sugar ray robinson vs roy jones jr

[raleights]

We aren't talking "resume's" here. We're talking about size, power and speed. And I'm sorry but Ray was a master of the basics at a time when the other fighters he fought weren't. Ray had ability but you go 30 years and nowadays if you put a fighter in the ring who fought the same way as Ray had the same speed same body type, same structure, and he would be beaten within 20 fights.

No he would not. I REALLY don't beleive that and I have a hard time thinking that very many would agree with you. Ray Robinson was ages ahead of his time as far as boxing goes. BK was right about 147 and Robinson peaking, but I watch Robinson fights and I see a guy who if he fought today, would be a P4P top fighter. He made no mistakes. The only L's on his record are fights he didn't take seriously and showed up the day of without even knowing who it was he was fighting. He had no flaws in his system like RJJ did, he had the fundamentals mastered, RJJ didn't, and he had pinpoint accuracy, beautiful combos, brilliant speed (even by today's standards) and strength to match.

SRR at 160 beats RJJ by UD imo.

And SRR beats everyone but MAYBE Mayweather at 147/154 today. But the jury is still out on Mayweather.

I think what angel is saying and you're missing is, those fundamentals he mastered meant nothing compared to someone like Roy Jones - Robinson had never seen anyone like him much less fight. Yes SRR was lightyears ahead of his time but if he fought today he wouldn't be, just the simple truth IMO. Would he still dominate? Sure you bet your ass but he'd have a few losses too. And because of their size difference this match is a bit unfair, and the chance of it going the distance if Roy was determined to end the fight, is very low partly because of that fact alone. Thats not even mentioning Roy's physical superiority - yes he was bigger so the standard is that he should be slower but not in RJ's case. People can preach Roy Jones and fundamentals all day long but the fact is he made a career of making good fighters whether you like to believe it or not - look ordinary without the use of fundamentals. As far as the styles colliding I can't really comment, no earthly clue how it would turn out but you know what I think

size matters

[Majesty]

We aren't talking "resume's" here. We're talking about size, power and speed. And I'm sorry but Ray was a master of the basics at a time when the other fighters he fought weren't. Ray had ability but you go 30 years and nowadays if you put a fighter in the ring who fought the same way as Ray had the same speed same body type, same structure, and he would be beaten within 20 fights.

No he would not. I REALLY don't beleive that and I have a hard time thinking that very many would agree with you. Ray Robinson was ages ahead of his time as far as boxing goes. BK was right about 147 and Robinson peaking, but I watch Robinson fights and I see a guy who if he fought today, would be a P4P top fighter. He made no mistakes. The only L's on his record are fights he didn't take seriously and showed up the day of without even knowing who it was he was fighting. He had no flaws in his system like RJJ did, he had the fundamentals mastered, RJJ didn't, and he had pinpoint accuracy, beautiful combos, brilliant speed (even by today's standards) and strength to match.

SRR at 160 beats RJJ by UD imo.

And SRR beats everyone but MAYBE Mayweather at 147/154 today. But the jury is still out on Mayweather.

I see both your points but Robinson wasn't "flawless" or he never would have lost a fight. More or less it was fighters with a style similar to a Roy Jones that would and did give Robinson trouble, like the guy he fought in England.

I know SRR is one of the greatest fighters of all time but he was also one of the greatest fighters in "his" time. This is a time that nobody had seen anyone fight the way Robinson did, and nobody had a gameplan on how to beat that style of Robinson.

But fast forward past Robinson

You had Ali, Holmes, Leonard and Hearns, Tyson.

You had more diversity within styles then you had in Ray Robinson's era.

Fact of the matter is, Ray fought great competition, but he didn't fight anyone as fast, as powerful as quick or with the agility of Roy Jones Jr. Because mainly fighters back then weren't trained in the same ways as fighters are now(I hope I got that out right).

