60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.

[Trainer Monkey]

CCool Click...In his day Ali was simply breath taking.

cc back Donny,he was just one of a kind. He could do what few other fighters will ever get away with,he could play with you.Just goof off,until he was done with you.Imagine it,a heavyweight title fight,where one of the combatants is just playing until he gets bored with youAnd then,its your time to be on the canvas wondering how you got there.The look on his knockouts opponents faces can only be described as,"How did this happen,I thought I was hanging with him"

Yeah the examples of that which most stick with me were Al "Blue" Lewis and as I've already mentione today the Bonavena fight.

Against Al Lewis, Ali wanted to impress, he let Lewis fight even with him and Lewis at his own game couldn't beat Ali. Ali stopped him late as I've said fighting Lewis' fight.

With Bonavena it seemed even. Then the corner mentioned to Ali that it may have been even on the cards. Bang, left hook and Ali became the only man to stop Oscar (Joe Frazier failed to stop him (twice) and foreman failed to stop him)

Ali had it All

The two fights I use to contrast and compare
Patterson and Foley
Foley was a nice and respectful guy,so Ali let it go just long enough so it made good TV,and then he turned him off "click"
Patterson on the other hand thought he'd get in to Ali's head by constantly referring to Ali as Clay,now this is a multiple time Heavyweight Champion,Ali just tortures him out there,screaming at Patterson as he hit him "Whats my name?"

[ICB]

I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson I have only watched the fight once and i will never watch it again. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone shut Ali's damn mouth.

[Trainer Monkey]

I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone just Ali's damn mouth.

Patterson wasnt being a nice guy before the fight,in alot of ways he made Ali, the way he talked.He urinated all over Ali's religion every single chance he got.He taught Ali that all is fair to sell a fight.
30 years of emnity between Ali and Frazier probably wouldnt have happened if Floyd had been that much of a "nice guy"

[ICB]

I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone just Ali's damn mouth.

Patterson wasnt being a nice guy before the fight,in alot of ways he made Ali, the way he talked.He urinated all over Ali's religion every single chance he got.He taught Ali that all is fair to sell a fight.
30 years of emnity between Ali and Frazier probably wouldnt have happened if Floyd had been that much of a "nice guy"

Sorry but i never liked Ali he was a racist, and not only because of that i just didn't like him from what i see, i enjoy some of his fights but i find most of them boring.

[Trainer Monkey]

I actually hated what Ali done that to a nice guy like Patterson. Ali kept calling out Holmes and called him peanut head etc, then got his a** handed to him i don't like the fight but it was good to see someone just Ali's damn mouth.

Patterson wasnt being a nice guy before the fight,in alot of ways he made Ali, the way he talked.He urinated all over Ali's religion every single chance he got.He taught Ali that all is fair to sell a fight.
30 years of emnity between Ali and Frazier probably wouldnt have happened if Floyd had been that much of a "nice guy"

Sorry but i never liked Ali he was a racist, and not only because of that i just didn't like him from what i see, i enjoy some of his fights but i find most of them boring.

Your right they are boring,in hindsight,you know hes going to win almost allways
Ali was racist?
Yeah him with his white trainer and everything
Vietnam was racist,George Wallace sure as hell was,what happened to the AIM and Black Panther movemnet,oh my yes.Ali reacted to the reality of this country at the time.
Tell me,since he was such a racist,at a time when you could get arrested and disapeer for protesting your own racist treatment in America,did he ever say to Dundee,"I hate you, your white"?

[Wayne]

There's only 1 fighter I can see as unbeatable and that is a motivated Lennox Lewis. He had everything: size, power, speed, combinations. He wouldn't have let Ali sucker him into punching himself out while Ali hung on the ropes; he would have just given him a 1-2 until Ali realized he was falling behind and Lennox wasn't going anywhere. Ali would have had to come out and box and that flash jab would have been good until Lennox caught him with his own. I hate to say it because I love Tyson, but prime for prime, Lewis wins. Mike had too many psychological issues to beat Lewis. He would have caved in the middle rounds once he realized Lennox wasn't about to be intimidated. That's why he just stood there like a zombie until Lennox put him down (although it took a lot of hard shots).

[donnydarkoIRL]

There's only 1 fighter I can see as unbeatable and that is a motivated Lennox Lewis. He had everything: size, power, speed, combinations. He wouldn't have let Ali sucker him into punching himself out while Ali hung on the ropes; he would have just given him a 1-2 until Ali realized he was falling behind and Lennox wasn't going anywhere. Ali would have had to come out and box and that flash jab would have been good until Lennox caught him with his own. I hate to say it because I love Tyson, but prime for prime, Lewis wins. Mike had too many psychological issues to beat Lewis. He would have caved in the middle rounds once he realized Lennox wasn't about to be intimidated. That's why he just stood there like a zombie until Lennox put him down (although it took a lot of hard shots).

Whilst I agree on the Tyson issue I've got to disagree about Ali-Lewis. I think Lewis is ATG material, but he's just behind Ali for me. Ali had too much flexability, too much speed and too many traps. Lewis would have been outpointed in a close competitive fight.

[Wayne]

No question Ali was faster. But Lewis was no slouch. If he could touch Ali with that 1-2 (he was one of the best at it at HW) Ali would be hurting. I think he would have put Ali on a speed cycle and he would have burned himself out by the late rounds trying to stay away from that long reach. In the late rounds he would have been the more tired of the two as his punches would have taken more out of him considering their frequency and Lennox would have come on and knocked him down 1-2 times. Ali was prone to a flash knock down and it would have been even moreso as he tired. Lewis by SD, I think.

