Can Cotto Be As Good As Felix Trinidad Was ??

[Wacko3205]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think Wacko means he is less one dimensional than Tito was, Cotto has shown us arrange of boxing skills, like fighting on the back foot and countering, switching southpaw, using his jab etc.

Where as Tito never had a plan b.

Exactly...& I really don't think that that's such a hard think to see if you take off the rose tinted glasses when it comes to Trinidad.

Oscar, Hopkins, & Wright all made Trinidad look confused...& quite honestly...Hopkins made him look silly...ridiculous.

Cotto is a much more well rounded boxer than Trinidad ever was.

Rose-colored glasses for Trinidad isn't the issue. Cotto is one of my favorite fighters.

Do you think prime Winky and prime Hopkins, both at 160, would not clearly beat Cotto as well? I sure think they would.

Your'e talking about weight...I'm talking about talent.

Honestly...I didn't expect Cotto to handle Judah, Quintana, & Mosley the way that he did...so pitted against a lighter version of Wright or Hopkins or Oscar...prime or not...pressed against Cotto's prime...I don't think it's as ludicrous as you are trying to make it seem.

Cotto's got something...that extra special something...I aint sure whether or not it's heart...guts...or just the desire to want to totally tear into his opponent...but whatever it is...it's been getting bigger, brighter, & better with each fight...& to be honest...unless he get's in with Floyd or get's stupid against Williams or Margarito...I just don't know who I'd lean on to beat him.

[ICB]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

He doesn't mean he has accomplished more than Tito he means, he think's Cotto has more arrange of skills than Tito had, And he is less 1 dimensional.

[Wacko3205]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

We will have to disagree...yes...because if you can't see all the variety in Cotto's game versus Tito's...well...then yes...we just have to disagree.

[Wacko3205]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

He doesn't mean he has accomplished more than Tito he means, he think's Cotto has more arrange of skills than Tito had, And he is less 1 dimensional.

Exactly.

Cotto has proven to be a much smarter fighter...when he set's down in his game. He's absolutely 100% more multi-dimensional than Trinidad ever even thought of entertaining.

[SweetPea]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

He doesn't mean he has accomplished more than Tito he means, he think's Cotto has more arrange of skills than Tito had, And he is less 1 dimensional.

And that's a highly debateable a point.

Regardless, in his original post, he said Cotto was "better." When you say someone is better, then you're talking about accomplishment, in one way or another.

Do you think Zab Judah and a 36 year old Mosley would have fared better against a prime 147 pound Tito than they did against a prime 147 pound Cotto? I don't.

[SweetPea]

And by the way, no one ever talked of Trinidad being completely one-dimensional until he was dismantled by Hopkins, and later Wright. Let's see how Cotto fares when he faces someone of that caliber.

[ICB]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

He doesn't mean he has accomplished more than Tito he means, he think's Cotto has more arrange of skills than Tito had, And he is less 1 dimensional.

Exactly.

Cotto has proven to be a much smarter fighter...when he set's down in his game. He's absolutely 100% more multi-dimensional than Trinidad ever even thought of entertaining.

I agree Cotto has changed his gameplan, plenty of times in fights with Mosley, Judah, Abdulaev, he has shown he can fight off the backfoot and Counter. Switching Southpaw, using his Jab, patient, body and head shots etc. Tito in fights with Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright never changed his gameplan. In the Wright fight Tito kept getting caught with the same basic combo from Wright and never once tried to change his gameplan in the fights i mentioned.

[ICB]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

He doesn't mean he has accomplished more than Tito he means, he think's Cotto has more arrange of skills than Tito had, And he is less 1 dimensional.

And that's a highly debateable a point.

Regardless, in his original post, he said Cotto was "better." When you say someone is better, then you're talking about accomplishment, in one way or another.

Do you think Zab Judah and a 36 year old Mosley would have fared better against a prime 147 pound Tito than they did against a prime 147 pound Cotto? I don't.

