Official : IceColcBoxing Vs BruceLee for Welterweight MMWC

[JT Rock]

Dont worry Bruce I will be walking you to the ring to make sure no one interferes

[brucelee]

so I have my bodyguard now? hehehe. thanks JT.

anyway, am actually beginning to think that winning this debate will bring me more harm than good.

can I give the win to ICB eventhough he hasn't responded yet and, even though, I could win this debate easily?

am really very sleepy now.be back tomorrow.I'll make the decision after I read ICB's reply.

[ICB]

I never quit Bruce no matter how hard it is

Hahaha. This is easy.

Better? with Floyd as the current champion? No wayyyyyyyyyy.

Floyd compared to Armstrong, Robinson, Basilio, Leonard and Duran is like blasphemy to boxing. I'm lost with words. This topic is not even debatable.

The welterweight MMWC title is mine. LOL.

Defend your boy ICB. For the meantime, that would be all for me.

Hahaha. This is easy.

Better? with Floyd as the current champion? No wayyyyyyyyyy.

Why not ?? he is probably one the best defensive fighters of all time probably even better than Pernell Whitaker P4P Mayweather has speed, power, he has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions not even the great Sugar Ray Robinson achieved that just because he isn't to everyones taste he is without a doubt the best Welterweight out there.


Floyd compared to Armstrong, Robinson, Basilio, Leonard and Duran is like blasphemy to boxing. I'm lost with words. This topic is not even debatable.

It is ?? well Mayweather is arguably a better fighter than all of these fighters P4P Duran was great Lightweight but when he moved up he lost to mediocre fighters like Robbie Simms and was completey outboxed by British Kirkland Laing, no doubt his victory over Leonard was great win but thats only because Duran called Leonard a pussy and Leonard got lured into a brawl in the 1st fight but when Leonard boxed his normal style he completey outboxed Duran and forced Duran to quit in the rematch and Leonard won the trilogy easily aswell Duran never quite made it when he moved up he also struggled with fast fighters and was made to look only goodish when he fought clever fast fighters and it showed when he was completey outboxed by Kirkland Laing.

Ray Robinson didn't even win as many world titles in as many divisions as Mayweather and Robinson's opposition is questionable at Welterweight name me one fighter he beat at Welterweight that stands out ??

Carmen Basilio 56 wins 27 KO 16 losses not a great record by any means he went 1-1 with Robinson which is good but Robinson was also 37 and it was obvisious he wasn't in his prime anymore except for going 1-1 with an aging Robinson who else did he beat that was really any good ?? sounds like he was one hit wonder.

Leonard ?? please the guy who ducked Aaron Pryor and moved up in weight to avoid Pryor ?? the guy who got gift decision against Hagler when Hagler was shot ?? or the guy who only fought Hearns in a rematch when he see Hearns get KO by Iran Barkley when he thought Hearns was shot and Leonard got a gift decision against Hearns Leonard was dropped twice by a shot Hearns and was outboxed in majority of the rounds basically Hearns was totally robbed.


Mayweather only ever had one close decision and revenged it by giving Castillo a boxing lesson Mayweather is the true Welterweight champion he even moved up to a weight division he never fought in to fight Oscar at 154 he is now facing the man who beat Kostya Tszyu aka Ricky Hatton the same Tszyu who was ducked by great fighters like Oscar and Mosley.

And compare the Welterweight division today against other eras and your find that there are more quality fighters in this Welterweight era than any others excpet 90s lets test shall we ??

Mayweather's era

Paul Williams
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Kermit Cintron
Ricky Hatton
Zab Judah
Andre Berto
Joshua Clottey

Leonards era

Hearns
Benitez
Duran

Robinson's era

Nobodys if you can find a name that stands out let me know.


There are more quality fighters in Mayweather's Welterweight era than in any other Welterweight era ever the only other era which has as many quality fighters as Mayweather's Welterweight era is the 90s surely you must agree with that ??

[brucelee]

Hahaha. This is easy.

Better? with Floyd as the current champion? No wayyyyyyyyyy.

Why not ?? he is probably one the best defensive fighters of all time probably even better than Pernell Whitaker P4P Mayweather has speed, power, he has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions not even the great Sugar Ray Robinson achieved that just because he isn't to everyones taste he is without a doubt the best Welterweight out there.

Mayweather ducked Margarito. You call it greater than Robinson? He knocked out Mitchell whom Williams had knocked down in the third round, and three times in the fourth. This is the only fight I’ve seen Mayweather not running around coz he knows Mitchell could not hurt him anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upumbp6miMY

He runs against an old and sluggish Baldomir, contented with picking up points instead of fighting it out (watch the 5th round). Baldomir is not even considered a power puncher by many boxing experts.. Mayweather has no courage, you dare compare him with Robinson? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hECeVAIXYBs

He struggled against Zab Judah during their second fight ( here’s the video). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=din0rds-EfI

Floyd compared to Armstrong, Robinson, Basilio, Leonard and Duran is like blasphemy to boxing. I'm lost with words. This topic is not even debatable.

It is ?? well Mayweather is arguably a better fighter than all of these fighters P4P Duran was great Lightweight but when he moved up he lost to mediocre fighters like Robbie Simms and was completey outboxed by British Kirkland Laing, no doubt his victory over Leonard was great win but thats only because Duran called Leonard a pussy and Leonard got lured into a brawl in the 1st fight but when Leonard boxed his normal style he completey outboxed Duran and forced Duran to quit in the rematch and Leonard won the trilogy easily as well.

Duran never quite made it when he moved up he also struggled with fast fighters and was made to look only goodish when he fought clever fast fighters and it showed when he was completey outboxed by Kirkland Laing.


The second time Duran and Leonard met was very controversial. May I quote wikipedia “Vacating the title was a build up for an attempt at the welterweight title. He fought for the welterweight title in June 1980 and beat Sugar Ray Leonard via a 15-round unanimous decision. In the November re-match, however, Durán shockingly quit. In round 8, Durán turned around, walked to his corner and gave up, supposedly saying the now famous words, "no más" (no more). However he really said, "No quiero pelear con el payaso." (Meaning "I do not want to fight with this clown.") Referee Octavio Meyran, perhaps as incredulous as was the rest of the world at what he was seeing, asked Durán if he was sure, and Durán then said, "No más, no más" (no more, no more). In violation of what any professional fighter does on the day of a fight, Durán gorged himself after the weigh-in, claimed he quit because he was having stomach cramps.[2] The controversy regarding this bout continues to this day.”
May I ask you how old Duran was when he fought Leonard the third time in super middleweight division? To remind you, he was, I believe, 37 years old. How old was he when he was beaten by all the fighters you named? 40 plus? Clearly, he was already a washed up fighter during that time. Compare his age to Barrera and you’ll find out that Barrera is much younger at 33 and Barrera is even considered by some as a washed up fighter. How much more Duran at 47?

