PACQUIAO – THE BEST IN THE WORLD?

[Taeth]

Let's wait what Pacstraight and Penalosafan say about this.

As pacman fans, there will be great rejoicing in our camp if this happens.

Currently, I do agree that PBF deserves the top spot. I have NO problem with that. But Manny is younger and will achieve more that would put him as one of the greats.

Mayweather picks on fighters he thinks he can beat while pac fights anyone who gives him the biggest paycheck. Until Mayweather takes on the best fighters out there, I won't put him at the top. And his fans making the same ol' lame excuses for him won't help him either. Actually, they have a completely opposite stlyles. Pac comes forward just a little too much, while Mayweather goes backward just a bit too much. But a choice between a charger and a runner? Com'on, this is boxing, not a sissy running competition. ...just defending my boy. Now if you Mayweather boys want us pacfools to be kind to your boy, then be kind to our boy. Peace.

To both of your comments up to this point. How is fighting Barrera again fighting the best fighter out there or MOrrales a third time? Or Solis? Or Larios? I know of a lot more people who wanted Mayweather to clearly win the welterweight division which he did, A lot of people wanted him to face Oscar Dela Hoya which he did. A lot of people want him to fight Hatton which he is doing. I have no doubt he will face the winner of Cotto-Mosley or the winner of that fight facing Paul Williams and then fighting that person. And Mayweather backs up too much? Leonard, Roy Jones Jr., Muhammad Ali, Pernell Whitaker, many times Ray Robinson all fought off their back foot especially in the case of the smaller guys fighting this far above their natural weight. Regarding Pacquaio its not that he comes forward too much, its that he doesn't always keep a solid defence. In his fight with Morrales the third time he had pretty good defense, but when he gets to throwing those combinations he is wide open. Luckily neither Barrera nor Morrales are elite level pure counter punchers with great speed or Pacquaio wouldn't be in our top 10 p4p right now. Pacquaio has a lot of skills that he deservingly gets #2, but he is still a long shot away from Mayweather.

Also Pacquaio may be 2-3 years younger, but his style of boxing and his lifestyle give him(considering history) only 2 or 3 more years of greatness. Mayweather has to adapt far less to maintain his dominance for the next 5-10 years.

[Mr140]

Are you crazy Mayweather did not clearly win the welterweight division he beat Baldomor and Zab so that makes him best at welter are you kidding me he hasn't even faced Cotto, Williams, Cintron, and Mosley all he has done at welter is beat a juryman and a guy who has not won in i dont know how long

[:::PSL:::]

Are you crazy Mayweather did not clearly win the welterweight division he beat Baldomor and Zab so that makes him best at welter are you kidding me he hasn't even faced Cotto, Williams, Cintron, and Mosley all he has done at welter is beat a juryman and a guy who has not won in i dont know how long

Well said.

Taeth kinda pissed me off. Mr140's comment actually hit me and made me changed my mind about floyd being on top spot.

To all the Floyd sycophants I have this to say: I don’t hate Floyd but I think someone with his talent and ability, which is enormous, should fight the best available competition. He got by Judah and Baldomir- 2 very good welters I might add his last one with Goldielocks too. That’s great - but there are more guys to beat in that division before he can be anointed KING. I believe he avoided the PEAK Margarito consistently and if the TJ Tornado was such an easy fight why didn’t he roll through him for an easy $8M score? He didn’t do that because he knew Margarito was much too risky a proposition that may have cost him his shot at the Golden Boy. Floyd was good 130 pounder. He fought the best there. He is okay in that division. At 135, I thought he got a gift against Jose Luis Castillo, and I layed the 4-1 on Floyd in that fight, and he won a close nod in the rematch. He fought 3 fights at 140 and beat Corley, Bruseles and Gatti, respectively. All good fighters, but certainly not the best in that division. He bypassed Kostya Tszyu and Ricky Hatton at 140 so he declined to prove he was the best there. Somethin like Mr140 said, he’s beaten some very good welters but has not beaten the very best in that division. My issue with him is that claims to be the very best fighter in the world while he actively avoids certain fights, and clearly hasn’t beaten the best in the welterweight division. If he does eventually beat them, I’ll give him that credit and tip my hat to him. I just think his actions contradict his statements. He finally got the fight he wanted for personal and monetary reasons (which is fine) by getting the fight with Hatton. If he wins, he’ll rationalize that he’s done it all and will most likely retire. I understand he’s done enough to be a Hall of Famer but, except for Hatton, I don’t think he’s willing to fight guys that can REALLY test him at this point in time. I don’t respect that in a great fighter, simple as that. He should be willing to test himself against all comers based on his statements - but he doesn’t. But all time great fighters want to fight the very best and not bullshit the unsuspecting (and I’m being kind) public. And as I said, he did well @ 130-135 but he never proved that he was the best at 140 and has yet to prove he reigns supreme at Welterweight. You can’t just say you are the greatest and not fight the best guys. It’s that simple. I don’t think Manny Pacquiao will be ducking anybody which is why he has passed Floyd as the best in the world.

