Why does everybody overate Hagler so much on here?

[clean]

Don't get me wrong he was a great fighter(among the best). He was relatively fast, amazing chin, good boxer, and a better brawler, accurate, but besides being the best middleweight who stayed at the weight he was not the best. The fight with Duran or the fight Leonard should prove that. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, and still gave Hagler all he could handle. To say he could handle Roy IMO is ludicrous because Roy was way better than either Hearns and Leonard were by the time they went up to middleweight. He harder than Hearns, and he was faster than middleweight Leonard. Not only that Hearns buckled Hagler's knees, and Duran made him feel his punches so I don't see how his chin is as good as James Toney's who hasn't been hurt like Hagler was against Hearns at heavyweight against a 240 pound guy known for his punching power. I still say that if Hearns hadn't broken his hand it would have been a different fight between him and Hagler because he couldn't hit as hard after that.

The man had close to 70 pro fights and yet you choose only 2 to define him as not being great There will never be anyone who lives who, if they fight the best competition out there, will look great in every outing. Fighters have off nights like any other athletes, and the thing is, an off night will cost most champions their titles, whereas Hagler STILL won (yes, I'm one of the people who think he was robbed against SRL). And let's not forget that the Leonard fight was the man's last fight, a man who again, had almost SEVENTY pro fights. Leonard himself trained and remained in fighting condition during his entire three year hiatus, it's not like he just rolled out of bed one morning after retirement and went through a grueling training program to shave off 35 lbs then challenge Hagler. Furthermore, when you have to go through such detail as to trying to notice a time when a fighter's knees buckled, because you can't come up with anything more substantial, that alone proves the man was a machine. Like it or not, the words Hagler and overrated go together like Butterbean and graceful.

[smashcrusher]

Don't get me wrong he was a great fighter(among the best). He was relatively fast, amazing chin, good boxer, and a better brawler, accurate, but besides being the best middleweight who stayed at the weight he was not the best. The fight with Duran or the fight Leonard should prove that. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, and still gave Hagler all he could handle. To say he could handle Roy IMO is ludicrous because Roy was way better than either Hearns and Leonard were by the time they went up to middleweight. He harder than Hearns, and he was faster than middleweight Leonard. Not only that Hearns buckled Hagler's knees, and Duran made him feel his punches so I don't see how his chin is as good as James Toney's who hasn't been hurt like Hagler was against Hearns at heavyweight against a 240 pound guy known for his punching power. I still say that if Hearns hadn't broken his hand it would have been a different fight between him and Hagler because he couldn't hit as hard after that.

Manny Stewart himself said on Legendary Nights, the second he saw Hearns crush Hagler with that right hand in the opening round and Hagler didn't go anywhere, he knew the fight was lost. Tommy Hearns had neither the stamina nor the composure to survive the pressure of a Marvin Hagler.

[skyler]

Don't get me wrong he was a great fighter(among the best). He was relatively fast, amazing chin, good boxer, and a better brawler, accurate, but besides being the best middleweight who stayed at the weight he was not the best. The fight with Duran or the fight Leonard should prove that. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, and still gave Hagler all he could handle. To say he could handle Roy IMO is ludicrous because Roy was way better than either Hearns and Leonard were by the time they went up to middleweight. He harder than Hearns, and he was faster than middleweight Leonard. Not only that Hearns buckled Hagler's knees, and Duran made him feel his punches so I don't see how his chin is as good as James Toney's who hasn't been hurt like Hagler was against Hearns at heavyweight against a 240 pound guy known for his punching power. I still say that if Hearns hadn't broken his hand it would have been a different fight between him and Hagler because he couldn't hit as hard after that.

Oh my god man, this is the most absurd post I've read on this board. There's always some fan who will say so and so ducked a certain fighter, and will hate on him for that reason. There's other fans who will say so and so got a gift decision, and will hate that way. You, my friend, are the first person I think I've ever seen who actually will take a knockout victory from someone, and find a way to hate on the winner by saying (if so and so hadn't broken his hand ) Who gives a f@#k if he broke his hand, he got KTFO. We're talking about a man in Hearns who 1; in 2 fights could not even knock out little Sugar Ray Leonard, and 2; a man in Marvin Hagler who had never even been legitamately dropped (let alone KOd) in his entire career. I also find it funny that some people from Hearns camp pathetically now try to leak a story about him getting a massage the night before and that's why he got tired. I mean make up your mind. Which excuse is it, the broken hand, or the homoerotic massage?

[Trainer Monkey]

I agree he is a great, but not the greatest and Leonard proved that. Though I think Hagler fought the wrong fight at the begining thats part of the fight game. I think he would also had a very difficult time with Hopkins who is another guy who could box on the outside and on the inside.

