The Dynamic Power Of Wing Chun

[Von Milash]

I wasn't trying to be a prick about it! I'm just trying to understand.... it just seems like those are the typical "moves" that make WC "Deadly".

[hanlon]

wing chun is basically taught as a "self defence" art, a way both men and women, big and small people can use their body to its maximum efficiency to defend from a persons attack, the eye gouging, knee breaking and stuff its about that. It follows on if you are attacked by somebody (on the street), anything goes so you should use "anything" in your power to take the guy down. Of course this has no application in MMA leagues, however even without the illegal moves wing chun can still be (on paper right now) a good striking art in organized mma fights, just like all striking systems can be, all of them depend on its user not the style everyone always tells me

"A wing chun master is just gonna be taken down by a jiujitsu guy and pounded"

or

"there were wing chun masters at the start and they got their butts kicked"

of course if they only know wing chun they probably wont get far, thats why its MMA you can learn wing chun and jiujitsu and it will better your chances.

and the wing chun masters at the start probably didnt have alot of experience with organized fighting, wing chun is not especially known for its competetivness.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Hanlon;

In yopur last post you claim that it is taught primarily as a self defense form, yet in a previous post you stated it is not the most defensive of forms.
Conflicting, No?

[Andre]

So Andre, I have no doubt that after all these years of study you're a tough fellow to mess with. But here's what gets me... you always hear guys defend wing chun in terms of "well it can't be shown to work in a real situation or in mma because it would kill someone." Specifically, you hear of eye gouges and the like, so my question to you is, do you really need to study all those years to learn how to gouge someone's eyes? I know nothing about WC but I'll BET I can gouge someone's eyes out with the best of them. That's just fighting dirty. In addition to gouging eyes, I can bite, kick to the groin and shins, pull hair, headbutt, bend someone's finger back until it breaks, etc.

BTW, if you can get someone in a leg lock and snap their knee before they tap, perfectly legit in mma.

Its a system within itsself mate. And Im not tough at all,probably was once but im very fast for a 50 year old .

To do those things you mentioned is one thing and to be honest I know men, jail birds etc who are untrained and would just rip someone apart in any way they can, Im mean you know and so do i that there are diffenernet people out here in the world and the ones with zero consiouss are the worse and cant lose cause they are comming at you for your whole life until your finished or maimed unless you kill them on the first day,or avoid them totaly,which is an art too;to be able to even get onside with someone like that,aside from not fighting them.

Anyway wing chun is a set 3 form system that at the finish all blends into ione fighting system that unfortunatley cant be used unless you do want to finish some completly. It starts out by strengthing your core system through the small idea stagnent form which also trains your mind and muscles like a very slow motion tai chi with reverse mind /body strength exersizes entwined into the correct form.


This sorts out the impatient from the club and many leave during the initial year of work,and thats a good thing, its designed for that too.

The next form in 2 to 3 years time is chum kill, its when wing chun starts to move more and you learn the bridging form so you can move in and out through all distances safley and know the threats in each. It also teaches you to move in and out from the inside of peoples arms to the outside of their arms in saftey as well as from the in fight to the out fight and back again.
wing chun punches are straight as youve seen and the footwork behind them is what turns them into crosses etc. they are the fastest of combination punches as you can see but as you now they lack some strength compared to other styles.

Anyway the last form you learn is the thrusting fingers form,this incorperates everything you have learned except with the punches which are mainly elbows in, as you've seen, the fingers and arms in this form act like fast snakes, the whole thing is desigined around the three main joints up each arm and the effect if faster than the wing chun punches and the targets are all dim mak intent or eyes throat under the arm penetrations are big too (which upset the heart meridian). Gouges probably the wrong word,more full finger penetration throughthe eyeswith thewrist coking and fireing on the end of each strike is more to the point;
actually the whole last form is about bringing all the forms together for unarmed combat in a real situation with arm breaks,locks,and finger strikes etc the thing that glues together wing chun is the chi sao or sticking hands exersies which give your forearms a feeling as to when to relaese whe to resist so when advanced it a flowing yet explosive thing to see.
As far as knee breaks goes its more likle to go down double armed grabs and direct their weight over a knee and stomp it or double slips around arms into their eyes tie them up and heel kick the knee thats got the weight on it still etc.