[frozensolid_702]

Are you crazy Mayweather did not clearly win the welterweight division he beat Baldomor and Zab so that makes him best at welter are you kidding me he hasn't even faced Cotto, Williams, Cintron, and Mosley all he has done at welter is beat a juryman and a guy who has not won in i dont know how long

Are you crazy??

Or have you just not been watching boxing for very long??


Allow me to educate you since you obviously weren't following boxing back then, or you wouldn't have made that post.


When Floyd Mayweather originally signed to fight Zab Judah, Judah was LINEAR WELTERWEIGHT CHAMPION of the world.

The Judah fight was signed before Zab's supposed tune-up with Baldomir.

Zab loses "tune-up," but the Mayweather vs. Judah fight goes on anyways because it was already signed, and the venue (Thomas and Mack) was already set.

Mayweather goes on to beat Judah, but Baldomir was Linear welterweight champion because he beat Judah (unless you think Ring Magazine doesn't know what they were talking about)

Mayweather goes on to fight/dominate Baldomir (Cotto, Cintron, and Williams were barely scratching the surface of the welterweight division at the time, and weren't ANYBODY in that division. You would know this if you were following boxing back then ) and that makes Floyd Mayweather LINEAR WELTERWEIGHT CHAMPION of the world.






Read what I just posted and absorb it. That way when you post in the future, you might actually sound like you know what your're talking about.

[ICB]

Are you crazy Mayweather did not clearly win the welterweight division he beat Baldomor and Zab so that makes him best at welter are you kidding me he hasn't even faced Cotto, Williams, Cintron, and Mosley all he has done at welter is beat a juryman and a guy who has not won in i dont know how long

Well said.

Taeth kinda pissed me off. Mr140's comment actually hit me and made me changed my mind about floyd being on top spot.

To all the Floyd sycophants I have this to say: I don’t hate Floyd but I think someone with his talent and ability, which is enormous, should fight the best available competition. He got by Judah and Baldomir- 2 very good welters I might add his last one with Goldielocks too. That’s great - but there are more guys to beat in that division before he can be anointed KING. I believe he avoided the PEAK Margarito consistently and if the TJ Tornado was such an easy fight why didn’t he roll through him for an easy $8M score? He didn’t do that because he knew Margarito was much too risky a proposition that may have cost him his shot at the Golden Boy. Floyd was good 130 pounder. He fought the best there. He is okay in that division. At 135, I thought he got a gift against Jose Luis Castillo, and I layed the 4-1 on Floyd in that fight, and he won a close nod in the rematch. He fought 3 fights at 140 and beat Corley, Bruseles and Gatti, respectively. All good fighters, but certainly not the best in that division. He bypassed Kostya Tszyu and Ricky Hatton at 140 so he declined to prove he was the best there. Somethin like Mr140 said, he’s beaten some very good welters but has not beaten the very best in that division. My issue with him is that claims to be the very best fighter in the world while he actively avoids certain fights, and clearly hasn’t beaten the best in the welterweight division. If he does eventually beat them, I’ll give him that credit and tip my hat to him. I just think his actions contradict his statements. He finally got the fight he wanted for personal and monetary reasons (which is fine) by getting the fight with Hatton. If he wins, he’ll rationalize that he’s done it all and will most likely retire. I understand he’s done enough to be a Hall of Famer but, except for Hatton, I don’t think he’s willing to fight guys that can REALLY test him at this point in time. I don’t respect that in a great fighter, simple as that. He should be willing to test himself against all comers based on his statements - but he doesn’t. But all time great fighters want to fight the very best and not bullshit the unsuspecting (and I’m being kind) public. And as I said, he did well @ 130-135 but he never proved that he was the best at 140 and has yet to prove he reigns supreme at Welterweight. You can’t just say you are the greatest and not fight the best guys. It’s that simple. I don’t think Manny Pacquiao will be ducking anybody which is why he has passed Floyd as the best in the world.

Im going to copy and paste what i said and ask you who else was there at Lightwelterweight or Welterweight.


