed against every major heavyweight today, and even going back 30 years. Marciano wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes as a heavyweight in the 70s.

well a 168 billy conn was able 2 take on a 200 louis. generally the heavyweights in louis era could not take on the heavys today. they would all b destroyed. in todays era marciano would have 2 b a cruiser, because todays heavys r just 2 big--i agree with u on that--but joe louis would get destroyed just like marciano

On what evidence do you base this on?

And Sampson for your information Valuev got his butt kicked recently by Ruiz who got his butt kicked by Roy Jones so why dont you go guys read a little and give sources ?

[maracho]

Humdi-dum-dum and still waiting while they are figuring out this reasearch thing.

According to Emauel steward, when James toney was still a little guy he used to challenge and spar with everybody including the heavyheights like Michael Moore
Today Toney spars with little Karmazin and was a main partner for the Ouma fight. I guese one teaching the other about Russian techniques while the other teaches American.

Margarito likes to bully big guys as well I hear.

[El Kabong]

I can't quote it but Lyle said earlyer that Tyson couldn't beat top 10 all time great, I think Tyson is in that top 10 and could beat the majority of the other boxers in the top 10.

HA!

I'd hate to see your top 10. You're probably one of those Tyson nut jobs who thinks he could beat a prime George Foreman!

[maracho]

Don't forget about Jack dempsey who only weighed 190 LBS but was able to knock out eight of gigantic Jess Willards teeth, break his eye socket, his jaw and nose in the first round

[clean]

Humdi-dum-dum and still waiting while they are figuring out this reasearch thing.

According to Emauel steward, when James toney was still a little guy he used to challenge and spar with everybody including the heavyheights like Michael Moore
Today Toney spars with little Karmazin and was a main partner for the Ouma fight. I guese one teaching the other about Russian techniques while the other teaches American.

Margarito likes to bully big guys as well I hear.

Maracho, sparring has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in a real fight. Don't ever take anything you hear about a 'sparring session' at face value. No one goes all out in sparring sessions, especially the sparring partners. It's unfair to Marciano to imagine him being in the ring with true heavyweights. The man was really a cruiserweight in a time when nearly all heavyweights were as well.

[maracho]

You definitely are only an armchair boxer who has never been in the ring or gym because although boxers are not supposed to go full out in sparring they do go full out almost as much as not; and if you have not heard how James Toney busts up his Sparring partners then you must not be an avid fan either.

Just plug in any fighters name + sparring and see how brutal sparring is though I would hope that Toney is not as hard on Karmazin as he is with the big boys. Here are about 10 minutes of googling to prove my point

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...5128&view=next

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=4361&more=1


http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews.../4277203241629 marciano

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=2061&more=1 frazier

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=1 Tyson

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=1438&more=1 Danny williams

http://www.boxinginsider.com/news/stories/149135656.php Margarito beats Oscar

In videos Joe Louis used to knock out his sparing opponents all the time then one day Joe Walcott sparred with him and knocked him down three times and thus was fired by Louis’s trainer just like margarito did.


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2282684 Margarito and Paul Williams

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...c.php?p=156132 Toney

[ImRipped]

You definitely are only an armchair boxer who has never been in the ring or gym because although boxers are not supposed to go full out in sparring they do go full out almost as much as not; and if you have not heard how James Toney busts up his Sparring partners then you must not be an avid fan either.

Just plug in any fighters name + sparring and see how brutal sparring is though I would hope that Toney is not as hard on Karmazin as he is with the big boys. Here are about 10 minutes of googling to prove my point

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...5128&view=next

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=4361&more=1


http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews.../4277203241629 marciano

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=2061&more=1 frazier

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=1 Tyson

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=1438&more=1 Danny williams

http://www.boxinginsider.com/news/stories/149135656.php Margarito beats Oscar

In videos Joe Louis used to knock out his sparing opponents all the time then one day Joe Walcott sparred with him and knocked him down three times and thus was fired by Louis’s trainer just like margarito did.


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2282684 Margarito and Paul Williams

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...c.php?p=156132 Toney

Clean, this is the same guy who said Jermaine Taylor would beat Nikolay Valuev. Don't waste your time with this idiot.

[The_One77]

tyson could beat them both---but dont fu**** bullhs*** about how easy it would b 2 beat marciano---and then exclude frazier. frazier would get ko the same round as rocky. so dont single out marciano--in a question that involves both

Disagree here. I agree Tyson would KO them both, but he would have a much easier time with Marciano. I think the Marciano fans on this site have seen the movie Rocky III one too many times. A little 185 pound fighter isn't going to stand a chance against a bonified heavyweight. Marciano reigned during not only the weakest era of heavyweights, but also one of the smallest eras. The fighters he beat over 210 lbs are today's equivalent of Tough Man contestants(and yes, Joe Louis was an old man). If you want to hypothetically match him up with today's cruiserweights that's fine, let me tell you, Marciano get's destroyed against every major heavyweight today, and even going back 30 years. Marciano wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes as a heavyweight in the 70s.