Ray Robinson didn't even win as many world titles in as many divisions as Mayweather and Robinson's opposition is questionable at Welterweight name me one fighter he beat at Welterweight that stands out ??

Hahaha. Now Robinson’s legacy is questionable? Does his fights at the welterweights with Kid Gavilan, Tommy Bell, Levine, Henry Brimm, Charley Fusari, and Costner and all the other top contenders in the welterweight not enough for you.? Robinson may be short of one title but his fights are mostly explosive. He brawls and take risks. Dare compare him with Mayweather?


Carmen Basilio 56 wins 27 KO 16 losses not a great record by any means he went 1-1 with Robinson which is good but Robinson was also 37 and it was obvisious he wasn't in his prime anymore except for going 1-1 with an aging Robinson who else did he beat that was really any good ?? sounds like he was one hit wonder.

One hit wonder? Have you seen his fight with Tony DeMarco? He knocked Tony Demarco in the 12th round first time they met. Considered by ESPN as the favorite fight of classic sports. His second fight had the same result. He fought Ike Williams and won convincingly.

An aging Robinson, yes, but a Robinson who was able to recover the crown from Basilio second time the met. You call the first fight not an impressive win for Basilio? You must be joking.

Leonard ?? please the guy who ducked Aaron Pryor and moved up in weight to avoid Pryor ?? the guy who got gift decision against Hagler when Hagler was shot ?? or the guy who only fought Hearns in a rematch when he see Hearns get KO by Iran Barkley when he thought Hearns was shot and Leonard got a gift decision against Hearns Leonard was dropped twice by a shot Hearns and was outboxed in majority of the rounds basically Hearns was totally robbed.

Leonard won his first fight with Hearns in the Welterweight division (second fight was in middleweight when Leonard was already old)During the first fight, Leonard roared out in the 13th round and seriously hurt Hearns with a barrage of punches and knocked him down. Hearns barely survived the round. In the 14th, a combination of blows prompted the referee to stop the fight.

Remember, Leonard retired because of his eye injury. When he came back after retirement, he was no longer the prime sugar ray. His fight with Hagler was in Hagler’s favor. It was 3-1 favor of Hagler. The decision could be controversial but he still won the fight using his speed. Hagler vs Leonard was considered as a fight between two aging and inactive fighters (Leonard only fought once in 5 years and Haggler fought once in 2 ½ years). Anyway, Leonard’s s fight with Hearns was in Middleweight and it has nothing to do with our debate. One thing is sure, Leonard fought bravely even with an eye injury and even past his prime.

There are more quality fighters in Mayweather's Welterweight era than in any other Welterweight era ever the only other era which has as many quality fighters as Mayweather's Welterweight era is the 90s surely you must agree with that ??


Mayweather's era is not in the 1990's. He started to fight in welterweight in 2004. He is therefore fighting welters who may not be in their prime. Mayweather became a champion in the welterweight only in November 2006.

One thing is for sure, unless mayweather knocks out hatton, the current welterweight era will never be better than before. I don't know if this will happen. Hope mayweather gets some courage from Pacquaio and fight all the way... that way he could earn my full respect.

edit;

By the way, how many of these fighters you have mentioned had fought mayweather?

Paul Williams
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Kermit Cintron
Ricky Hatton
Zab Judah
Andre Berto
Joshua Clottey

Ohh. It's only Zab Judah!!!!!!!!!!

[Kev]

Ok good action guys, as a judge do I comment now or do I wait until this fight is over?

What round is it?

And whose the referee?

Oh and whose in what corner?

Oh and where did I put my murray mints?

What the hell is going on here?

[ICB]

Hahaha. This is easy.

Better? with Floyd as the current champion? No wayyyyyyyyyy.

Why not ?? he is probably one the best defensive fighters of all time probably even better than Pernell Whitaker P4P Mayweather has speed, power, he has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions not even the great Sugar Ray Robinson achieved that just because he isn't to everyones taste he is without a doubt the best Welterweight out there.

Mayweather ducked Margarito. You call it greater than Robinson? He knocked out Mitchell whom Williams had knocked down in the third round, and three times in the fourth. This is the only fight I’ve seen Mayweather not running around coz he knows Mitchell could not hurt him anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upumbp6miMY

He runs against an old and sluggish Baldomir, contented with picking up points instead of fighting it out (watch the 5th round). Baldomir is not even considered a power puncher by many boxing experts.. Mayweather has no courage, you dare compare him with Robinson? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hECeVAIXYBs

He struggled against Zab Judah during their second fight ( here’s the video). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=din0rds-EfI

Floyd compared to Armstrong, Robinson, Basilio, Leonard and Duran is like blasphemy to boxing. I'm lost with words. This topic is not even debatable.

It is ?? well Mayweather is arguably a better fighter than all of these fighters P4P Duran was great Lightweight but when he moved up he lost to mediocre fighters like Robbie Simms and was completey outboxed by British Kirkland Laing, no doubt his victory over Leonard was great win but thats only because Duran called Leonard a pussy and Leonard got lured into a brawl in the 1st fight but when Leonard boxed his normal style he completey outboxed Duran and forced Duran to quit in the rematch and Leonard won the trilogy easily as well.

Duran never quite made it when he moved up he also struggled with fast fighters and was made to look only goodish when he fought clever fast fighters and it showed when he was completey outboxed by Kirkland Laing.


The second time Duran and Leonard met was very controversial. May I quote wikipedia “Vacating the title was a build up for an attempt at the welterweight title. He fought for the welterweight title in June 1980 and beat Sugar Ray Leonard via a 15-round unanimous decision. In the November re-match, however, Durán shockingly quit. In round 8, Durán turned around, walked to his corner and gave up, supposedly saying the now famous words, "no más" (no more). However he really said, "No quiero pelear con el payaso." (Meaning "I do not want to fight with this clown.") Referee Octavio Meyran, perhaps as incredulous as was the rest of the world at what he was seeing, asked Durán if he was sure, and Durán then said, "No más, no más" (no more, no more). In violation of what any professional fighter does on the day of a fight, Durán gorged himself after the weigh-in, claimed he quit because he was having stomach cramps.[2] The controversy regarding this bout continues to this day.”
May I ask you how old Duran was when he fought Leonard the third time in super middleweight division? To remind you, he was, I believe, 37 years old. How old was he when he was beaten by all the fighters you named? 40 plus? Clearly, he was already a washed up fighter during that time. Compare his age to Barrera and you’ll find out that Barrera is much younger at 33 and Barrera is even considered by some as a washed up fighter. How much more Duran at 47?