To be honest Gamo there wern't really anyone at Lightwelterweight except for Hatton because Tszyu retired and that fight is happening now anyway as for Welterweight there wasn't really anyone either Cotto was still too green Williams was still too green and Margarito was calling him out but Margarito hadn't done a damn thing Mayweather hasn't ducked anyone and has beat good fighters and also goodish opposition to be honest bro can you name many fighters that have achieved and beat as many quality opposition as Mayweather ??

Genaro Hernandez
Diego Corrales
Carlos Hernandez
Angel Manfredy
Jesus Chavez
Jose Luis Castillo
Victoriano Sosa
Oscar De La Hoya
Carlos Baldomir
Zab Judah
Arturo Gatti
Sharmba Mitchell
Phillip N'dou

Ok so few of them aren't greatest fighters in the world but these aren't a bad set of names to have on your record if you ask me.

Only other fights that could of happened are.

Paul Spadafora
Joel Casamayor
Antonio Margarito

And even these fights wouldn't of been easy to make except the Margarito fight but that wouldn't of done anything for Mayweather.

[Taeth]

Are you crazy Mayweather did not clearly win the welterweight division he beat Baldomor and Zab so that makes him best at welter are you kidding me he hasn't even faced Cotto, Williams, Cintron, and Mosley all he has done at welter is beat a juryman and a guy who has not won in i dont know how long

Well said.

Taeth kinda pissed me off. Mr140's comment actually hit me and made me changed my mind about floyd being on top spot.

To all the Floyd sycophants I have this to say: I don’t hate Floyd but I think someone with his talent and ability, which is enormous, should fight the best available competition. He got by Judah and Baldomir- 2 very good welters I might add his last one with Goldielocks too. That’s great - but there are more guys to beat in that division before he can be anointed KING. I believe he avoided the PEAK Margarito consistently and if the TJ Tornado was such an easy fight why didn’t he roll through him for an easy $8M score? He didn’t do that because he knew Margarito was much too risky a proposition that may have cost him his shot at the Golden Boy. Floyd was good 130 pounder. He fought the best there. He is okay in that division. At 135, I thought he got a gift against Jose Luis Castillo, and I layed the 4-1 on Floyd in that fight, and he won a close nod in the rematch. He fought 3 fights at 140 and beat Corley, Bruseles and Gatti, respectively. All good fighters, but certainly not the best in that division. He bypassed Kostya Tszyu and Ricky Hatton at 140 so he declined to prove he was the best there. Somethin like Mr140 said, he’s beaten some very good welters but has not beaten the very best in that division. My issue with him is that claims to be the very best fighter in the world while he actively avoids certain fights, and clearly hasn’t beaten the best in the welterweight division. If he does eventually beat them, I’ll give him that credit and tip my hat to him. I just think his actions contradict his statements. He finally got the fight he wanted for personal and monetary reasons (which is fine) by getting the fight with Hatton. If he wins, he’ll rationalize that he’s done it all and will most likely retire. I understand he’s done enough to be a Hall of Famer but, except for Hatton, I don’t think he’s willing to fight guys that can REALLY test him at this point in time. I don’t respect that in a great fighter, simple as that. He should be willing to test himself against all comers based on his statements - but he doesn’t. But all time great fighters want to fight the very best and not bullshit the unsuspecting (and I’m being kind) public. And as I said, he did well @ 130-135 but he never proved that he was the best at 140 and has yet to prove he reigns supreme at Welterweight. You can’t just say you are the greatest and not fight the best guys. It’s that simple. I don’t think Manny Pacquiao will be ducking anybody which is why he has passed Floyd as the best in the world.

How can you say he ducked Margarito? Oscar is a million times better than Margarito and Mayweather fought and beat him convincingly at a higher weight than welterweight. Margarito IMO looked horrible against Paul Williams who would give anyone a good fight, but he made Margarito look silly for all the bitching he's done trying to get a fight with Mayweather. There was no Reason for Mayweather to fight him as I've already stated that would have done nothing for Mayweather's reputation because had he beaten Margarito 120-108 and it would have been close to that people would have just said Margarito was overrated(which he was) like Jeff Lacy(which he was). About Mayweather ducking Tszyu I disagree... Hatton got to him first, and then Mayweather was looking for a fight with Zab Judah which he made, and then he wanted a fight with Oscar. Now that he is done doing what he set out to do he is cleaning up what he left behind in Hatton then likely Mosley or Cotto. Pacquaio shouldn't have fought Solis or Larios, and neither of them count in the same opposition as Baldomir, Zab Judah, but better than Sharmba Mitchell. Also his fight with MOrrales in the third one was predecided I was saying Morrales was going to get ko'ed early the minute they mentioned that fight. As for Pacquaio fighting Barrera its a good fight to be made, but why not fight JMM who by the records beat Barrera, and tied Pacquaio in their last fight, or why not give some new blood a chance. If he fights the winner of Soto-Guzman then he is fighting the next challenger, but right now he is fighting man he has beaten and a man who can't keep up with him. Regardless of all this Mayweather is the better boxer, and p4p he would beat Pacquaio no question. This is why he is p4p #1 by a fair margin(probably a league).