well a 168 billy conn was able 2 take on a 200 louis. generally the heavyweights in louis era could not take on the heavys today. they would all b destroyed. in todays era marciano would have 2 b a cruiser, because todays heavys r just 2 big--i agree with u on that--but joe louis would get destroyed just like marciano

Size is overrated imo
Heavyweights today might be bigger, but lets use an example to see how size is not everthing..... Tell which James Toney is better? A 210 lbs James Toney or a 230 lbs?
Roy Jones utterly destroyed Ruiz and he wasn't even 200 lbs, Holyfield got a draw with Lewis and he was only about 217 pounds and 205 when he won the title.
It's not just size that comes into play, it's about skill, speed, the ability to take a punch, punching power and heart....If you have size along with all of that (Lewis is the closest thing to that description i know of today), then that's a big bonus.
Size alone however is not enough, but if Joe put on 10 pounds of muscle he would be a serious threat toady.....I agree you can't be too small, but being too big has it's disadvantages aswell.

[smashcrusher]

tyson could beat them both---but dont fu**** bullhs*** about how easy it would b 2 beat marciano---and then exclude frazier. frazier would get ko the same round as rocky. so dont single out marciano--in a question that involves both

Disagree here. I agree Tyson would KO them both, but he would have a much easier time with Marciano. I think the Marciano fans on this site have seen the movie Rocky III one too many times. A little 185 pound fighter isn't going to stand a chance against a bonified heavyweight. Marciano reigned during not only the weakest era of heavyweights, but also one of the smallest eras. The fighters he beat over 210 lbs are today's equivalent of Tough Man contestants(and yes, Joe Louis was an old man). If you want to hypothetically match him up with today's cruiserweights that's fine, let me tell you, Marciano get's destroyed against every major heavyweight today, and even going back 30 years. Marciano wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes as a heavyweight in the 70s.

well a 168 billy conn was able 2 take on a 200 louis. generally the heavyweights in louis era could not take on the heavys today. they would all b destroyed. in todays era marciano would have 2 b a cruiser, because todays heavys r just 2 big--i agree with u on that--but joe louis would get destroyed just like marciano

Size is overrated imo
Heavyweights today might be bigger, but lets use an example to see how size is not everthing..... Tell which James Toney is better? A 210 lbs James Toney or a 230 lbs?
Roy Jones utterly destroyed Ruiz and he wasn't even 200 lbs, Holyfield got a draw with Lewis and he was only about 217 pounds and 205 when he won the title.
It's not just size that comes into play, it's about skill, speed, the ability to take a punch, punching power and heart....If you have size along with all of that (Lewis is the closest thing to that description i know of today), then that's a big bonus.
Size alone however is not enough, but if Joe put on 10 pounds of muscle he would be a serious threat toady.....I agree you can't be too small, but being too big has it's disadvantages aswell.

Holyfield got a draw with Lewis? Next you'll be telling us Chavez got a draw with Pernell Whitaker. Dude, that fight does everything to disprove your point, Lewis schooled Holyfield just like Whitaker schooled Chavez, they're the two worst decisions in boxing history and you know that. And please, let's not compare one of the worst heavyweights in history to Mike Tyson. Roy Jones outboxed Ruiz by staying away, not exactly the same manner in which Marciano fights is it. Marciano against any heavyweight of today would get his head peeled back til the fat meat showed

[The_One77]

I know, but he still gave a good fight....and alot of people believe that Holyfield beat him in the rematch. Imo, a younger Holyfield could of beaten Lewis.

[smashcrusher]

tyson could beat them both---but dont fu**** bullhs*** about how easy it would b 2 beat marciano---and then exclude frazier. frazier would get ko the same round as rocky. so dont single out marciano--in a question that involves both

Disagree here. I agree Tyson would KO them both, but he would have a much easier time with Marciano. I think the Marciano fans on this site have seen the movie Rocky III one too many times. A little 185 pound fighter isn't going to stand a chance against a bonified heavyweight. Marciano reigned during not only the weakest era of heavyweights, but also one of the smallest eras. The fighters he beat over 210 lbs are today's equivalent of Tough Man contestants(and yes, Joe Louis was an old man). If you want to hypothetically match him up with today's cruiserweights that's fine, let me tell you, Marciano get's destroyed against every major heavyweight today, and even going back 30 years. Marciano wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes as a heavyweight in the 70s.

well a 168 billy conn was able 2 take on a 200 louis. generally the heavyweights in louis era could not take on the heavys today. they would all b destroyed. in todays era marciano would have 2 b a cruiser, because todays heavys r just 2 big--i agree with u on that--but joe louis would get destroyed just like marciano

On what evidence do you base this on?

And Sampson for your information Valuev got his butt kicked recently by Ruiz who got his butt kicked by Roy Jones so why dont you go guys read a little and give sources ?

maracho-------------------->>>>>>>http://usesoap.com/images/potm/chris_burke.jpg