Ray Robinson didn't even win as many world titles in as many divisions as Mayweather and Robinson's opposition is questionable at Welterweight name me one fighter he beat at Welterweight that stands out ??

Hahaha. Now Robinson’s legacy is questionable? Does his fights at the welterweights with Kid Gavilan, Tommy Bell, Levine, Henry Brimm, Charley Fusari, and Costner and all the other top contenders in the welterweight not enough for you.? Robinson may be short of one title but his fights are mostly explosive. He brawls and take risks. Dare compare him with Mayweather?


Carmen Basilio 56 wins 27 KO 16 losses not a great record by any means he went 1-1 with Robinson which is good but Robinson was also 37 and it was obvisious he wasn't in his prime anymore except for going 1-1 with an aging Robinson who else did he beat that was really any good ?? sounds like he was one hit wonder.

One hit wonder? Have you seen his fight with Tony DeMarco? He knocked Tony Demarco in the 12th round first time they met. Considered by ESPN as the favorite fight of classic sports. His second fight had the same result. He fought Ike Williams and won convincingly.

An aging Robinson, yes, but a Robinson who was able to recover the crown from Basilio second time the met. You call the first fight not an impressive win for Basilio? You must be joking.

Leonard ?? please the guy who ducked Aaron Pryor and moved up in weight to avoid Pryor ?? the guy who got gift decision against Hagler when Hagler was shot ?? or the guy who only fought Hearns in a rematch when he see Hearns get KO by Iran Barkley when he thought Hearns was shot and Leonard got a gift decision against Hearns Leonard was dropped twice by a shot Hearns and was outboxed in majority of the rounds basically Hearns was totally robbed.

Leonard won his first fight with Hearns in the Welterweight division (second fight was in middleweight when Leonard was already old)During the first fight, Leonard roared out in the 13th round and seriously hurt Hearns with a barrage of punches and knocked him down. Hearns barely survived the round. In the 14th, a combination of blows prompted the referee to stop the fight.

Remember, Leonard retired because of his eye injury. When he came back after retirement, he was no longer the prime sugar ray. His fight with Hagler was in Hagler’s favor. It was 3-1 favor of Hagler. The decision could be controversial but he still won the fight using his speed. Hagler vs Leonard was considered as a fight between two aging and inactive fighters (Leonard only fought once in 5 years and Haggler fought once in 2 ½ years). Anyway, Leonard’s s fight with Hearns was in Middleweight and it has nothing to do with our debate. One thing is sure, Leonard fought bravely even with an eye injury and even past his prime.

There are more quality fighters in Mayweather's Welterweight era than in any other Welterweight era ever the only other era which has as many quality fighters as Mayweather's Welterweight era is the 90s surely you must agree with that ??


Mayweather's era is not in the 1990's. He started to fight in welterweight in 2004. He is therefore fighting welters who may not be in their prime. Mayweather became a champion in the welterweight only in November 2006.

One thing is for sure, unless mayweather knocks out hatton, the current welterweight era will never be better than before. I don't know if this will happen. Hope mayweather gets some courage from Pacquaio and fight all the way... that way he could earn my full respect.

edit;

By the way, how many of these fighters you have mentioned had fought mayweather?

Paul Williams
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Kermit Cintron
Ricky Hatton
Zab Judah
Andre Berto
Joshua Clottey

Ohh. It's only Zab Judah!!!!!!!!!!

Mayweather ducked Margarito. You call it greater than Robinson? He knocked out Mitchell whom Williams had knocked down in the third round, and three times in the fourth. This is the only fight I’ve seen Mayweather not running around coz he knows Mitchell could not hurt him anymore.

And Robinson ducked Charles Burley the man who sparked him out twice in sparring and as for Margarito ?? he wasn't worth it at the time Margarito hadn't fought any names and if Mayweather would of fought Margarito then people would be saying he was ducking Baldomir Mayweather fought the Welterweight champion of the world for the same money aka Carlos Baldomir.

He runs against an old and sluggish Baldomir, contented with picking up points instead of fighting it out (watch the 5th round). Baldomir is not even considered a power puncher by many boxing experts.. Mayweather has no courage, you dare compare him with Robinson?

Baldomir was bigger man than Mayweather plus he was just coming off beating Judah and Gatti and Mayweather fought cautious fight but he still won 12 rounds to 0 so it doesn't matter Mayweather has stood toe to toe in quite alot of fights and to say Mayweather has no courage is just silly just because he is a defensive type fighter well if your saying Mayweather has no courage i guess fighters like Willie Pep and Pernell Whitaker had no courage either because they were defensive masters just like Mayweather just because you dislike a fighters boxing style doesn't mean he has no courage thats silly.

PBF - Brawls Clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK57iXBqzJY



The second time Duran and Leonard met was very controversial. May I quote wikipedia “Vacating the title was a build up for an attempt at the welterweight title. He fought for the welterweight title in June 1980 and beat Sugar Ray Leonard via a 15-round unanimous decision. In the November re-match, however, Durán shockingly quit. In round 8, Durán turned around, walked to his corner and gave up, supposedly saying the now famous words, "no más" (no more). However he really said, "No quiero pelear con el payaso." (Meaning "I do not want to fight with this clown.") Referee Octavio Meyran, perhaps as incredulous as was the rest of the world at what he was seeing, asked Durán if he was sure, and Durán then said, "No más, no más" (no more, no more). In violation of what any professional fighter does on the day of a fight, Durán gorged himself after the weigh-in, claimed he quit because he was having stomach cramps.[2] The controversy regarding this bout continues to this day.”
May I ask you how old Duran was when he fought Leonard the third time in super middleweight division? To remind you, he was, I believe, 37 years old. How old was he when he was beaten by all the fighters you named? 40 plus? Clearly, he was already a washed up fighter during that time. Compare his age to Barrera and you’ll find out that Barrera is much younger at 33 and Barrera is even considered by some as a washed up fighter. How much more Duran at 47?

Thats what Duran claimed doesn't mean its true all i know is that Duran was getting outboxed and was made to look foolish thats why he quit and you say Duran was 37 when he fought Leonard but Leonard was no spring chicken either at 33 plus earlier that year Duran had beat Iran Barkley who was fresh off KO Thomas Hearns and arguably that was one of Duran's best ever performance against Barkley he took all of Barkley's shots and even knocked Barkley down in the 11th so Duran was still very good fighter when he fought Leonard the 3rd time make no mistake about it and as for Duran losing to mediocre fighters i mentioned actually he lost to Kirkland Laing in 1982 which would make him 30 years old or i believe or 31 so thats hardly past your prime considering what Duran went on to do after the Kirkland Laing fight beating great fighter like Pipino Cuevas and going the distant with Marvin Hagler and almost winning the fight infact i believe he was ahead after 12 rounds he just run out of steam in later rounds and also beating Iran Barkley so you can't use excuse that Duran was past his prime in Kirkland Laing fight Duran just always struggled with fast clever fighters and like i said he was made to look only goodish fighter.