Regardless, in his original post, he said Cotto was "better." When you say someone is better, then you're talking about accomplishment, in one way or another.

He wasn't though, he never said he thought Cotto has achieved more than Tito. He was basically saying Cotto has more of a arrange of skills than Tito has.

[SweetPea]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

He doesn't mean he has accomplished more than Tito he means, he think's Cotto has more arrange of skills than Tito had, And he is less 1 dimensional.

And that's a highly debateable a point.

Regardless, in his original post, he said Cotto was "better." When you say someone is better, then you're talking about accomplishment, in one way or another.

Do you think Zab Judah and a 36 year old Mosley would have fared better against a prime 147 pound Tito than they did against a prime 147 pound Cotto? I don't.

Regardless, in his original post, he said Cotto was "better." When you say someone is better, then you're talking about accomplishment, in one way or another.

He wasn't though, he never said he thought Cotto has achieved more than Tito. He was basically saying Cotto has more of a arrange of skills than Tito has.

Well then I would be interested to see his answer to the question I posed before:
Do you think Zab Judah and a 36 year old Mosley would have fared better against a prime 147 pound Tito than they did against a prime 147 pound Cotto?

Because if Cotto is better and has a wider array of skills, then the answer should be Yes. I say no.

[bzkfn]

He can be better.

[eagle]

Cotto has proven that he's a far better fighter than Tito...

Based on what?

Cotto COULD eventually prove to be the better fighter. I don't see how anyone could say he's clearly better yet.

I think that he's far more dynamic than Tito ever was.

Based on performances against Judah & Mosley to only name a couple of players.

More dynamic than Tito's performances at 147, his fight with Vargas at 154, and his destruction of Joppy at 160?

As I said before...I think that Cotto's far more superior at this moment...& Cotto's still improving & far from his peak.

Cotto has only just arrived at 147...so as I stated...at this moment...I consider him to be the better boxer based on what he's already done. Yes.

Haven't see him at either one of those weights...unless you factor in what he undiciplinly weighed against Corley.

I honestly don't believe that Cotto would be really effective at 160lbs...but neither was Tito.

I just think that Cotto's a hell of a lot more well rounded & if he get's in with a skilled boxer, like he did with Mosley, he won't get pressed like a pair of cotton slacks as Trinidad did against Wright...who owned him with a jab & the same 1-2 combo all night long. Nor do I feel that he will buckled under the pressure like a belt as he did against Hopkins.

Cotto has been thrown in with some speedy skilled boxers & has surprised even his most debdicated fans...as I am proud to admit.

While it may be hard for you to see what I am trying to get at...it's just under the surface...one that Cotto has yet to even scratch...but it's there. Plain to see.

Cotto can, has, & will be great.

OK, it's probably best that we agree to disagree. Because while I'll agree that Cotto has the potential to get better (and be better than Tito), I just do not see how he can, at his point in his career, already be considered a better fighter than someone (Tito) who will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

He doesn't mean he has accomplished more than Tito he means, he think's Cotto has more arrange of skills than Tito had, And he is less 1 dimensional.

And that's a highly debateable a point.

Regardless, in his original post, he said Cotto was "better." When you say someone is better, then you're talking about accomplishment, in one way or another.

Do you think Zab Judah and a 36 year old Mosley would have fared better against a prime 147 pound Tito than they did against a prime 147 pound Cotto? I don't.

Regardless, in his original post, he said Cotto was "better." When you say someone is better, then you're talking about accomplishment, in one way or another.

He wasn't though, he never said he thought Cotto has achieved more than Tito. He was basically saying Cotto has more of a arrange of skills than Tito has.

Well then I would be interested to see his answer to the question I posed before:
Do you think Zab Judah and a 36 year old Mosley would have fared better against a prime 147 pound Tito than they did against a prime 147 pound Cotto?