[Mr140]

Listen frozen i ment now he is not the number one welter i think it is a toss up my friend

[BoxingNewbie894]

well, he need to win on his upcoming fight if he still want to be in the running...he said he's the King of the Ring...then he must prove it

[:::PSL:::]

Are you crazy Mayweather did not clearly win the welterweight division he beat Baldomor and Zab so that makes him best at welter are you kidding me he hasn't even faced Cotto, Williams, Cintron, and Mosley all he has done at welter is beat a juryman and a guy who has not won in i dont know how long

Well said.

Taeth kinda pissed me off. Mr140's comment actually hit me and made me changed my mind about floyd being on top spot.

To all the Floyd sycophants I have this to say: I don’t hate Floyd but I think someone with his talent and ability, which is enormous, should fight the best available competition. He got by Judah and Baldomir- 2 very good welters I might add his last one with Goldielocks too. That’s great - but there are more guys to beat in that division before he can be anointed KING. I believe he avoided the PEAK Margarito consistently and if the TJ Tornado was such an easy fight why didn’t he roll through him for an easy $8M score? He didn’t do that because he knew Margarito was much too risky a proposition that may have cost him his shot at the Golden Boy. Floyd was good 130 pounder. He fought the best there. He is okay in that division. At 135, I thought he got a gift against Jose Luis Castillo, and I layed the 4-1 on Floyd in that fight, and he won a close nod in the rematch. He fought 3 fights at 140 and beat Corley, Bruseles and Gatti, respectively. All good fighters, but certainly not the best in that division. He bypassed Kostya Tszyu and Ricky Hatton at 140 so he declined to prove he was the best there. Somethin like Mr140 said, he’s beaten some very good welters but has not beaten the very best in that division. My issue with him is that claims to be the very best fighter in the world while he actively avoids certain fights, and clearly hasn’t beaten the best in the welterweight division. If he does eventually beat them, I’ll give him that credit and tip my hat to him. I just think his actions contradict his statements. He finally got the fight he wanted for personal and monetary reasons (which is fine) by getting the fight with Hatton. If he wins, he’ll rationalize that he’s done it all and will most likely retire. I understand he’s done enough to be a Hall of Famer but, except for Hatton, I don’t think he’s willing to fight guys that can REALLY test him at this point in time. I don’t respect that in a great fighter, simple as that. He should be willing to test himself against all comers based on his statements - but he doesn’t. But all time great fighters want to fight the very best and not bullshit the unsuspecting (and I’m being kind) public. And as I said, he did well @ 130-135 but he never proved that he was the best at 140 and has yet to prove he reigns supreme at Welterweight. You can’t just say you are the greatest and not fight the best guys. It’s that simple. I don’t think Manny Pacquiao will be ducking anybody which is why he has passed Floyd as the best in the world.

How can you say he ducked Margarito? Oscar is a million times better than Margarito and Mayweather fought and beat him convincingly at a higher weight than welterweight. Margarito IMO looked horrible against Paul Williams who would give anyone a good fight, but he made Margarito look silly for all the bitching he's done trying to get a fight with Mayweather. There was no Reason for Mayweather to fight him as I've already stated that would have done nothing for Mayweather's reputation because had he beaten Margarito 120-108 and it would have been close to that people would have just said Margarito was overrated(which he was) like Jeff Lacy(which he was). About Mayweather ducking Tszyu I disagree... Hatton got to him first, and then Mayweather was looking for a fight with Zab Judah which he made, and then he wanted a fight with Oscar. Now that he is done doing what he set out to do he is cleaning up what he left behind in Hatton then likely Mosley or Cotto. Pacquaio shouldn't have fought Solis or Larios, and neither of them count in the same opposition as Baldomir, Zab Judah, but better than Sharmba Mitchell. Also his fight with MOrrales in the third one was predecided I was saying Morrales was going to get ko'ed early the minute they mentioned that fight. As for Pacquaio fighting Barrera its a good fight to be made, but why not fight JMM who by the records beat Barrera, and tied Pacquaio in their last fight, or why not give some new blood a chance. If he fights the winner of Soto-Guzman then he is fighting the next challenger, but right now he is fighting man he has beaten and a man who can't keep up with him. Regardless of all this Mayweather is the better boxer, and p4p he would beat Pacquaio no question. This is why he is p4p #1 by a fair margin(probably a league).

