BAROCK OBAMA

[El Kabong]

Yeah, FDR and Reagan come to mind.


But Barack is an empty vessle there to be filled by the warped theories of the moveon.org crowd

[Kirkland Laing]

Anyone who thinks we're going to be in a WAR for 100 years doesn't need to have the right to vote because they are fucking retarded. All McCain said with that 100 years comment is that the United States is going to make sure Iraq is a sovreign nation and our intrests are looked after as it would be idiotic to set up a government only to have them taken over by Iran in a couple months.

As for Barrack...

That's not the point. We aren't going to be there for 100 years but we're closing in on half a century in Korea and no one wants that.

The point is that McCain is not open to a timetable which is what the issue is here because it's unrealistic to think a heavy troop prescence for an undetermined amount of time is going to solve anything in Iraq.

We are going to be there 100 years, or at least till the oil runs out. The fact that this will end up being counterproductive/disastrous hasn't sunk into the heads of the numbskulls in the White House yet.


McCain is a flip flopping bser who only made it to the Senate because of his wife's huge wealth and connections.

And he'd be even worse than George Bush, QED.

The last two points directed at Lyle.

[El Kabong]

#1 it's funny a Brit is trying to lecture us about the Middle East

#2 McCain is a patriot and made it into the senate because he's smart and he's a war hero....his wife's money has had nothing to do with his success in politics. What has he "flip flopped" on? And you calling him a flip flopper is very ironic....have you been listening to Conservative Talk Radio lately HAHAHA

#3 I highly doubt it, McCain is a guy who is something the average American can get behind. He's tough, he's for the average man, and he's not totally tied to any party. He's solution oriented and when there is a problem he wants to solve it and he'll try to solve it most politicians just let the issues pile up and then point the finger to the opposition for letting those things happen, McCain doesn't wait, he acts and sometimes he's wrong but he's not afraid to be wrong.

I know it's "cool", and "neat", and "progressive" (that's the gayest thing the Democrats say) to like a black guy and a woman but frankly they don't have good policies, they haven't proven themselves and they are more pretentious than their supporters.


Vote for who you want to but don't disrespect John McCain, he has given more for this country than anyone else running for President!

[Kirkland Laing]

#1 it's funny a Brit is trying to lecture us about the Middle East

#2 McCain is a patriot and made it into the senate because he's smart and he's a war hero....his wife's money has had nothing to do with his success in politics. What has he "flip flopped" on? And you calling him a flip flopper is very ironic....have you been listening to Conservative Talk Radio lately HAHAHA

#3 I highly doubt it, McCain is a guy who is something the average American can get behind. He's tough, he's for the average man, and he's not totally tied to any party. He's solution oriented and when there is a problem he wants to solve it and he'll try to solve it most politicians just let the issues pile up and then point the finger to the opposition for letting those things happen, McCain doesn't wait, he acts and sometimes he's wrong but he's not afraid to be wrong.

I know it's "cool", and "neat", and "progressive" (that's the gayest thing the Democrats say) to like a black guy and a woman but frankly they don't have good policies, they haven't proven themselves and they are more pretentious than their supporters.


Vote for who you want to but don't disrespect John McCain, he has given more for this country than anyone else running for President!

1. You're dodging the issue here.

2. He couldn't have run his first campaign without his wife's money and connections. He's flip flopped on just about everything you can name. A short list :

* McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”
* McCain claims to have considered and not considered joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.
* In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.
* McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.
* McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal.
* McCain’s campaign unveiled a Social Security policy that the senator would implement if elected, which did not include a Bush-like privatization scheme. In March 2008, McCain denounced his own campaign’s policy.
* In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.
* In November 2007, McCain reversed his previous position on a long-term presence for U.S. troops in Iraq, arguing that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make it inevitable that the United States “eventually withdraws.” Two months later, McCain reversed back, saying he’s prepared to leave U.S. troops in Iraq for 100 years.
* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.
* On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation.
* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.
* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.
* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.
* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
* On a related note, he said 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and insisted he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.
* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.
* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.



