This is the future of the US........

[Kirkland Laing]

How does the illegal save taxpayers money

I have outlined the drain on the economy that they are....how do they benefit us besides giving us very cheap grapes?

You haven't outlined anything. You've ranted about immigrants but haven't actually posted any facts.

Undocumented-Americans coming over the border in vast numbers mean that wages are kept low which squeezes inflation out of the economy, meaning we can keep interest rates much lower on an ongoing basis than we'd be able to otherwise. They also mean no loss of production due to labour shortages. These things combined help grow the economy exponentially faster than would otherwise be possible.

[Kirkland Laing]

Well well well look what I found.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEKUJGT2xr4

If it wasn't for fear, loathing and religion, it'd be impossible for the GOP to run a successful right wing movement on behalf of the small bunch of plutocrats who fund it.

Hilariously, the GOP now need the Hispanic vote to have any chance of winning future elections, so all those decades of demonising immigrants are coming back to bite them.

[LEGION]

Here's an interesting article. Especially interesting the massive cost and loss of over 80 hospitals and jobs due to all the free medical care given. This free care needs to be put to an end, unless we decide to change how medical care is given; like U.K. or Canada.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/170334.shtml

[Punisher136]

How does the illegal save taxpayers money

I have outlined the drain on the economy that they are....how do they benefit us besides giving us very cheap grapes?

You haven't outlined anything. You've ranted about immigrants but haven't actually posted any facts.

Undocumented-Americans coming over the border in vast numbers mean that wages are kept low which squeezes inflation out of the economy, meaning we can keep interest rates much lower on an ongoing basis than we'd be able to otherwise. They also mean no loss of production due to labour shortages. These things combined help grow the economy exponentially faster than would otherwise be possible.

The economy is only growing expodentially faster for people who already have more money than they know what to do with. The middle class is quickly losing ground. They can't take a job with humane working conditions or benefits because companies can't afford to do that. It's insourcing a job instead of outsourcing, they're both just as bad for the middle class (which i'll remind you composes a VAST majority of america).

Companies are closing left and right because they refuse to break the law to make ends meet. I don't know where you live, but where i live, 2 major factories just shut down. Those jobs paid atleast $15 an hour. Those jobs are no longer available because they wouldn't cut benefits to their employees or hire cheap labor. Since you wanna use numbers, thats about 1,000 people out of a job with benefits which now adds to the strain on the government to provide for them. Thats right the government, not democrats (pc crazy hippies in denial of their own mental illiness), not republicans (fat old rich "god sent" leaders), the government.

Regardless of party lines, they all have special interest groups they lean towards to get elected. The democrats favor the gays (biggest mental illiness group on their roster) and angry minorites who they've brainwashed into thinking they are victims. The republicans favor the delusional churches and any business that will throw money at them.

All they care about is money which is funny because the way they're all going, nobody that lives here will have any to give them after the insane taxes that they'd need to collect to balance their policies and the money they do collect won't be worth anything as they continually destroy the dollars value day in and day out. Atleast they can burn it to keep them warm in the winter when energy companies get run out of business. Have you been to a small middle class town with in the past 10 years? They've mostly all degraded into drug havens as their isn't a good legitimate way to make money there anymore.

Again i will remind you that the iraq war wasn't started because of oil in the 00's, it was prevented from happening in the 90's because of oil. In the 90's, they (iraq's government) bombed us domestically twice (first world trade center, oklahoma city) as well as try to take the life of bush senior (overseas). If you believe in the 9-11 conspiracy you are an idiot because you would also need to explain how the government was behind those two attacks as well as flight 800 (and the bombing over in somalia). They had WMD's at one time (go in nothern iraq and look at the mass graves made for the thousands killed by chemical weapons) and thats a good enough lie to get in there because the truth would be really hard to accept.

The truth is we were attacked and they (our government) put the money we were making from "peace" ahead of the general security of the people that live here. This is a consistant pattern of action that is being taken today. They bring in millions of illegal workers just to save a couple cents in production costs. Those few cents are more important to them than the people that elected them to office.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

KL for president.

p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.


Iraq attacked you? however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.

[Kirkland Laing]

The economy is only growing expodentially faster for people who already have more money than they know what to do with. The middle class is quickly losing ground. They can't take a job with humane working conditions or benefits because companies can't afford to do that. It's insourcing a job instead of outsourcing, they're both just as bad for the middle class (which i'll remind you composes a VAST majority of america).

Companies are closing left and right because they refuse to break the law to make ends meet. I don't know where you live, but where i live, 2 major factories just shut down. Those jobs paid atleast $15 an hour. Those jobs are no longer available because they wouldn't cut benefits to their employees or hire cheap labor. Since you wanna use numbers, thats about 1,000 people out of a job with benefits which now adds to the strain on the government to provide for them. Thats right the government, not democrats (pc crazy hippies in denial of their own mental illiness), not republicans (fat old rich "god sent" leaders), the government.

Regardless of party lines, they all have special interest groups they lean towards to get elected. The democrats favor the gays (biggest mental illiness group on their roster) and angry minorites who they've brainwashed into thinking they are victims. The republicans favor the delusional churches and any business that will throw money at them.