Hahaha. Now Robinson’s legacy is questionable? Does his fights at the welterweights with Kid Gavilan, Tommy Bell, Levine, Henry Brimm, Charley Fusari, and Costner and all the other top contenders in the welterweight not enough for you.? Robinson may be short of one title but his fights are mostly explosive. He brawls and take risks. Dare compare him with Mayweather?

The only good name you mentioned there was Kid Gavilan.

Tommy Bell record was 53 wins, 32 KO, 29 losses, not a good record is it ?? and how many good fighters did Bell beat ??

Henry Brimm are you kidding me ?? 26 wins, 11 KO, 17 losses, and you slate Mayweathers opposition ??

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.


George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

If Mayweather would of fought these guys in his era you would of slated him just as you do now ask any boxing fan if they have even heard of any of these names except for Gavilan.


One hit wonder? Have you seen his fight with Tony DeMarco? He knocked Tony Demarco in the 12th round first time they met. Considered by ESPN as the favorite fight of classic sports. His second fight had the same result. He fought Ike Williams and won convincingly.

An aging Robinson, yes, but a Robinson who was able to recover the crown from Basilio second time the met. You call the first fight not an impressive win for Basilio? You must be joking.

Just because you have a great fight that doesn't make you great fighter just like Gatti vs Ward and Castillo vs Corrales.

Robinson was on the decline because after the fight with Basilio he lost twice to Paul Bender and after that he never had anymore victorys that stood out.

Mayweather's era is not in the 1990's. He started to fight in welterweight in 2004. He is therefore fighting welters who may not be in their prime. Mayweather became a champion in the welterweight only in November 2006.

One thing is for sure, unless mayweather knocks out hatton, the current welterweight era will never be better than before. I don't know if this will happen. Hope mayweather gets some courage from Pacquaio and fight all the way... that way he could earn my full respect.

Your focusing this too much on Mayweather the subject was is Welterweight division today better than ever the subject was not about Mayweather and the Welterweight division has more quality fighters than any other era like i said only other era that has as many quality fighters is the 90s Welterweight era.


By the way, how many of these fighters you have mentioned had fought mayweather?

Paul Williams
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
Kermit Cintron
Ricky Hatton
Zab Judah
Andre Berto
Joshua Clottey

Ohh. It's only Zab Judah!!!!!!!!!!


But thats not what i was trying to say i was saying Mayweather's era has as many quality fighters than in any other Welterweight era except the 90s the subject is not about who Mayweather fought or who Robinson fought even though i have answered all your questions.

[brucelee]

But thats not what i was trying to say i was saying Mayweather's era has as many quality fighters than in any other Welterweight era except the 90s the subject is not about who Mayweather fought or who Robinson fought even though i have answered all your questions

If I can recall correctly, it was you who asked the names of who Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard fought that's worth mentioning. I've answered your question coz I thought that was what you were trying to argue with me. Now you're trying to change the content of our debate coz I did give you names.

Your focusing this too much on Mayweather the subject was is Welterweight division today better than ever the subject was not about Mayweather and the Welterweight division has more quality fighters than any other era like i said only other era that has as many quality fighters is the 90s Welterweight era.

I am focusing on Mayweather as the subject coz that was the content of my argument. I said. "With Floyd as the current champion, NO WAY". You accepted my preposition by saying " Why not ?? he is probably one the best defensive fighters of all time probably even better than Pernell Whitaker P4P Mayweather has speed, power, he has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions not even the great Sugar Ray Robinson achieved that just because he isn't to everyones taste he is without a doubt the best Welterweight out there."

So you're trying to say now that the content of our debate is about the quality and number of fighters in the welterweight today?

So you're saying that these fighters (Paul Williams,Miguel Cotto,Shane Mosley,Antonio Margarito,Kermit Cintron,Ricky Hatton,Zab Judah,Andre Berto,Joshua Clottey) are quality fighters. I do not disagree about it ( in their own way, they are good). Now let me ask you, how many of these fighters you have mentioned will be remembered by history like the way boxing history remembers Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard?

So you accept the fact that the 90's era is equal in number in terms of quality fighters? Since the topic is about welterweight better now than before, you should know that I am entitled to claim the 90's era.

Let me then qualify your era. Your era is about NOW..... with Mayweather as the champion. Do not confuse our eminent judges.


The only good name you mentioned there was Kid Gavilan.

Tommy Bell record was 53 wins, 32 KO, 29 losses, not a good record is it ?? and how many good fighters did Bell beat ??

Henry Brimm are you kidding me ?? 26 wins, 11 KO, 17 losses, and you slate Mayweathers opposition ??

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.


George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

If Mayweather would of fought these guys in his era you would of slated him just as you do now ask any boxing fan if they have even heard of any of these names except for Gavilan.

I specifically identified these fighters coz they are the ones who stood out in history and who have been relevant to Robinson's fame in the welterweight. By the way, there are no fighters that really stood out during Robinson's time because of Robinson's greatness. Fighters were simply overshadowed. Remember the pound for pound title was created because of Robinson.

Can you say something like that to Mayweather?

And Robinson ducked Charles Burley the man who sparked him out twice in sparring and as for Margarito ?? he wasn't worth it at the time Margarito hadn't fought any names and if Mayweather would of fought Margarito then people would be saying he was ducking Baldomir Mayweather fought the Welterweight champion of the world for the same money aka Carlos Baldomir.

Ducked Charles Burley? It was the mafia who decided who will fight whom. Charles happened to be in the wrong time when discrimination was so high in boxing that the Mafia can not tolerate anymore any black fighter excelling in boxing aside from Robinson. Robinson can not do anything about Charles.

a.k.a the sluggish Baldomir?

So you’re really questioning now the legacy of Robinson. Let me clear this up. So you mean Robinson does not deserve to be one of the all-time greats?

Just to give you an idea that I know what I’m saying, let me answer your query regarding these people:

Tommy Bell record was 53 wins, 32 KO, 29 losses, not a good record is it ?? and how many good fighters did Bell beat ??

Tommy Bell fought LaMotta and Robinson in 1945 and in 1946 (for the world championship), LaMotta in 1947, Kid Gavilan in 1948. He almost averaged 9 fights a year. Is it not impressive for you? These fighters would not be fighting Bell if they do not consider Bell as a good fighter.