McCain's current platform is a bunch of stuff that would just make the existing economic/foreign situation much worse. By contrast either Democrat would be a much better choice for the average American. Although with your fetish for voting for people who relentlessly fuck you up the arse I can see why you'd rather vote for more of the same again.

[pacfan]

I don't want to sound like an interventionist but believe me, I went to school singing the Star Spangled Banner and pledging my alliance to the flag of the U S of A. If not Clinton, I'll go for McCaine coz America will lose it's credibility if it leaves the mess it started. I'd say Bush shouldn't have invaded Iraq but instead he should've chased bin Laden. But since he did, you got no choice but to finish the job and clean up the mess. I'm not against US intervening against some rogue states which massacres it's own people or minorities, never mind them damn French oppositions. But IMO Iraq invasion wasn't necessary. By now, you all know Iraq deserved a guy like Saddam.

[El Kabong]

Kirkland your outrageously misinformed and the majority of those complaints about McCain are from people who are MORE conservative and not LESS and therefore in your eyes shouldn't merit much of a attention from knowledgable voters or at least that's basically what you always told me.


I guess I'll just have to cancel your vote out (assuming you are voting) come November.



Bill Ayers can go fuck himself and all the Chinese that support the Clintons can fuck off too.

[Kirkland Laing]

You're calling me misinformed?

Here's a good example of misinformation. Remember how Clinton was crucified for taking campaign donations from Chinese businessmen? The liberal media didn't cover this episode quite as well :

More recently, in 2002, Mr Bush became a consultant to Grace Semiconductor, a Shanghai-based company linked to Jiang Mianheng, the shadowy son of China's ex-president Jiang Zemin. Mr Bush stands to be paid £1.2 million in shares over five years, plus £6,000 for every board meeting he attends.
Lawyers for his wife, Sharon, with whom he is fighting a messy divorce battle, last year challenged Mr Bush about his Asian business dealings, noting that he had "absolutely no educational background in semiconductors".
"That's correct," Mr Bush replied.
The same legal deposition uncovered the saga of Mr Bush's Asian business trips, during which he would answer knocks at his hotel room door, to find a beautiful woman eager to have sex with him, free of charge.
"Mr Bush," the transcript reads at one point. "You have to admit that it's a pretty remarkable thing for a man just to go to a hotel room door and open it and have a woman standing there and have sex with her."
"It was very unusual," Mr Bush replied, adding that he could not remember exactly how many times it had taken place.



Spotlight falls on Bush brother's share dealing - Telegraph

[El Kabong]

I'm saying you're taking McCain's policy changes out of context.

You sound like Karl Rove when you post about McCain.....do you take that as a compliment

[Kirkland Laing]

Put them in context then. Explain the context in which switching positions, sometimes multiple times on various issues, can all be explained.

[SalTheButcher]

the point is obama actually said 'do you smell what barack is cookin'

[SalTheButcher]

anyway, clinton has been mathematically eliminated for months


obama would have had a huge advantage against mccain if the media was just honest and stopped covering clinton, but instead they have allowed her to essentially campaign against obama for mccain


after all this shit is over mccain will have a huge chance thanks to how weakminded clinton is, also bill clinton has destroyed his image

[Kirkland Laing]

the point is obama actually said 'do you smell what barack is cookin'

It's not Obama, it's Osama.

[El Kabong]

* McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.” When H.W. Bush said he wouldn't raised taxes he made a promise that he couldn't keep, McCain basically said he wasn't going to do what H.W. did and raise taxes....however you can never say never

* McCain claims to have considered and not considered joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004. What's the fault in that? He's showing he covers both parties and is not specifically tied to the hardcore GOP, he's considering former Democrat Joe Lieberman as a VP candidate.