Ok compairing any one to mid to late career B-hop isnt fair(Jones caught him when they were both pretty green,and if he won it was barely)Bhop has an ability to tailor his game plan to the fighter at hand like few others.He can get in to a mugging festival like the Philly fighter everyone used to assume he was,or he can snipe you from the outside like a master.
In recent years the only time he guessed wrong,was assuming that Taylor would be the aggressive fighter everyone thought he was,and he still won one of those fights(if not both)
Certain guys are just one of a kinders,or to give an example,I make my fighters watch tape on Ali,usually at some point I feel compelled to say "And if you EVER try that,Ill kill you myself"

[RozzySean]

I don't think he is overrated at all. I think people know his strengths and weaknesses. His strengths were his southpaw stance, boxing skills and then his determination was incredible. he also had nice short punches and had rare physical strength which exceeded his punching power. His power was good, but his physical strength seemed to overwhelm guys. The only fighter I have seen with the Hagler determination is Evander Holyfield. his weakness? Hagler could be a little robotic at times when he was passive and not moving forward. But that was rare. he was a great fighter with a good reach 75 inches and a great chin and almost unbeatable from 1981-1987. The reason the Hearns fight means so much to showing the Hagler greatness is because everything Hagler did well was seen in that fight. He started to almost hate Hearns and his motivation and determination and power and everything came together in that fight for one night. That fight showcases Hagler's best skills. Not his boxing skills since he brawled, but his best skills as a fighter -his determination mainly. In someways it is too bad Leonard beat Marvin when Marvin was slowing down alot and inactive, since it makes people think that if Leonard could beat him any boxer could. Leonard would not have beaten him in 1985 when Hagler was active. yet the young Leonard of 1982 would have outboxed Marvin, but Ray outboxed everyone. Most guys could not have outboxed Marvin except Ray when Marvin was what I consider prime in 1981-1985.

cc. Great post.

[RozzySean]

Taeth as much as a enjoy your comments I think you are showing your a** on this one.

I don't understand how? I'm saying he's an ATG, and that he beat some good fighters, and he was as complete a package as they came. However because in certain aspects such as speed some guys were still so much more superior than him that they would beat him because of a certain advantage that why he is overrated because he can't beat anyone at middleweight, and Leonard proved that.

Leonard didn't prove crap. Leonard proved that he could wait until Hagler had been through one war to many, throw ineffective, weak shoeshine punches, and steal a fight. In that fight, Hagler beat Hagler. Hagler didn't fight a smart enough or active enough fight, and he still won the fight IMO by one or two rounds. He let Ray steal that one, bottom line, and if they would have fought before those battles and age took the edge of Hagler, Ray would only proved the could count light on the ceiling.

But as usual, Taeth, you have a good point point mixed into your madness. Hagler, though he had twice the heart, would have probably lost to Jones, prime for prime, though I would pick him to beat Hopkins.

Leonard was probably more past it then Hagler was at that time.

Sorry to be abrupt on this one, but you are just wrong. Consider this. Leonard had taken time off to heal his eye before the Hagler fight. The only reason he retired was the eye. Physically, he was still in great shape, he still had his handspeed, skill, and legs. Leonard was 2 years younger and had 2 fights in the previous 6 years. Hagler had 9, including Duran, Hearns and Mugabi. Leonard was certainly a past his peak, but he was getting Hagler coming off two of greatest wars of all time. Literally, two of the greatest wars of all time, at an age when that REALLY matters. Leonard was 33-1 at the time. 34 Fights. Hagler was 61-3. 64 Fights. Hagler was at the end. Leonard has been clear about this, too. He admits that after the Mugabi fight, he knew Hagler was ripe for the picking. Say what you will about Ray, but the guy is pretty bright.

Still think Hagler was more past it?

[BIG H]

Some strange arguments on here. Firstly Toney took shots from Heavyweight - WHEN HE WAS A HEAVYWEIGHT. He had stonger neck muscles and 4 more stone to take a punch - so it's a sh1t argument

...and now Halger overrtated pleeeeeeeezz?

What more could a fighter do to warrant their place as one of the 2 greatest middleweights of all time? His only slight blemish is Leonard and that doesn't mean sh1t to me, Ali had far more than 1 bad day at the office and not many people (except Ice ) think he was overrated

[DarkDestroyer]

Hagler is one of the best MW ever.
He ruled supreme for his time.
In the fight with SRL you could notice he saw the openings but couldn't get his shots of in time to catch Ray.
If ever, SRL was a sharp observer and could see the demise in fighters before they saw it themselfs
Nevertheless, Marvin is a alltime great

[Tysonbruno]

Hagler is one of the best MW ever.
He ruled supreme for his time.
In the fight with SRL you could notice he saw the openings but couldn't get his shots of in time to catch Ray.
If ever, SRL was a sharp observer and could see the demise in fighters before they saw it themselfs
Nevertheless, Marvin is a alltime great

Correct have CC

[DarkDestroyer]

My sincere thanks my friend

[Trainer Monkey]

Hagler is one of the best MW ever.
He ruled supreme for his time.
In the fight with SRL you could notice he saw the openings but couldn't get his shots of in time to catch Ray.
If ever, SRL was a sharp observer and could see the demise in fighters before they saw it themselfs
Nevertheless, Marvin is a alltime great

Everybody loses sooner or later,doesnt diminish the rest of their body of work one iota

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

When did Hearns buckle Hagler's knees... He fwockin walked through all the shots Tommy through til his hand broke... I don't know if I've ever seen Hagler hurt...