Henry Brimm are you kidding me ?? 26 wins, 11 KO, 17 losses, and you slate Mayweathers opposition ??

Brimm managed a draw against Robinson, that’s why I mentioned him.

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.

Charles KOed Rocky Castellani in 10.

George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

Lost all his big fights? Won over Ike Williams.

Now, Costner,Brimm, etc. is not the point here. I’ve mentioned Costner, Henry Brimm, Kid Gavilan and Tommy Bell to prove the greatness of Sugar Ray Robinson since you were questioning it.

You’re trying now to lure me in defending these guys. Nahhh, I won’t give you that benefit.

[ICB]

But thats not what i was trying to say i was saying Mayweather's era has as many quality fighters than in any other Welterweight era except the 90s the subject is not about who Mayweather fought or who Robinson fought even though i have answered all your questions

If I can recall correctly, it was you who asked the names of who Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard fought that's worth mentioning. I've answered your question coz I thought that was what you were trying to argue with me. Now you're trying to change the content of our debate coz I did give you names.[/b]

Your focusing this too much on Mayweather the subject was is Welterweight division today better than ever the subject was not about Mayweather and the Welterweight division has more quality fighters than any other era like i said only other era that has as many quality fighters is the 90s Welterweight era.

I am focusing on Mayweather as the subject coz that was the content of my argument. I said. "With Floyd as the current champion, NO WAY". You accepted my preposition by saying " Why not ?? he is probably one the best defensive fighters of all time probably even better than Pernell Whitaker P4P Mayweather has speed, power, he has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions not even the great Sugar Ray Robinson achieved that just because he isn't to everyones taste he is without a doubt the best Welterweight out there."

So you're trying to say now that the content of our debate is about the quality and number of fighters in the welterweight today?

So you're saying that these fighters (Paul Williams,Miguel Cotto,Shane Mosley,Antonio Margarito,Kermit Cintron,Ricky Hatton,Zab Judah,Andre Berto,Joshua Clottey) are quality fighters. I do not disagree about it ( in their own way, they are good). Now let me ask you, how many of these fighters you have mentioned will be remembered by history like the way boxing history remembers Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard?

So you accept the fact that the 90's era is equal in number in terms of quality fighters? Since the topic is about welterweight better now than before, you should know that I am entitled to claim the 90's era.

Let me then qualify your era. Your era is about NOW..... with Mayweather as the champion. Do not confuse our eminent judges.


The only good name you mentioned there was Kid Gavilan.

Tommy Bell record was 53 wins, 32 KO, 29 losses, not a good record is it ?? and how many good fighters did Bell beat ??

Henry Brimm are you kidding me ?? 26 wins, 11 KO, 17 losses, and you slate Mayweathers opposition ??

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.


George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

If Mayweather would of fought these guys in his era you would of slated him just as you do now ask any boxing fan if they have even heard of any of these names except for Gavilan.[/b]

I specifically identified these fighters coz they are the ones who stood out in history and who have been relevant to Robinson's fame in the welterweight. By the way, there are no fighters that really stood out during Robinson's time because of Robinson's greatness. Fighters were simply overshadowed. Remember the pound for pound title was created because of Robinson.

Can you say something like that to Mayweather?

And Robinson ducked Charles Burley the man who sparked him out twice in sparring and as for Margarito ?? he wasn't worth it at the time Margarito hadn't fought any names and if Mayweather would of fought Margarito then people would be saying he was ducking Baldomir Mayweather fought the Welterweight champion of the world for the same money aka Carlos Baldomir.

Ducked Charles Burley? It was the mafia who decided who will fight whom. Charles happened to be in the wrong time when discrimination was so high in boxing that the Mafia can not tolerate anymore any black fighter excelling in boxing aside from Robinson. Robinson can not do anything about Charles.

a.k.a the sluggish Baldomir?

So you’re really questioning now the legacy of Robinson. Let me clear this up. So you mean Robinson does not deserve to be one of the all-time greats?

Just to give you an idea that I know what I’m saying, let me answer your query regarding these people:

Tommy Bell record was 53 wins, 32 KO, 29 losses, not a good record is it ?? and how many good fighters did Bell beat ??

Tommy Bell fought LaMotta and Robinson in 1945 and in 1946 (for the world championship), LaMotta in 1947, Kid Gavilan in 1948. He almost averaged 9 fights a year. Is it not impressive for you? These fighters would not be fighting Bell if they do not consider Bell as a good fighter.

Henry Brimm are you kidding me ?? 26 wins, 11 KO, 17 losses, and you slate Mayweathers opposition ??[/b]

Brimm managed a draw against Robinson, that’s why I mentioned him.

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.

Charles KOed Rocky Castellani in 10.

George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

Lost all his big fights? Won over Ike Williams.

Now, Costner,Brimm, etc. is not the point here. I’ve mentioned Costner, Henry Brimm, Kid Gavilan and Tommy Bell to prove the greatness of Sugar Ray Robinson since you were questioning it.

You’re trying now to lure me in defending these guys. Nahhh, I won’t give you that benefit.

If I can recall correctly, it was you who asked the names of who Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard fought that's worth mentioning. I've answered your question coz I thought that was what you were trying to argue with me. Now you're trying to change the content of our debate coz I did give you names.

You brung up Mayweather and made me defend Mayweather so i had to counter back and say what Welterweight era had as many good names as Mayweather's welterweight era even though Mayweather has nothing really to do with the debate and you gave me names but they wern't really good names and all you did is make me correct because you couldn't name as many good names in any other Welterweight era except the 90s and thats only because i brought up 90s to be fair you didn't and this is what the subject is about.

Topic: "The Welterweight division, better now than ever?"

Meaning i have to defend Welterweight era now your turning this into a debate strictly about Mayweather.


I am focusing on Mayweather as the subject coz that was the content of my argument. I said. "With Floyd as the current champion, NO WAY". You accepted my preposition by saying " Why not ?? he is probably one the best defensive fighters of all time probably even better than Pernell Whitaker P4P Mayweather has speed, power, he has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions not even the great Sugar Ray Robinson achieved that just because he isn't to everyones taste he is without a doubt the best Welterweight out there."

Yes and everything i said there was completey correct so whats your point ?? all your doing is turning this into a debate about Mayweather when im supposed to be defending the Welterweight era now not just Mayweather and i have defended it because i named all quality fighters in this era and you still haven't named as many in any other Welterweight era so that means my argument is correct yes ?? because this is what the topic is.

Topic: "The Welterweight division, better now than ever?"