All they care about is money which is funny because the way they're all going, nobody that lives here will have any to give them after the insane taxes that they'd need to collect to balance their policies and the money they do collect won't be worth anything as they continually destroy the dollars value day in and day out. Atleast they can burn it to keep them warm in the winter when energy companies get run out of business. Have you been to a small middle class town with in the past 10 years? They've mostly all degraded into drug havens as their isn't a good legitimate way to make money there anymore.

Again i will remind you that the iraq war wasn't started because of oil in the 00's, it was prevented from happening in the 90's because of oil. In the 90's, they (iraq's government) bombed us domestically twice (first world trade center, oklahoma city) as well as try to take the life of bush senior (overseas). If you believe in the 9-11 conspiracy you are an idiot because you would also need to explain how the government was behind those two attacks as well as flight 800 (and the bombing over in somalia). They had WMD's at one time (go in nothern iraq and look at the mass graves made for the thousands killed by chemical weapons) and thats a good enough lie to get in there because the truth would be really hard to accept.

The truth is we were attacked and they (our government) put the money we were making from "peace" ahead of the general security of the people that live here. This is a consistant pattern of action that is being taken today. They bring in millions of illegal workers just to save a couple cents in production costs. Those few cents are more important to them than the people that elected them to office.

Yes, unquestionably the American middle class are starting to suffer from globalisation. But they're also suffering because since Reagan there's been a shift in the tax burden from the top 1% of earners to the middle and lower income brackets. Middle class taxes are too high because they're gradually being given a greater share of the overall tax burden over the past thirty years. Reagan and Bush 41 shafted the middle/lower incomes in the 80s/90s and sent their taxes skyrocketing, then George Bush 43 got the very same dummies to vote for him in 2000 because their taxes were too high. And again, the mentally ill people are the ones voting GOP who don't earn more than $250 K pa. The people voting Democratic actually mostly have a clue what's going on in the world.


Even dumbass George Bush admitted Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and nowhere did I mention any conspiracy theories about 9/11, so it's you with the idiotic theories, not me. There are only a small bunch of dead-enders, the Bush Fedayeen, who continue to believe looney tune stuff like that, because they can't admit they were lied into an illegal war for oil.

The Iraq war was indeed started because of oil. You can't name a single thing we've done in the Middle East since WW2 that wasn't to maintain and extend our control of the oil reserves there. All the problems we're now facing from Islamic terrorism are due to our actions in the region over the last half century. Like Iran, for instance. If we hadn't overthrown a democratically elected secular government and replaced it with a military dictatorship in the 1950s because they made the mistake of thinking they owned their own oilfields then there'd never have been an Iranian problem for us to deal with.

[USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS]

Here's an interesting article. Especially interesting the massive cost and loss of over 80 hospitals and jobs due to all the free medical care given. This free care needs to be put to an end, unless we decide to change how medical care is given; like U.K. or Canada.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/170334.shtml

Good article LEGION what's so bad is that this is a reflection of whats to come all over the country.If they don't pay their hospital bills they wont pay for anything else so the tax payers will have to pay more taxes to cover this.Here are a few more articles on how we benefit from illegals.


http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42474
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html

[Kirkland Laing]

Here's an interesting article. Especially interesting the massive cost and loss of over 80 hospitals and jobs due to all the free medical care given. This free care needs to be put to an end, unless we decide to change how medical care is given; like U.K. or Canada.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/170334.shtml

Good article LEGION what's so bad is that this is a reflection of whats to come all over the country.If they don't pay their hospital bills they wont pay for anything else so the tax payers will have to pay more taxes to cover this.Here are a few more articles on how we benefit from illegals.


http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42474
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html

Undocumented-Americans pay billions into America's social security system and don't get a penny back because they're using false ss numbers. The economic benefits of mass immigration far outweigh the benefits -- that's why the US government lets them in. If you're doing well in America then you benefit greatly from the mass immigration. If you're in the section of society that's competing with them, then go back to school to improve yourself and/or work harder. That's the American way, isn't it, not whining about something which is going to continue no matter what. America is a nation of immigrants and that's never going to change because mass immigration has made the American economy what it is today.

[El Kabong]

KL for president.

p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.


Iraq attacked you? however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.

....another liberal wussy telling us everything would be ok if we taxed everyone heavily and gave all our money to poor dolts who will spend it on lottery tickets and booze!

KL if I am not mistaken I do believe only LEGAL citizens pay ALL their taxes and fund the government programs that provide for the ILLEGAL immigrants. Call me crazy but I doubt that all Illegals get paid with the taxes taken out of their checks.

If you think Illegals pay into social security you just lost this debate because that is fucking moronic! ILLEGALS GET PAID UNDER THE TABLE so not only do they not pay taxes, their emplayers don't have to pay taxes....everyone is getting too greedy and it's going to bite us just like the housing market!

KL all you did was explain why UNIONS should be run out of existance with all this talk of "labor stoppages" and I have a remedy for you. The United States already has a Department of Labor, hence there is no reason for the money grubbing theiving Unions to run anything anymore.

[USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS]

Here's an interesting article. Especially interesting the massive cost and loss of over 80 hospitals and jobs due to all the free medical care given. This free care needs to be put to an end, unless we decide to change how medical care is given; like U.K. or Canada.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/170334.shtml

Good article LEGION what's so bad is that this is a reflection of whats to come all over the country.If they don't pay their hospital bills they wont pay for anything else so the tax payers will have to pay more taxes to cover this.Here are a few more articles on how we benefit from illegals.


http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42474
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html

Undocumented-Americans pay billions into America's social security system and don't get a penny back because they're using false ss numbers. The economic benefits of mass immigration far outweigh the benefits -- that's why the US government lets them in. If you're doing well in America then you benefit greatly from the mass immigration. If you're in the section of society that's competing with them, then go back to school to improve yourself and/or work harder. That's the American way, isn't it, not whining about something which is going to continue no matter what. America is a nation of immigrants and that's never going to change because mass immigration has made the American economy what it is today.

Mass immigration is not good for any country,hell this is more like an invasion the way these criminals come into the US.

[El Kabong]

....I just want to know how illegals pay into social security when they don't get paychecks they just get cash so the business owners don't have to pay more into social security.


Greedy businesses are selling the US down the river not realizing we're the best place to own and opperate businesses

[Kirkland Laing]

....I just want to know how illegals pay into social security when they don't get paychecks they just get cash so the business owners don't have to pay more into social security.


Greedy businesses are selling the US down the river not realizing we're the best place to own and opperate businesses

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.


http://www.globalaging.org/pension/u...05/illegal.htm


The US is a great place to run a business precisely because of the unregulated labour market.

[El Kabong]

The US is a great place to run a business because we have low taxes, a large workforce, people willing to work more than 30 hours a week and not riot, AND we have personal accountability ie if you don't do your job you get fired......Unions of course try to change all of that and they are the reason illegal immigration continues: The democrats want to feed the Unions new members and the Republicans want to drive them out of the business entirely by lowering wages.

AMERICANS dislike ILLEGAL immigrants.....regular people who move to the US and become citizens are celebrated here.


Illegals break the law coming to this country, they use services they do not pay for, I am 100% certain Mr. Martinez is in the minority of illegals when you state that he pays all the taxes and how convieniant to cite someone who is illegal and yet he's still here in the US BITCHING about paying taxes....why doesn't he learn english and go through the naturalization process like a REAL US CITIZEN.

Seven million is pocket change considering this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...rch_localcosts


Keep it coming, ILLEGALS are no good for the American citizen

[Kirkland Laing]

The US is a great place to run a business because we have low taxes, a large workforce, people willing to work more than 30 hours a week and not riot, AND we have personal accountability ie if you don't do your job you get fired......Unions of course try to change all of that and they are the reason illegal immigration continues: The democrats want to feed the Unions new members and the Republicans want to drive them out of the business entirely by lowering wages.

AMERICANS dislike ILLEGAL immigrants.....regular people who move to the US and become citizens are celebrated here.


Illegals break the law coming to this country, they use services they do not pay for, I am 100% certain Mr. Martinez is in the minority of illegals when you state that he pays all the taxes and how convieniant to cite someone who is illegal and yet he's still here in the US BITCHING about paying taxes....why doesn't he learn english and go through the naturalization process like a REAL US CITIZEN.

Seven million is pocket change considering this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug25.html

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...rch_localcosts


Keep it coming, ILLEGALS are no good for the American citizen

More nonsensical ranting. The US is a great place for business because it's the world's biggest marketplace and there's a huge unregulated labour market to employ from. Unions are almost nonexistent in America now, and the jobs illegals do in America are almost all in nonunionised sectors.


Studies by anti-immigration groups in your links mean as much as me posting studies by pro-immigration groups -- they're just a bunch of cherry-picked factlets stiched together to make a case.

Illegals contribute seven billion a year in ss taxes -- that's billion with a "b".



The US economy relies on mass immigration to keep going.


The only reason illegals are illegal is the GOP has been able to use immigration as a political football for decades to get ignorant dummies to vote for them. Now that they need the Hispanic vote to remain competetive in national elections, they're going to have to do what the Democrats have wanted to for decades, which means bring in a legal immigration programme to allow US businesses the quantity of labour it needs. Then they'll all be legal taxpayers and you won't have any excuse for bashing them, although facts and evidence clearly don't matter to you so I'm sure you'll keep on keeping on.

My advice to you is to go back to school or work harder, then you'll be part of the America that most feels the benefit from mass immigration. It may ease the hatred a little bit. You need to understand that if immigration was a net loss to the US there'd have been an impenetrable barrier along the southern border for a century now. But it's a net gain so mass immigration is only going to continue -- the US population will soar over 450 million by 2050. To avoid getting even more bitter and twisted and to share in America's future economic success, get yourself back to school and increase your earning power.

[USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS]

My fellow Americans look at what is really going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sMHmerZdiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGzvkbg1OR8