So you see you just cant go around doing that,you're better off walking the streets looking like Hyme out of Get smart and avoiding the natural crazies by being clever enough to know your limits and your aura thats emitting signals to these types.

If they come at you cause they think your soft target well they arnt the real thing and they pay.
Ive got some mates who rob anyone who dares to fuk with them and I think rightly so.If some punk wants to take your stuff let him crawl home tapping his way naked robbed and beaten.

ive other aquantainces that my mates who would maime you and rob you if you tried to takle them dont even go to the same places as cause they know they are natuarally for real.
I mean you seen it too bro you have to pull those types off of people cause they havent any control they dont know when to stop thats why they learnt their stuff inside the hole.The end game of wing chun is reserved for those types as is the end game of most martial arts. But wing chun is unfortuantely a system that links so you really do have to put the brakes on and its limiting because of it and you see only mid level wing chun fighters trying their luck in other fields.
I thikk theres much that every combat art has offer all others though , none is better or worse its down to a personal make up and their build and their mental and spiritual limits.The top en from each are rarley seen out their own place people generally come to them,they dont have an ego so in that sence ,no fight /no blame. the so called masters who fight publicly are only blacks i karate etc or tenth levels in others etc the real masters wouldnt even think about combat in order to prove something.

[hanlon]

Hanlon;

In yopur last post you claim that it is taught primarily as a self defense form, yet in a previous post you stated it is not the most defensive of forms.
Conflicting, No?

no, it isn't conflicting, you have to ask yourself what is "self defense," even though defined as the act of defending yourself, there are many ways to do so, including attacking "the best defense is a good offense," just because it is taught in many classes as a form of defending yourself, doesnt neccessaraly mean that its a defensive art, just about all arts are "taught" as self defense in classes, so doesn't that mean that all arts are defensive? no it doesnt.

[Andre]

Wing Chun was the name of the nun who the style was past down to from another nun Ng mui. So its come through two sisters. The nuns trained in it were formidable aversaries for not only the town bullies and war lords men but the thieves and soldiers who would try it on with them too.
The style is very balanced between thehard styles and the soft stlyes. It came originally from a mixture of all the animal styles from the south of China .
When the manchuians (i think it was) from the north took over goverment in the south. the Shao lin temple was the secret meeting point of the planned revolution. Many masters from the south joined in and all placed everything they knew and talked it out how to form a newart thatcould be taught faster and had the beest from each style in order to overthrow the goverment.
A spy working both sides sold them out and they were all surrounded and all burned along with the original temple. the only one to escape that had the knowledge of all the mixed martial arts from all the past meetings that were to be used to train a new army into revolt was a lady nun Ng mui who later in life past it onto the adopted girl of the monastry who was named Wing Chun (which means litterally "hope for the future").

[Munkymagic]

Blimey - old thread resurrected

William Cheung vs Emin Boztepe

Two Wing chun masters squaring off in a fine display of skill and power??

Or two fellas scrabbling around in an unskilled manner not dis similar to a couple of kids fighting in the playground, or two drunks 'having it' outside a burger joint on saturday night.

Not to rubbish any martial art because they are all tough. Wing Chun will give you attributes (very good attributes) but as far as real fighting is concerned I just dont rate it as a standalone system....sorry (reasons explained in an earlier post)

Apologies if the video below is dis respecting to your lineage Andre-thats not the intention mate. Just trying to highlight it a bit
Thanks for the history lesson though fellas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2fNPW9OgmY

[Andre]

Blimey - old thread resurrected

William Cheung vs Emin Boztepe

Two Wing chun masters squaring off in a fine display of skill and power??

Or two fellas scrabbling around in an unskilled manner not dis similar to a couple of kids fighting in the playground, or two drunks 'having it' outside a burger joint on saturday night.

