The Truth about the "greatest" Muhammad Ali..

[babyboNe]

ooh and i will always be a fan....

[porkypara]

i don't think we should dig too deep in to all the crap that is written about the great muhammed ali. a lot is written about him. an awesome man.

no..he was a draft dodger...plain and simple.....Above all of these things...he's not muslim, christian, catholic, lutheran, pentacostal, etc....He was/is American!!!!!!!! and if you want to have all the rights and freedoms this country offers then when it comes time for you to due your part YOU DO IT!! And if you then choose to deny your country when it asks for your help then you deserve to go to jail and anything else that goes with it.. That is the bottom line.

What rights did the Vietnam war win or protect for Americans of any race

Also I thought America was the land of the free.Does that not mean he was free to make his own mind up and not be forced to join the military in any form.

It was not as if the VC was on America's soil marching on Washington for fuck sake.

[babyboNe]

i don't think we should dig too deep in to all the crap that is written about the great muhammed ali. a lot is written about him. an awesome man.

no..he was a draft dodger...plain and simple.....Above all of these things...he's not muslim, christian, catholic, lutheran, pentacostal, etc....He was/is American!!!!!!!! and if you want to have all the rights and freedoms this country offers then when it comes time for you to due your part YOU DO IT!! And if you then choose to deny your country when it asks for your help then you deserve to go to jail and anything else that goes with it.. That is the bottom line.

What rights did the Vietnam war win or protect for Americans of any race

Also I thought America was the land of the free.Does that not mean he was free to make his own mind up and not be forced to join the military in any form.

It was not as if the VC was on America's soil marching on Washington for F*** sake.

[armin]

Porkypara cc for that, you wrote exactly what I been thinking!!!

[landmine950]

Landmine, that's the biggest load of S*** I have EVER read. You're damn right you got sad clicked, and you'll get another in 24 hrs.

Saddo gave a decent reply, but there is so much crap in your statements it would take all day to make an elaborate reply to all your claims. Even then it wouldn't be worth it since I can see from your post that you yourself have the mental ability of a cooked turnip.

I'm all for opinions being expressed on this board, and you have a right to dislike Ali. But to make statements such as 'simple minded' about Ali and present them as fact with some pathetic excuse such as a failed military test to back up your claim is just plain prejudice.

In actual fact..as a boxer...I really like Ali.....but for different reasons than most people.

The statements are common quotes,and historical facts.
I am just trying to present a bit of factual history to an era that was before most people here were born. Its hard to do . And I guess even harder for most people to grasp.



Armin your first 3 replies to this post showed showed a high degree of thoughtfulness and a high level of intelligence and logic. the 4th post makes me wonder....
As for Bomp....

[Beanflicker]

Yes do your duty when you believe in it, like world war 2 was actualy about freedom and S***! Vietnam war is looked upon as a shame today by many and as a place that the us should have never gotten involved in, what good came of it In my mind there are certain wars that have to be fought and are right, but some are just wrong, and to me vietnam falls into the later category. So call him a draft dodger, he's got a clear conscious, he stood by his believes, and I can only hope I'd have the same moral fabric he did/does.

I think if he truely wanted to stand by his beliefs he would have said, before he got drafted, "I will not stay in a country that is waging such a senseless war" and left. If you chose to live in a country, you take the good with the bad. I think its kind of cowardly for Ali to take all the rewards of living in America, but then to not accept the bad like everyone else.

[bigragu]

Yes do your duty when you believe in it, like world war 2 was actualy about freedom and S***! Vietnam war is looked upon as a shame today by many and as a place that the us should have never gotten involved in, what good came of it In my mind there are certain wars that have to be fought and are right, but some are just wrong, and to me vietnam falls into the later category. So call him a draft dodger, he's got a clear conscious, he stood by his believes, and I can only hope I'd have the same moral fabric he did/does.

I think if he truely wanted to stand by his beliefs he would have said, before he got drafted, "I will not stay in a country that is waging such a senseless war" and left. If you chose to live in a country, you take the good with the bad. I think its kind of cowardly for Ali to take all the rewards of living in America, but then to not accept the bad like everyone else.

that's exactly what I was saying!!! cc #2 bro!!!