Ray is disadvantaged to go through 40 years of advancement in the sweet science and he wouldn't know what to do with Roy Jones Jr. Robinson mastered the fundamentals at a time when about 95 percent of the fighters in those classes he dominated didn't do the same thing. I don't think that Robinson could deal with the size power and speed of Roy, who was faster then Robinson was when Roy was even at 168 and 175. Actually Robinson started as a welterweight and Roy was just a weight class above him when he started. But Robinson peaked as a Welterweight, and Roy peaked as a Super Middleweight, though great and one of the best when you look at his resume and the fighters he fought. Boxing is about styles, and Ray wouldn't have been able to deal with the style of Roy Jones Jr. And that is NOT saying that Ray isn't a better fighter. Jones' style just foils him.

[smashcrusher]

Let's stop trying to act as if Roy Jones saw anything remotely close to Ray Robinson as well

[SimonH]

Let's stop trying to act as if Roy Jones saw anything remotely close to Ray Robinson as well

Robinson was a ten times Greater...

But evolution means RJJ was better

[smashcrusher]

Then we agree to disagree. I see Robinson as being greater AND better

[nigel2smooth79]

I've never in my life seen an athlete who did so little and somehow have so many sackriders like Roy Jones. Great fighter but let's get real here. Robinson was on another level.

Well I have to say I think Roy Jones JR is the best boxer ever to put on boxing Gloves...

I think why so many peopel like him is cos watching him box is such a joy,it is fantastic to watch and i hope other Jones fans will agree with me when i say this but watching him fight when he is on top of his game is mezmarising...I have never seen someone with so much talent in a boxing ring...I suppose some people just dont get it when they watch him...I am glad I have cos so entertaining......

[Taeth]

We aren't talking "resume's" here. We're talking about size, power and speed. And I'm sorry but Ray was a master of the basics at a time when the other fighters he fought weren't. Ray had ability but you go 30 years and nowadays if you put a fighter in the ring who fought the same way as Ray had the same speed same body type, same structure, and he would be beaten within 20 fights.

No he would not. I REALLY don't beleive that and I have a hard time thinking that very many would agree with you. Ray Robinson was ages ahead of his time as far as boxing goes. BK was right about 147 and Robinson peaking, but I watch Robinson fights and I see a guy who if he fought today, would be a P4P top fighter. He made no mistakes. The only L's on his record are fights he didn't take seriously and showed up the day of without even knowing who it was he was fighting. He had no flaws in his system like RJJ did, he had the fundamentals mastered, RJJ didn't, and he had pinpoint accuracy, beautiful combos, brilliant speed (even by today's standards) and strength to match.

SRR at 160 beats RJJ by UD imo.

And SRR beats everyone but MAYBE Mayweather at 147/154 today. But the jury is still out on Mayweather.

I think what angel is saying and you're missing is, those fundamentals he mastered meant nothing compared to someone like Roy Jones - Robinson had never seen anyone like him much less fight. Yes SRR was lightyears ahead of his time but if he fought today he wouldn't be, just the simple truth IMO. Would he still dominate? Sure you bet your a** but he'd have a few losses too. And because of their size difference this match is a bit unfair, and the chance of it going the distance if Roy was determined to end the fight, is very low partly because of that fact alone. Thats not even mentioning Roy's physical superiority - yes he was bigger so the standard is that he should be slower but not in RJ's case. People can preach Roy Jones and fundamentals all day long but the fact is he made a career of making good fighters whether you like to believe it or not - look ordinary without the use of fundamentals. As far as the styles colliding I can't really comment, no earthly clue how it would turn out but you know what I think

size matters

What are you tlaking about... RObinson tried against Lamotta... he didn't just pass him up the first time ,and had other hard fights against Lamotta... Jones didn't train even close to as hard as other fighters because he lost his interest and still came in stronger, faster than anyone p4p we've ever seen... RObinson did make technical mistakes its just people couldn't take advantage of his flaws back then, but Lamotta could hit him with big combination of punches that Roy Jones, Whitaker, Mayweather, Hopkins have never been caught with. Robinson for his era is p4p the best ever, but he loses against many fighters over the past twenty five years who have fought between 147-160. To name a few Hopkins, Duran, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Wright, Toney, RJJ, Whitaker, now Mayweather.

[skyler]

Ah yes. It wouldn't be a Roy Jones post without the pathetic "Roy only lost because he didn't train" angle in there. This thread is now complete