Larios and Solis were just good tune-up fights. PAC WILL CLEAN HIS DIVISION before summer of 09 no sweat tsk!, so don't worry about that. Floyd attracts derision not only for his personality or choice of opponents but overall because of his style. If we accept that Floyd through no fault of his own is predominately a defensive fighter which at the end of the day is looked upon by most fightfans as a NEGATIVE style of which he is undoubtly the best in world. Offensive fighters carry more excitement e.g Hatton, Pacman ODLH and are more POSITIVE in their gameplan and are ultimately more popular to the average fightfan. There lies the problem the best P4P fighter at the moment has the best defense and the arguments rage because he has not faced the best offensive fighters of the day. If and when he does this successfully, he will be accepted as a true great.

Floyd looks great against washed ups. looks bad against a worn version of an ATG like Oscar... Let's see how he looks against TOP YOUNG opponents like Cintron or Williams. I think there is a reason why he's so reluctant to fight hungry Margarito (his lost with tall long limb Williams will motivate him more), Cotto, Clottey (let's just see how he does with more agreesive Hatton). Because He won't look so great and might lose that precious fake "0" on his record.

To me, he is just an overrated fighter who hasnt fought a champion in their prime. He is a cherry picking phony..Gatti..Past it. Mitchell...Past it.. Baldomir..Never was any good in the first place...Oscar...Past it or even Judah who got beat by Cotto...Your man is a fake . Accept it and get over it.

[slk123]

Please, by all means, let the (most recently accused anyway) "hater" (btw, totally not true) chime in here.

floyd has gotten to the top by fighting limited opposition (imo and many others).

If he wants to clear up the mess he has left, let him do something more along the lines of what RJJ has accomplished.

RJJ
Started at MW and went all the way to HW for one fight only but he fought a champion at that time and he won. He was outweighed by @ 30lbs.

All floyd needs to do to earn the admiration of his many nuthuggers is to go up to SMW (that's splitting the 30lb weight difference in half which imo is more than fair), fight a champion and win. Hell, even I would be impressed with him then. Too much for the exhalted one you say? Ok then, how about MW. I'm sure he can beat any champion there at least, he's the almighty god of boxing right?

[frozensolid_702]

Please, by all means, let the (most recently accused anyway) "hater" (btw, totally not true) chime in here.

floyd has gotten to the top by fighting limited opposition (imo and many others).

If he wants to clear up the mess he has left, let him do something more along the lines of what RJJ has accomplished.

RJJ
Started at MW and went all the way to HW for one fight only but he fought a champion at that time and he won. He was outweighed by @ 30lbs.

All floyd needs to do to earn the admiration of his many fans is to go up to SMW (that's splitting the 30lb weight difference in half which imo is more than fair), fight a champion and win. Hell, even I would be impressed with him then. Too much for the exhalted one you say? Ok then, how about MW. I'm sure he can beat any champion there at least, he's the almighty god of boxing right?

Mayweather has fought from 129.5 lbs all the way up to 154 pounds (24.5lbs difference) against much better opposition than RJJ.




Seeing as how this is some Pacquio glory thread........... where does he fit in in your theory??

[Mr140]

hey hopkins and toney are better opistion then what ever floyde has face dude his best win is over a old oscar

[brucelee]

cc there pacstraight and penalosa fan. as always, you are dependable.

cc also to mr140. you stood your ground amidst strong opposition.

[brucelee]

cc also to ICB for his arguments.

edit:

cc to cutmemick for being open minded.

[frozensolid_702]

hey hopkins and toney are better opistion then what ever floyde has face dude his best win is over a old oscar

Mayweather has the ability to ruin fighters............... he's done it many times.


As for your claim of "an old Oscar," a 4 year difference in age isn't that big of a deal, bro. Especially when you consider that it was Mayweather's first fight at jr. middleweight (not bad for a blown up lightweight ) and he took on a champion of Oscar Delahoya's magnitude. Of course, I'm sure that you were one of the majority of people that thought that Delahoya was going to win that fight before it happened