[bigragu]

i don't think we should dig too deep in to all the crap that is written about the great muhammed ali. a lot is written about him. an awesome man.

no..he was a draft dodger...plain and simple.....Above all of these things...he's not muslim, christian, catholic, lutheran, pentacostal, etc....He was/is American!!!!!!!! and if you want to have all the rights and freedoms this country offers then when it comes time for you to due your part YOU DO IT!! And if you then choose to deny your country when it asks for your help then you deserve to go to jail and anything else that goes with it.. That is the bottom line.

What rights did the Vietnam war win or protect for Americans of any race

Also I thought America was the land of the free.Does that not mean he was free to make his own mind up and not be forced to join the military in any form.

It was not as if the VC was on America's soil marching on Washington for F*** sake.

it was a LAW at the time...sure anyone can look back and point out the faults and how wrong the war was...but The Draft was in effect att....He knew it...and so did all the others that went and fought and unfortunatly lost their lives over there.....

[bigragu]

i don't think we should dig too deep in to all the crap that is written about the great muhammed ali. a lot is written about him. an awesome man.

no..he was a draft dodger...plain and simple.....Above all of these things...he's not muslim, christian, catholic, lutheran, pentacostal, etc....He was/is American!!!!!!!! and if you want to have all the rights and freedoms this country offers then when it comes time for you to due your part YOU DO IT!! And if you then choose to deny your country when it asks for your help then you deserve to go to jail and anything else that goes with it.. That is the bottom line.

thats a little harsh, where is true freedom when you are being force to do something you don't want no part of. and worst your taken to jail, which is basically taking your freedom anyways. nowadays are better theres no draft, we don't need it, volunteers are good enough. but in another point of view maybe a draft was neccesary back then. i'm just glad i'm in this generation not the past.

Right....I volunteered and joined the Army in 1993...near the end of the Gulf War..I wanted to serve...but always remember this..a draft gets a better variety of people into the military overall....and if there comes a time when no one wants to stand up for the freedoms of this country we will have a draft again...we almost had one a few years ago and it is still in talks....We don't have a problem enjoying or even eploiting our freedoms..freedom isn't free...in fact it is the hardest thing to have.....you have to fight for freedom....

[ICEMAN JDS]

Hey, BIGRAGU, no offense but you are obviously a younger guy who has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what he is talking about in regard to Ali and the war.. none...at...all. First of all, ALI didn't dodge war because he never, ever would have been in battle and two...freedom? You fought for freedom? Sure you did because you are a white guy in post vietnam america. You and your (our) ancestors have been free for all time. Ali grew up in a time when black people couldnt eat in restaurant, or drink out of water fountains...you expected him to go to vietnam and risk life and linb for what freedom? Freedom to eat in the freaking alley with the dogs and cats? Seriously... save that nonsense you learned from your dad and uncles and granpa and learn about REAL history sometime.

[sweet science]

1) " Ali was stripped of from his title due to racism"

News to me and anyone else who followed his career

fact:

Malcolm X instructed his peopleto distance themselves from the brash, Ali until after the Liston fight, just in case he lost

WRONG.. eliga muhammed (spelling) was the guy who told everyone to stay away from the liston fight he even told X to stay away for the reasons you have stated but Malcolm was ringside and the only one there to support the 1/10 underdog.

In 1964, Ali failed the Armed Forces qualifying test because his writing and spelling skills were subpar.

seems kinda the smart thing to do if you dont want to get inducted

His poems and rhymes were considered juvenile and simple minded.

WRONG his work today is held in high regards i think he is also responsible for writing the shorted poem ever

3) He is often presented as being one of the kindest,nicest people ever,even taking on "Gandhi" like attributes

as a boxer you kidding me KIND but he was later on in life don all sorts of stuf including flying over to to get the USA soldier being held captive by Sadam

Seeing a shaking and drooling Ali, a once champion boxer and well known personality,reduced to the mental ability of a cooked turnip certainly invokes feelings of sadness and even pity.

i take it this is for effect


to sum up most people who followed Ali know what he was about

saddo, i couldn't have said it better myself. and as if we need any armed forces test or other people's opinions to make solid estimates of the greatness that was Ali. anyone lacking respect for Ali should ask himself/herself what is it about himself/herself that causes aversion to Ali, but please, not on our time.

[landmine950]

THATS THE EXACT REASON THAT I DID THIS POST!

statements like that one!