And so far i have proven that Mayweather's Welterweight era is arguably the strongest ever and there hasn't been as many good fighters in any other Welterweight era except the 90syou have not been able to prove me wrong so far i am correct.

So you're trying to say now that the content of our debate is about the quality and number of fighters in the welterweight today?

Yes thats what it has always been about you turned it into strictly Mayweather debate.

So you're saying that these fighters (Paul Williams,Miguel Cotto,Shane Mosley,Antonio Margarito,Kermit Cintron,Ricky Hatton,Zab Judah,Andre Berto,Joshua Clottey) are quality fighters. I do not disagree about it ( in their own way, they are good). Now let me ask you, how many of these fighters you have mentioned will be remembered by history like the way boxing history remembers Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard?

Who knows ?? they haven't finished there career yet so its unfair but all i know is that they are all good fighters and this Welterweight era has more good fighters in it than Robinson's Welterweight era and Leonard's Welterweight era no question.

So you accept the fact that the 90's era is equal in number in terms of quality fighters? Since the topic is about welterweight better now than before, you should know that I am entitled to claim the 90's era.

Its apple and oranges Bruce meaning that both eras had alot of good fighters and its debatable both ways but its bit unfair for one reason Bruce because when we are bringing up 90s era thats 10 years worth of fighters when im only bringing up the era right now im not bringing up 2000 to 2007 im only bringing up 2007 i tell you what you pick one year from 90s era meaning you pick 1991 or 1992 or ect and we will compare it with the Welterweight era today fair enough ??

Let me then qualify your era. Your era is about NOW..... with Mayweather as the champion. Do not confuse our eminent judges.

Yes but i have defended Mayweather and the debate is not strictly about Mayweather we are debating the different Welterweight eras not just one fighter.

I specifically identified these fighters coz they are the ones who stood out in history and who have been relevant to Robinson's fame in the welterweight. By the way, there are no fighters that really stood out during Robinson's time because of Robinson's greatness. Fighters were simply overshadowed. Remember the pound for pound title was created because of Robinson.

So there you go you admitted yourself that no fighters really stood out in Robinson's Welterweight era you just proved my point Bruce and its nothing to do with Robinson's greatness its because it wasn't a strong era at all them fighters you mentioned the only one that stood out is Kid Gavilan the others were not that good i mean the era was that weak that you had to mention Henry Brimm who had 26 wins and 17 losses as one of Robinson's better wins.

Can you say something like that to Mayweather?

Mayweather's career is not finished yet so thats unfair but he is p4p number 1 and by the time his career is finished just imagine where he could be rated ?? i would love to know but we will find out in about 3 years so we will have to wait.

Ducked Charles Burley? It was the mafia who decided who will fight whom. Charles happened to be in the wrong time when discrimination was so high in boxing that the Mafia can not tolerate anymore any black fighter excelling in boxing aside from Robinson. Robinson can not do anything about Charles.

Its actually noted he ducked Burley because Bruely sparked Robinson twice in sparring when Burley was gym sweeper or something i think he knew something about Burley that Burley had his number but not only Robinson ducked Burley alot of fighters did.

So you’re really questioning now the legacy of Robinson. Let me clear this up. So you mean Robinson does not deserve to be one of the all-time greats?

Just to give you an idea that I know what I’m saying, let me answer your query regarding these people:


Oh yes Robinson is one of the all time greats but his Welterweight era is more than questionable and im not questioning Robinson's whole career im questioning his Welterweight era which im supposed to do because im defending the current Welterweight era.

Tommy Bell record was 53 wins, 32 KO, 29 losses, not a good record is it ?? and how many good fighters did Bell beat ??

Tommy Bell fought LaMotta and Robinson in 1945 and in 1946 (for the world championship), LaMotta in 1947, Kid Gavilan in 1948. He almost averaged 9 fights a year. Is it not impressive for you? These fighters would not be fighting Bell if they do not consider Bell as a good fighter.

Just because he averaged 9 fights a year im supposed to be impressed ?? that was common in them days Bruce that was nothing impressive in them days and you mention he fought Lamotta, Robinson, Gavilan but did he win any of these fights ?? i think your find he didn't so just because you fought the best and lost that doesn't make you great fighter.

Henry Brimm are you kidding me ?? 26 wins, 11 KO, 17 losses, and you slate Mayweathers opposition ??

Brimm managed a draw against Robinson, that’s why I mentioned him.

And ?? all that does is make Robinson look bad for drawing with 26-17 fighter.

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.

Charles KOed Rocky Castellani in 10.

And who was Rocky Castellani ?? 65 wins 16 KO 14 losses he lost all the big fights he never had one victory that really stands out so out of all that you can only mention one win against Castellani who is really an unknown your just proving my point Bruce.

George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

Lost all his big fights? Won over Ike Williams.

Now, Costner,Brimm, etc. is not the point here. I’ve mentioned Costner, Henry Brimm, Kid Gavilan and Tommy Bell to prove the greatness of Sugar Ray Robinson since you were questioning it.

You’re trying now to lure me in defending these guys. Nahhh, I won’t give you that benefit.


Ok so he had one good victory over Ike Williams but Kirkland Laing beat Duran once does that make him great fighter ?? Terry Marsh beat Robinson, Glen Johnson beat Roy Jones so many great fighters lose to fighters they shouldn't Bruce that doesn't make fighters like Laing, Johnson, Marsh, Costner great all you can mention is one victory he and there you haven't proven anything and you mentioned them names to prove greatness of Robinson ?? all you did is make it easy for me Bruce.

And yes i am asking you to defend them considering you brought them up otherwise what was the point of bringing them up ??

[brucelee]

So you're saying that these fighters (Paul Williams,Miguel Cotto,Shane Mosley,Antonio Margarito,Kermit Cintron,Ricky Hatton,Zab Judah,Andre Berto,Joshua Clottey) are quality fighters. I do not disagree about it ( in their own way, they are good). Now let me ask you, how many of these fighters you have mentioned will be remembered by history like the way boxing history remembers Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard?

Who knows ?? they haven't finished there career yet so its unfair but all i know is that they are all good fighters and this Welterweight era has more good fighters in it than Robinson's Welterweight era and Leonard's Welterweight era no question.

You've lost the debate ICB. These fighters you have mentioned will never be remembered better than Robinson and Duran. You may ask any boxing analyst. You may even ask yourself.

Ducked Charles Burley? It was the mafia who decided who will fight whom. Charles happened to be in the wrong time when discrimination was so high in boxing that the Mafia can not tolerate anymore any black fighter excelling in boxing aside from Robinson. Robinson can not do anything about Charles.