[Taeth]

Taeth as much as a enjoy your comments I think you are showing your a** on this one.

I don't understand how? I'm saying he's an ATG, and that he beat some good fighters, and he was as complete a package as they came. However because in certain aspects such as speed some guys were still so much more superior than him that they would beat him because of a certain advantage that why he is overrated because he can't beat anyone at middleweight, and Leonard proved that.

Leonard didn't prove crap. Leonard proved that he could wait until Hagler had been through one war to many, throw ineffective, weak shoeshine punches, and steal a fight. In that fight, Hagler beat Hagler. Hagler didn't fight a smart enough or active enough fight, and he still won the fight IMO by one or two rounds. He let Ray steal that one, bottom line, and if they would have fought before those battles and age took the edge of Hagler, Ray would only proved the could count light on the ceiling.

But as usual, Taeth, you have a good point point mixed into your madness. Hagler, though he had twice the heart, would have probably lost to Jones, prime for prime, though I would pick him to beat Hopkins.

I disagree that Hagler was through too many wars. He never tired in the fight, and he didn't look like any less of a fighter than in previous fights. I think he had his difficulties with Leonard's speed, and he opted to box for three rounds which he shouldn't have. Leonard comming back after 3 years off is something substantial, and why I put Leonard above all of the Fab Four. He beat them all.

I said Hopkins would give him a hard fight, but I don't think Hopkins would beat him. ALso I said that he was an ATG so what are people talking about me not saying he is. He is the best middleweight who stayed at the weight ever.

Pride of Boston wants to know when Hearns buckled Hagler? In the very first round with his first right hand I believe which was the one that broke his hand. Skyler that was my only excuse for him, and I have stated no other ones have I? It seems funny that with one punch he could almost bring Hagler down yet after that he couldn't keep Hagler off him.. it doesn't add up.

What have I said that was so outrageous? THat he doesn't have the chin to take Peter's punch or that he couldn't beat Leonard?

[LegendBoxing65]

When did Hearns buckle Hagler's knees... He fwockin walked through all the shots Tommy through til his hand broke... I don't know if I've ever seen Hagler hurt...

I saw it.. When the first round started Hagler started to rush Hearns,, and he had Tommy against the ropes maybe 20 seconds into the fight and was throwing punches and Tommy started to unleash also and he hit Marvin with an uppercut and then a cleaner punch on the top of Marvin's head and Marvin's right leg came out from under him and he ducked and backed out and was dazed.. And he definetely was hurt. He sort of brushed the part of his face where he was hit and he was hit hard, but he regrouped and came on even stronger to his credit.

[smashcrusher]

Taeth as much as a enjoy your comments I think you are showing your a** on this one.

I don't understand how? I'm saying he's an ATG, and that he beat some good fighters, and he was as complete a package as they came. However because in certain aspects such as speed some guys were still so much more superior than him that they would beat him because of a certain advantage that why he is overrated because he can't beat anyone at middleweight, and Leonard proved that.

Leonard didn't prove crap. Leonard proved that he could wait until Hagler had been through one war to many, throw ineffective, weak shoeshine punches, and steal a fight. In that fight, Hagler beat Hagler. Hagler didn't fight a smart enough or active enough fight, and he still won the fight IMO by one or two rounds. He let Ray steal that one, bottom line, and if they would have fought before those battles and age took the edge of Hagler, Ray would only proved the could count light on the ceiling.

But as usual, Taeth, you have a good point point mixed into your madness. Hagler, though he had twice the heart, would have probably lost to Jones, prime for prime, though I would pick him to beat Hopkins.

I disagree that Hagler was through too many wars. He never tired in the fight, and he didn't look like any less of a fighter than in previous fights. I think he had his difficulties with Leonard's speed, and he opted to box for three rounds which he shouldn't have. Leonard comming back after 3 years off is something substantial, and why I put Leonard above all of the Fab Four. He beat them all.

I said Hopkins would give him a hard fight, but I don't think Hopkins would beat him. ALso I said that he was an ATG so what are people talking about me not saying he is. He is the best middleweight who stayed at the weight ever.

Pride of Boston wants to know when Hearns buckled Hagler? In the very first round with his first right hand I believe which was the one that broke his hand. Skyler that was my only excuse for him, and I have stated no other ones have I? It seems funny that with one punch he could almost bring Hagler down yet after that he couldn't keep Hagler off him.. it doesn't add up.

What have I said that was so outrageous? THat he doesn't have the chin to take Peter's punch or that he couldn't beat Leonard?

Dude, quit while you're behind, you're now simply spewing bullsh!t