"the greatness that was Ali"

Its not about respect or lack of it for Ali.
(I'm sure I watched more live televised Ali fights at the time and listened to more commentary than any person here, (I'm 46))
And certainly not an aversion...
Just trying to provide a sense of balance. thats all...
The mythical proportions the guy has taken on....it's just over the top..
"the greatness that was........ALI"........Geeeesh..

I didn't want to start a Vietnam war post. Or Anti- ALI
I just refuse to worship at the alter....."that is.......ALI....."
Hey if you want to... fill your boots dude..

How come my post about ALI being Irish (like me) went almost
unnoticed??

[Samson3000]

Funny fact about Ali's reaction to the Ali-Marciano computer simulated dream bout.

The computer simulation fight was based on one which took place in 1969 which pitted Muhammad Ali against Rocky Marciano. Every possible scenario was considered and filmed and the computer decided that Marciano would win in the 13th round. When told of the result, Ali retorted "that computer was made in Alabama".

[sweet science]

THATS THE EXACT REASON THAT I DID THIS POST!

statements like that one!

"the greatness that was Ali"

Its not about respect or lack of it for Ali.
(I'm sure I watched more live televised Ali fights at the time and listened to more commentary than any person here, (I'm 46))
And certainly not an aversion...
Just trying to provide a sense of balance. thats all...

What do you mean by balance? Do you sense people do not see Ali as human, such that pointing out flaws in him as a person is worthwhile?

The mythical proportions the guy has taken on....it's just over the top..
"the greatness that was........ALI"........Geeeesh..
[/quote]
so, Ali wasn't great? Please let us know which boxer is markedly more deserved of legendary status, or "mythical proportions" to use your phrase, then Ali.

[landmine950]

No one should have their history distorted by time, popularity or a sense of political correctness.
Stay factual, thats all.
Keep the myths to Elvis, Bigfoot and The Loch Ness Monster

Was Ali a great boxer? Of Course.


The greatest ever? All time? If you want to think that, like many others thats OK by me.

But then Kenny Norton must be a Legend too right? he Beat a Prime Ali and In the rematch lost a close Split decision with one judge having him winning the fight. Don't forget that Norton was the #1 contender to Fight Leon Spinks, WBC stripped Leon of the title cuz he chose to fight Ali instead. "Ducking" Norton and denying him the title shot against a fighter with 7 fights!!! (6-1) Thats where Ali got the 3 time champion bit.

Frazier went 44 rounds with Ali and won the first fight. Mythical proportions for "Smokin Joe?" ..where are they?

Leon Spinks? Ali was only 36. Same age as when Holmes fought Micheal! Leon only had 7 pro fights! 6 wins and a loss!!! weighed 197!
Such a big deal? HE LOST THE FIRST FIGHT TO A GUY WITH 6 WINS!
Leon finished up 26-17-3!
the rematch he won?? against a guy with 7 fights? BIG DEAL!
Is this what Legendary fighters are made from?
When Larry Holmes lost to Micheal ,Larry was 48-0! and Micheal had 27 wins with no losses!!

Ali was only 38/39 when he lost to Holmes and Berbick
Larry Holmes fought friggin' Tyson when Larry was age 35, Tyson was 32 and 0 at the time! then Larry had 24 fights after that!!!
Including Evander,Oliver McCall,Ribalto,Ray Mercer!
Larry fought Mercer when Larry was 39 in 1992 dude!!! Mercer is getting ready to fight RAhman NOW!
Holmes fought most every year from age 35 to age 52 went 21-3 all after age 38! When people were making excuses for the "GREATEST" because he was SOOO old

Is Ali waaayyy better than all these guys? And so many other that could be mentioned in the HW division alone.. What About JC Chavez? I could go on for a long time and name maybe, I dunno 50 fighters, who could be argued to be better,as good, or at least in the same league as ALI. If you don't think so thats OK....IS ALI .WAAAYYYY BETTTEERRR?? A different level of greatness?? I just don't think so
"the greatness that was Ali" and comments and opinions so often expressed about the man are just too over the top for me.
I don't AT ALL dislike the guy, I like him. His style wasn't my favorite but I always admired his GUTS.

So now I suppose since I DARED even suggest that there might be other fighters out there who I should have the audacity to suggest belong in the same conversation with "The GREATNESS" I'll get the sh1t, sad clicked out of me again?? Go Ahead....fill your boots.

Oh Ya,Just for those who don't know the 4 original "items" I chose to comment on are all direct quotes taken from posts ON THIS FORUM.