[donnydarkoIRL]

No question Ali was faster. But Lewis was no slouch. If he could touch Ali with that 1-2 (he was one of the best at it at HW) Ali would be hurting. I think he would have put Ali on a speed cycle and he would have burned himself out by the late rounds trying to stay away from that long reach. In the late rounds he would have been the more tired of the two as his punches would have taken more out of him considering their frequency and Lennox would have come on and knocked him down 1-2 times. Ali was prone to a flash knock down and it would have been even moreso as he tired. Lewis by SD, I think.

Well it's a possability, but I feel the younger Ali didn't tire. He was so gifted as a natural athlete and almost perfect for the fight game. I still picture his counters versus fighters like Zora Folley, Clevland Williams and Jerry Quarry and think that he could counter any heavyweaight like that and they wouldn't have a chance.

He changed and adapted as fights went on and I feel he would just edge Lewis as his reflexes protected him form Lewis' punches (which i feel were in the top 2/3 hardest ever.)

[Dark Lord Al]

Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.

[Wayne]

I can see that too. I don't think Ali would just tire. I think Lewis would force him to fight at a faster pace and that would make him tire. Lewis is more than likely better than every big man Ali ever faced, including Foreman as he knew how to rely on things other than his power. Lewis could move and one of his favorite things was to keep you on the edge of that jab of his. Ali would have had to work to get inside and Lennox would have sprung that right on him when he did. Ali would have been burning the candle at both ends to react to Lennox's quick 1-2 and working to get around his jab. Lewis never gave up his most natural advantage- his height. He would have kept that guard around his body and made Ali work to get to his head. That would have been a tall order.

Klitschko Ali would have had an easier time with. He hits harder, but he's not quite as fast or well polished. Ali's speed would have blanked him- he wouldn't have seen the jab coming and his chin is allergic to leather. I say Ali KOs him and in a hurry because he wouldn't have wanted to risk getting caught clean with that right hand.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.

A reasonabler opinion and not outlandish.
He was a great fighter a guy who (similar to Ali) was a natural athlete, but had the strength of mind ad determination to converrt that into success.

See Audley Harrisson another guy gifted physically, but just not blessed with the mentality to be a good fighter.

I can see that too. I don't think Ali would just tire. I think Lewis would force him to fight at a faster pace and that would make him tire. Lewis is more than likely better than every big man Ali ever faced, including Foreman as he knew how to rely on things other than his power. Lewis could move and one of his favorite things was to keep you on the edge of that jab of his. Ali would have had to work to get inside and Lennox would have sprung that right on him when he did. Ali would have been burning the candle at both ends to react to Lennox's quick 1-2 and working to get around his jab. Lewis never gave up his most natural advantage- his height. He would have kept that guard around his body and made Ali work to get to his head. That would have been a tall order.

Klitschko Ali would have had an easier time with. He hits harder, but he's not quite as fast or well polished. Ali's speed would have blanked him- he wouldn't have seen the jab coming and his chin is allergic to leather. I say Ali KOs him and in a hurry because he wouldn't have wanted to risk getting caught clean with that right hand.

In that fight I really thoink it would be to the wire, but for me ali could clinch it, for you mayb Lewis.

It would be similar with the judges but I'd say SD to Ali.

[The Fightfan]

To me I don't think Ali was even near the greatest fighter in the heavies.Let's be honest the guy held entirely too much and was never penalized.I mean I watched the Frazier trilogy recently and not once was he deducted a point for constantly pull down behind the neck.I counted 108 clinches in the 2nd Ali fight mostly from Frazier trying to come in close and Ali grabbing behind the head.Holding is a foul.Rule number 1 in all off the organization hand books is there is NO HOLDING ALLOWED.Not only was it so obvious in the Frazier fight but The Shavers,fight along with Bonavena,Norton,Foreman and yes they are all in the tapes watch them carefully.Another I could never understand late in Ali's career I must ask how in the hell do you win a round by sitting on the ropes and tapping at your oppenents head.To me the fight game went a different route almost to an amateur level when Ali came around.Rounds went to the guy who landed more points but back before Ali it was too the agressor and the man who came to fight.Anyway I would take many to beat Ali if the ref wasn't so threatened by Ali's entourage and following.

[ICB]

To me I don't think Ali was even near the greatest fighter in the heavies.Let's be honest the guy held entirely too much and was never penalized.I mean I watched the Frazier trilogy recently and not once was he deducted a point for constantly pull down behind the neck.I counted 108 clinches in the 2nd Ali fight mostly from Frazier trying to come in close and Ali grabbing behind the head.Holding is a foul.Rule number 1 in all off the organization hand books is there is NO HOLDING ALLOWED.Not only was it so obvious in the Frazier fight but The Shavers,fight along with Bonavena,Norton,Foreman and yes they are all in the tapes watch them carefully.Another I could never understand late in Ali's career I must ask how in the hell do you win a round by sitting on the ropes and tapping at your oppenents head.To me the fight game went a different route almost to an amateur level when Ali came around.Rounds went to the guy who landed more points but back before Ali it was too the agressor and the man who came to fight.Anyway I would take many to beat Ali if the ref wasn't so threatened by Ali's entourage and following.

Have your 4 CC on me well said i never can understand where all this *Ali Is Unbeatable* Stuff comes from, i mean really and truthfuly you could make a case for Ali having 10 losses on his record. And IMO he should for 100 percent have at least 8 losses on his record he got gift decisions off. Young, Shavers, Norton 3rd fight, and if he would have lost these fights like a lot of people thought he should have then would people still consider him Greatest Heavyweight of all time ??

[The Fightfan]

I agree 100 percent