Because if Cotto is better and has a wider array of skills, then the answer should be Yes. I say no.

I agree with u mate. Prime Trinidad would destroy judah within 5, and beat a 36 yr old mosely much easier than Cotto. Not very often Wacko is wrong, but in his own words i think he is looking thru rose coloured glasses at Cotto.
Prime trinidad at 147 would ko Cotto imo.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Had you asked me a year or so ago my answer would have been straight forward and simple...No.

However in the past year the cotto machine has impressed me to the extent that i have become completely enthralled by him...
His handling of Zab was only equalled by Mayweathers dominace of Judah.
His beating of Mosely was the equivalnet of the Wright fights....
And his fight against Torres will,linger in memory forever...I thought he was vulnerable then and ripe for the taking!!!

Yet he advances and improves, he got 11 rounds expierience from Judah and 12 from Mosely...I feel that the Cotto we se now is not the finished article and in actuality he will be better than Trinidad in the future.

[ICB]

Had you asked me a year or so ago my answer would have been straight forward and simple...No.

However in the past year the cotto machine has impressed me to the extent that i have become completely enthralled by him...
His handling of Zab was only equalled by Mayweathers dominace of Judah.
His beating of Mosely was the equivalnet of the Wright fights....
And his fight against Torres will,linger in memory forever...I thought he was vulnerable then and ripe for the taking!!!

Yet he advances and improves, he got 11 rounds expierience from Judah and 12 from Mosely...I feel that the Cotto we se now is not the finished article and in actuality he will be better than Trinidad in the future.

His beating of Mosely was the equivalnet of the Wright fights....

Totally disagree Wright beat Mosley quite comfortably both times by atleast 4 rounds. In many peoples eyes Cotto vs Mosley was a draw or no more than 1 point in it either way.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Had you asked me a year or so ago my answer would have been straight forward and simple...No.

However in the past year the cotto machine has impressed me to the extent that i have become completely enthralled by him...
His handling of Zab was only equalled by Mayweathers dominace of Judah.
His beating of Mosely was the equivalnet of the Wright fights....
And his fight against Torres will,linger in memory forever...I thought he was vulnerable then and ripe for the taking!!!

Yet he advances and improves, he got 11 rounds expierience from Judah and 12 from Mosely...I feel that the Cotto we se now is not the finished article and in actuality he will be better than Trinidad in the future.

His beating of Mosely was the equivalnet of the Wright fights....

Totally disagree Wright beat Mosley quite comfortably both times by atleast 4 rounds. In many peoples eyes Cotto vs Mosley was a draw or no more than 1 point in it either way.

Had you asked me to elaborate I would have explained that I felt Cotto's win was similar to the wright fights in the context that Cotto appeared untroubled by Shanes power and speed and walked in to connect with his own more telling blows.

[ICB]

Had you asked me a year or so ago my answer would have been straight forward and simple...No.

However in the past year the cotto machine has impressed me to the extent that i have become completely enthralled by him...
His handling of Zab was only equalled by Mayweathers dominace of Judah.
His beating of Mosely was the equivalnet of the Wright fights....
And his fight against Torres will,linger in memory forever...I thought he was vulnerable then and ripe for the taking!!!

Yet he advances and improves, he got 11 rounds expierience from Judah and 12 from Mosely...I feel that the Cotto we se now is not the finished article and in actuality he will be better than Trinidad in the future.

His beating of Mosely was the equivalnet of the Wright fights....

Totally disagree Wright beat Mosley quite comfortably both times by atleast 4 rounds. In many peoples eyes Cotto vs Mosley was a draw or no more than 1 point in it either way.

Had you asked me to elaborate I would have explained that I felt Cotto's win was similar to the wright fights in the context that Cotto appeared untroubled by Shanes power and speed and walked in to connect with his own more telling blows.

Wright was much too big for Mosley and backed him up all night it was the opposite in the Cotto fight.