Its actually noted he ducked Burley because Bruely sparked Robinson twice in sparring when Burley was gym sweeper or something i think he knew something about Burley that Burley had his number but not only Robinson ducked Burley alot of fighters did.

Actually noted that he ducked Burley? That's more of a rumor/hearsay than a fact.

Ok so he had one good victory over Ike Williams but Kirkland Laing beat Duran once does that make him great fighter ?? Terry Marsh beat Robinson, Glen Johnson beat Roy Jones so many great fighters lose to fighters they shouldn't Bruce that doesn't make fighters like Laing, Johnson, Marsh, Costner great all you can mention is one victory he and there you haven't proven anything and you mentioned them names to prove greatness of Robinson ?? all you did is make it easy for me Bruce.

And I also said all the other top contenders in the division. Have you forgotten that? You have asked me to identify at least one great fighter these fighters I mentioned have fought. I gave you names. Now all you say is "they all have padded records". Have you really seen their fights for you to conclude that they really have padded records?

I believe it's Mayweather who has padded records. Quoted from wikipedia "From 1996 to early 1998, Mayweather fought against relatively easy opponents and won most of the fights by knockout or TKO".

By the way, you haven't answered me who among the fighters you mentioned have fought Mayweather to make the welterweight era better than before. You were questioning Robinson's quality of opponents so let me throw back the question to you. Who has Mayweather beaten in the welterweight? Did you watch the video I posted regarding the Mayweather vs Judah fight?

Mayweather has 38 fights (some padded) with 24 KOs. Mayweather only fought 3 (?) fighters in the welterweight. 2 of them questionable and selected for an easy win.

Robinson had a total of 202 fights (most of the fights involve all-out battle)
Wins 175
Wins by KO 108
Losses 19
Draws 6
No contests 2
And still Mayweather is greater than Robinson?

By the way, mayweather did duck margarito. He rejected an $8Million dollar offer to fight margarito in 2006 and decided to go up to fight De LA hoya but ODLH postponed the fight to 2007 so he decided to fight Cory Spinks but it did not push through coz of Spinks mandatory defense. So he decided to fight Baldomir coz he was already in the bad light.

[ICB]

So you're saying that these fighters (Paul Williams,Miguel Cotto,Shane Mosley,Antonio Margarito,Kermit Cintron,Ricky Hatton,Zab Judah,Andre Berto,Joshua Clottey) are quality fighters. I do not disagree about it ( in their own way, they are good). Now let me ask you, how many of these fighters you have mentioned will be remembered by history like the way boxing history remembers Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard?

Who knows ?? they haven't finished there career yet so its unfair but all i know is that they are all good fighters and this Welterweight era has more good fighters in it than Robinson's Welterweight era and Leonard's Welterweight era no question.

You've lost the debate ICB. These fighters you have mentioned will never be remembered better than Robinson and Duran. You may ask any boxing analyst. You may even ask yourself.

Ducked Charles Burley? It was the mafia who decided who will fight whom. Charles happened to be in the wrong time when discrimination was so high in boxing that the Mafia can not tolerate anymore any black fighter excelling in boxing aside from Robinson. Robinson can not do anything about Charles.

Its actually noted he ducked Burley because Bruely sparked Robinson twice in sparring when Burley was gym sweeper or something i think he knew something about Burley that Burley had his number but not only Robinson ducked Burley alot of fighters did.

Actually noted that he ducked Burley? That's more of a rumor/hearsay than a fact.

Ok so he had one good victory over Ike Williams but Kirkland Laing beat Duran once does that make him great fighter ?? Terry Marsh beat Robinson, Glen Johnson beat Roy Jones so many great fighters lose to fighters they shouldn't Bruce that doesn't make fighters like Laing, Johnson, Marsh, Costner great all you can mention is one victory he and there you haven't proven anything and you mentioned them names to prove greatness of Robinson ?? all you did is make it easy for me Bruce.

And I also said all the other top contenders in the division. Have you forgotten that? You have asked me to identify at least one great fighter these fighters I mentioned have fought. I gave you names. Now all you say is "they all have padded records". Have you really seen their fights for you to conclude that they really have padded records?

I believe it's Mayweather who has padded records. Quoted from wikipedia "From 1996 to early 1998, Mayweather fought against relatively easy opponents and won most of the fights by knockout or TKO".

By the way, you haven't answered me who among the fighters you mentioned have fought Mayweather to make the welterweight era better than before. You were questioning Robinson's quality of opponents so let me throw back the question to you. Who has Mayweather beaten in the welterweight? Did you watch the video I posted regarding the Mayweather vs Judah fight?

Mayweather has 38 fights (some padded) with 24 KOs. Mayweather only fought 3 (?) fighters in the welterweight. 2 of them questionable and selected for an easy win.

Robinson had a total of 202 fights (most of the fights involve all-out battle)
Wins 175
Wins by KO 108
Losses 19
Draws 6
No contests 2
And still Mayweather is greater than Robinson?

You've lost the debate ICB. These fighters you have mentioned will never be remembered better than Robinson and Duran. You may ask any boxing analyst. You may even ask yourself.

How have i lost ?? they may or may not be remembered in the same light as Duran or Robinson but what has that got to do with anything ?? the debate is about Welterweight era's and this Welterweight era has more quality fighters than Duran's Welterweight era and Robinson's Welterweight era and i have proved it.


Actually noted that he ducked Burley? That's more of a rumor/hearsay than a fact.

Come off it Burley sparked out Robinson twice in sparring Robinson avoided Burley like the plague he wanted nothing to do with Burley at all.


And I also said all the other top contenders in the division. Have you forgotten that? You have asked me to identify at least one great fighter these fighters I mentioned have fought. I gave you names. Now all you say is "they all have padded records". Have you really seen their fights for you to conclude that they really have padded records?

They wern't great fighters though and i proved that when i answered your questions let me copy and paste it.


Brimm managed a draw against Robinson, that’s why I mentioned him.

And ?? all that does is make Robinson look bad for drawing with 26-17 fighter.

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.

Charles KOed Rocky Castellani in 10.


And who was Rocky Castellani ?? 65 wins 16 KO 14 losses he lost all the big fights he never had one victory that really stands out so out of all that you can only mention one win against Castellani who is really an unknown your just proving my point Bruce.

George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

Lost all his big fights? Won over Ike Williams.

Now, Costner,Brimm, etc. is not the point here. I’ve mentioned Costner, Henry Brimm, Kid Gavilan and Tommy Bell to prove the greatness of Sugar Ray Robinson since you were questioning it.

You’re trying now to lure me in defending these guys. Nahhh, I won’t give you that benefit.