* In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser. Raising cigarette taxes does absolutely NOTHING and you know it

* McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position. He opposes any government bail out of any company OR person who failed to think before they acted.

* McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. With the war going on and oil prices and the economy the way it is I don't blame him, his goal now is to fix the economy and end the violant portion of the War in Iraq

* McCain’s campaign unveiled a Social Security policy that the senator would implement if elected, which did not include a Bush-like privatization scheme. In March 2008, McCain denounced his own campaign’s policy. This makes him different than Obama and Hillary and he could sell this to the voters and it would be a BIG difference especially to the boomers.

* In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding. Hey HE was tortured whatever his opinion is in this case it's one of experiance and I never heard anything where he said he supported waterboarding.

* In November 2007, McCain reversed his previous position on a long-term presence for U.S. troops in Iraq, arguing that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make it inevitable that the United States “eventually withdraws.” Two months later, McCain reversed back, saying he’s prepared to leave U.S. troops in Iraq for 100 years. You're parsing words and meanings...he doesn't want a WAR for a 100 years or an OCCUPYING FORCE for 100 years maybe a base to help out the intrests we have and the government we helped build there....and the issue with that is?

* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it. Well shit yeah, the Republicans oppose it and the American people oppose it and Arizona is a landlocked state last time I checked.

* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it. Well AMERICA is against it and more specifically the voters on the right and McCain would obviously need their votes to win and considering before he was just running for Senator in the boarder state of Arizona you can understand his political change of heart

* On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation. Because the people spoke and he listened....he supplied A solution but it wasn't THE solution....he was ballsy enough to supply a solution though, almost at the expense of his political career.

* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure. Bills get changed and ammended before they are voted on....you know that don't you?

* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.” Show me the people who knew this from the get go and you'll be showing me a bunch of fired generals....McCain called for more troops and the resignation of Rumsfeld....he was one of the first to do that.

* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.” Everyone thought it was "mission accomplished" and if it was to depose Saddam then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED but hell everyone sees the flaws in a "light force" now'a'days....McCain was also one of the first to call for MORE troops.

* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite. This is not a question for the PRESIDENT it's a question for the SUPREME COURT and the justices he would appoint would be more apt to overturn Roe v. Wade.

* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed. Who cares about that?

* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks. This was all about the GOP getting ready to force him out of the party after his immigration bill, which at least was A solution, maybe not THE solution but hey we haven't done anything about it to this day and so far he's been the only guy ballsy enough to try and fix it.

* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February. he had to "kiss the ring" after the immigration bill.

* On a related note, he said 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and insisted he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending. He had to "kiss the ring" after the immigration bill

* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support. Hey your enemy's friend is your enemy too. When your enemy is out of the way you can get a new friend. Texas is a gimme state for Republicans and therefore he can't afford to blow it there.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation. Bills change and are ammended before they are finally voted on so which part did he oppose?

* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it. I never heard of that but he wasn't the only one

[El Kabong]

* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it. He had to gain the good graces of the GOP for trying to pass his immigration bill.

* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol. He wants us off foreign oil, is that bad? Changing your mind after learning new details and being under different circumstances is NORMAL only in politics is it looked down upon.

* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag. Total Karl Rove spin....they took something and made a HUGE deal out of it. He said we should honor the fallen soldiers but not have the flag on the state Capital building...and either way he was screwed because the W machine was rolling and would have skewed his comments either way to the extreme....you should know better

* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York. And your point is? Sure he changed his mind WOW that's crazy he got wrinkled old Kissinger to give him some support man that totally changes the way I am going to vote

Hope that helps buddy...may not be the Gospel truth (how ironic me saying that to YOU haha) but that's my view on all those things and we must remember in everything other than politics changing your mind in light of new circumstances and information is a GOOD THING

[amat]

Didn't read all that, will after dinner but how can you say cigarette taxes do nothing? That's where the majority of public education funding comes from in California.