Not to rubbish any martial art because they are all tough. Wing Chun will give you attributes (very good attributes) but as far as real fighting is concerned I just dont rate it as a standalone system....sorry (reasons explained in an earlier post)

Apologies if the video below is dis respecting to your lineage Andre-thats not the intention mate. Just trying to highlight it a bit
Thanks for the history lesson though fellas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2fNPW9OgmY

I dont care mate,seriously its on zero regarding styles and which is better, I know men who would kill masters in seconds cause they thats what they do they kill people with out thought of any consequencies.

Its no biggie mate,but theres not many masters of anything that are mentally prepared to go all out and take a life in a couple of seconds unles they have family they are protecting maybe.

I hadnt seen that video thanks for the link its interesting,That was a decent take down there, he forced Cheung one way and when Cheung reacted he flipped him the reverse way.

I couldnt pick that from any number of ufc bouts really and thats what fights look like when poeple are out to prove themselves in front oF A CROWD without actually killing each other.

[Munkymagic]

Fair play mate you make some good points and i agree! I would put my money on an unskilled fighter protecting his family from rape against a skilled fighter wanting to commit that crime. Which is why i say mindset is one of the most important things.

Although for me that fight looks very different to MMA or any number of UFC fights since both were clearly unskilled on the ground and the schoolboy scrabbling showed that.

[Andre]

Funny how that happens in some weigh ins too they just dont fight like they normally do for some reason ; even some boxers put their face down low and swing over hand bombs like a maniac or try and lean back to protect their face and land long shots without too much commitment.

I dont think Wing Chun is much chop on the ground to be honest.
It may be changing towards it, I doubt it in any serious way though.

I used to train with special operations group men who were only traiined in wing Chun and they used to go take stuff off the Hells Angles and every other bike gang around here once a year, so i would'nt place them as only having pitter patter shots. But hey, different mentality all the way than the other wc practitioners at that time without a doubt.

[Agent86]

There are not many good wing chun schools in the world. So those of you that think it is garbage havent found a good wc school yet.

I know for a fact that wing chun is taught to a number of special forces regiments in the world. Not mauy tai or karate. Bjj and ju jitsu nijitsu wing chun is taught.

I find that it is childish to offend another style and lacks repect and martial arts honour.

[Nameless]

There are not many good wing chun schools in the world. So those of you that think it is garbage havent found a good wc school yet.

I know for a fact that wing chun is taught to a number of special forces regiments in the world. Not mauy tai or karate. Bjj and ju jitsu nijitsu wing chun is taught.

I find that it is childish to offend another style and lacks repect and martial arts honour.

I know as well that the best special forces in the world do not learn that (Mossad learn Krav Maga, Russians are making Systema and some sambo etc) plus I don't think it was all about disrespect here, it was all about efficiency in real situations fighting with the level of versatility involved.

[Andre]

There are not many good wing chun schools in the world. So those of you that think it is garbage havent found a good wc school yet.

I know for a fact that wing chun is taught to a number of special forces regiments in the world. Not mauy tai or karate. Bjj and ju jitsu nijitsu wing chun is taught.

I find that it is childish to offend another style and lacks repect and martial arts honour.

I cant use the end form of Wing Chun on the street or in any normal type of competition. To use Bil gee against anyone is to maim them (mainly blind them with full force whiping like extended finger strikes) on the first move as it out reaches anyone with their fists.

This cant be done to anyone without serving serious time and cant be done morally to anyone who just threatens you in any way other than by death or your familys.

So at the end of the day, just like the dragons touch and few other techniques from the end of other styles : wing chun is just a art form practiced.

Other styles more concentrated on the middle of the road situations that incorporate any moral rules like competition will always beat wing chun because they practice those middle of the road techniques for that reason.


Wing Chuns basic sil lim tao and chum kill are middle of the road techniques and work well against normal people evn against groups of normal people and some lesser grades of other styles, but they serve more to build the foundation to be able to fight open handed using the system as a whole system which cannot be used. So its an art form simular to sword fighting these days.
(still, I wouldnt break into their houses ).


So you wont ever be seeing any wing Chun practitoners beating any mma guys or UFC guys i the ring but you may see the odd weight transfering technique eventually being used to remove a leg out of play etc, I hope not though.