Ok so he had one good victory over Ike Williams but Kirkland Laing beat Duran once does that make him great fighter ?? Terry Marsh beat Robinson, Glen Johnson beat Roy Jones so many great fighters lose to fighters they shouldn't Bruce that doesn't make fighters like Laing, Johnson, Marsh, Costner great all you can mention is one victory he and there you haven't proven anything and you mentioned them names to prove greatness of Robinson ?? all you did is make it easy for me Bruce.

Thats what i posted and none of them fighters were great the only name that stood out was Kid Gavilan.



I believe it's Mayweather who has padded records. Quoted from wikipedia "From 1996 to early 1998, Mayweather fought against relatively easy opponents and won most of the fights by knockout or TKO".

The reason why this statement has nothing to do with the debate is because Mayweather was not even Welterweight then and plus Mayweather begun his pro debut in 1996 what do you expect him to face when he is a prospect ?? he wasn't even a champion then so i don't understand why you bring that up he didn't even win his first world title until 1998 off an excellent fighter Genaro Hernandez every fighter when they have just started there pro career starts off with easy opposition thats obvisious.


By the way, you haven't answered me who among the fighters you mentioned have fought Mayweather to make the welterweight era better than before. You were questioning Robinson's quality of opponents so let me throw back the question to you. Who has Mayweather beaten in the welterweight? Did you watch the video I posted regarding the Mayweather vs Judah fight?


Well considering Mayweather has only been a Welterweight for not even 2 years that is unfair and has only had 3 fights at Welterweight i think thats totally unfair arguement but he did beat.

Sharmba Mitchell
Zab Judah
Carlos Manuel Baldomir

Which is pretty solid list of opposition but again your turning this debate into strictly about Mayweather this debate is about Welterweight eras and i have proven that the only other era with as many quality fighters as this Welterweight era is 90s and even that is bit unfair considering i am only talking about 2007 and 90s has 10 years worth of fighters like i told you to do pick a year out of the 90s and we will compare it with 2007.


Mayweather has 38 fights (some padded) with 24 KOs. Mayweather only fought 3 (?) fighters in the welterweight. 2 of them questionable and selected for an easy win.

Robinson had a total of 202 fights (most of the fights involve all-out battle)
Wins 175
Wins by KO 108
Losses 19
Draws 6
No contests 2
And still Mayweather is greater than Robinson?

Mayweather fought legit Welterweight champion of the world Baldomir you can't expect him to do legendary things at Welterweight with only 3 fights at Welterweight but he has still fought quality opposition at Welterweight.

Whoever said Mayweather was as great as Robinson ?? your turning this debate into about Robinson vs Mayweather this debate is about Welterweight eras you keep going off topic Mayweather has only had 38 fights and has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions thats something not even Robinson done and thats damn impressive in only 38 pro fights all i was saying is that Robinson's Welterweight era is not as strong as Welterweight era now and i have proven it isn't thats what im supposed to be debating about and so far i have proven it.

[Kev]

Ok guys what round are we into now?

Is it almost over can I give my scorecard in yet?

[ICB]

Ok guys what round are we into now?

Is it almost over can I give my scorecard in yet?

Please do mate we have both made 4 posts each we both have 8 left but you can give your scorecard.

[Kev]

Am I supposed to wait until the end though?

And do I score each pair of posts on a 10 must system?

[ICB]

Am I supposed to wait until the end though?

And do I score each pair of posts on a 10 must system?

Well in the last fight with Adam vs JT Rock the judges just said who was winning they didn't do any 10 point must system but do what you like Bilbo your judge mate it would be nice to see who is winning but score it however you want mate im having fun with this debate even though the subject i got was bit unfair imobut i still think i have made good points.

And as you know i never give up and where is Hitmandonny and Violent Demise they are the judges aswell haven't seen them yet.

[brucelee]

Mayweather fought legit Welterweight champion of the world Baldomir you can't expect him to do legendary things at Welterweight with only 3 fights at Welterweight but he has still fought quality opposition at Welterweight.


Whoever said Mayweather was as great as Robinson ?? your turning this debate into about Robinson vs Mayweather this debate is about Welterweight eras you keep going off topic Mayweather has only had 38 fights and has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions thats something not even Robinson done and thats damn impressive in only 38 pro fights all i was saying is that Robinson's Welterweight era is not as strong as Welterweight era now and i have proven it isn't thats what im supposed to be debating about and so far i have proven it.

First and foremost, you're saying now that these alphabet titles matters? yeah 5 different weight divisions? Against a SLUGGISH Baldomir after he ducked Margarito? MAybe you haven't read my last comment regarding MAyweather ducking MArgarito. Let me repeat my story ( I added these lines after I posted my earlier rebuttal).

By the way, mayweather did duck Margarito. He rejected an $8Million dollar offer to fight margarito in 2006 and decided to go up to fight De LA hoya but ODLH postponed the fight to 2007 so he decided to fight Cory Spinks but it did not push through coz of Spinks mandatory defense. So he decided to fight Baldomir coz he was already in the bad light.

yeah, there maybe great fighters in the welterweight division now but does it automatically make the division better than before? I am focusing with Mayweather coz ,for you, he symbolizes the best boxer in this era.

What purpose does it serve to have great boxers when what you consider the best boxer is ducking another boxer? You mean, that will make this era better than before?

So Mayweather fought legit fighters? The question is how did he perform? Ohhh, by outpointing a SLUGGISH Baldomir. have you seen his fight with Judah? I've posted the video. Try to watch it again and boldly say his performance was impressive.

CAn you explain to me why the win of Mayweather over Shamba impressive? Williams had done it in the 4th round. Mayweather in 6th.

Mayweather can't really be expected to do some legendary thing in the welterweight coz he lacks the courage possessed by Robinson.

Well considering Mayweather has only been a Welterweight for not even 2 years that is unfair and has only had 3 fights at Welterweight i think thats totally unfair arguement but he did beat.

So mayweather had 3 fights in the welterweight since 2004 to 2007. How great is that? Boxers during the time of Robinson and Basilio were fighting an average of 9-10 fights a year.

Topic:"The Welterweight division, better now than ever?"

When you talk about an era being great, you don't only talk about the number of "supposed great fighters". You talk about the quality of fights between these fighters.

So what makes the welterweight division exciting now? Mayweather? To be specific, what makes it better than ever now? The fighters you have mentioned who may be forgotten like the welters of the 80's?

I say, an era is better if its fighters can be remembered well. Robinson, Basilio and Duran had proven it already. The fighters you have mentioned still needs to be tested with time. Robinson is acclaimed as the number 1 all time great by most boxing fans.

In your honest opinion, how will the fighters you mentioned hurdle the test of time? Will it be as great as how history remembers Robinson and Basilio?