Joel gets stopped - major surprise

[skel1983]

Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).

In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.

What a performance.

Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...

"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...

Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...

IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez

How the hell is Pac man number 1?

[killersheep]

Actually I forgot to retain Casamayor in my rankings... He was not dominated by Marquez so I'll place him at no. 5 ...

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Edwin Valero
7. Breidis Prescott
8. Michael Katsidis
9. Julio Diaz
10. David Diaz

1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis

Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.

I already explained this in my previous post in this thread... Anyway I already ranked Valero at lightweight since he is highly ranked (a champ) at his previous division. So Valero could be ranked preferably below (or could be higher) the current champs in his new division... This actually makes sense if you consider what PAC and JMM (very highly ranked at 130) did to the champs at 135...
.

No actually it makes no sense to rank someone who has never fought in a division.

[ICB]

1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis

Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.

I already explained this in my previous post in this thread... Anyway I already ranked Valero at lightweight since he is highly ranked (a champ) at his previous division. So Valero could be ranked preferably below (or could be higher) the current champs in his new division... This actually makes sense if you consider what PAC and JMM (very highly ranked at 130) did to the champs at 135...
.

No actually it makes no sense to rank someone who has never fought in a division.

Exactly thats like me rating Vernon Forrest number 6 in the Middleweight division its stupid and makes no sense.

[XaduBoxer]

Wrong, Casa had the ring title, JMM beat him that makes JMM the champ at light weight. Campbell beat the UNIFIED title holder Juan Diaz to take the spot behind Casa. SO with Campbell AND Marquez in the picture, PAC has NO claim to to number 1 at 135.

I still have PAC at #1 p4p because of the official decisions.

Of course we'll based it on official results... There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ...

So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):

Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt

With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell...

I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

[XaduBoxer]

1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis

Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.

I already explained this in my previous post in this thread... Anyway I already ranked Valero at lightweight since he is highly ranked (a champ) at his previous division. So Valero could be ranked preferably below (or could be higher) the current champs in his new division... This actually makes sense if you consider what PAC and JMM (very highly ranked at 130) did to the champs at 135...
.

No actually it makes no sense to rank someone who has never fought in a division.

So why was PAC and JMM who has not fought at lightweight were the favorites when they faced the lightweight champs respectively in their first fight in that division?

Rankings also worked this way, based on fighter's complete resume...
.

[killersheep]

Of course we'll based it on official results... There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ...

So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):

Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt

With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell...

I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

Since when has the betting favorite had anything to do with rank? I didn't see PAC or JMM ranked before their respective fights, I would love for you to provide some evidence of that.

[XaduBoxer]

I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

Since when has the betting favorite had anything to do with rank? I didn't see PAC or JMM ranked before their respective fights, I would love for you to provide some evidence of that.

Here's Fightnews dot com Lightweight rankings as of Sept. 8:

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Joel Casamayor
4. Juan Diaz
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Joan Guzman
7. Edwin Valero
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Michael Katsidis
10. Julio Diaz

Noticed that Guzman and Valero hasn't fought at lightweight yet but they are ranked already...
.

[XaduBoxer]

WBO Official Lightweight rankings as of Sept.

Champ NATE CAMPBELL USA Interim
1 Joan Guzman DR
2 Juan Diaz USA
3 Anthony Peterson USA
4 Jorge Terron (NABO) USA
5 Breidis Prescott (Int-Cont) COL
6 Michael Katsidis AUST
7 Martin Kristjansen DEN
8 Ali Funeka SA
9 Bobby Pacquiao (Asia-Pacific) PHI
10 Vicente Escobedo USA


Joan Guzman is there at no. 1 slot...
.

[killersheep]

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

Since when has the betting favorite had anything to do with rank? I didn't see PAC or JMM ranked before their respective fights, I would love for you to provide some evidence of that.

Here's Fightnews dot com Lightweight rankings as of Sept. 8:

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Joel Casamayor
4. Juan Diaz
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Joan Guzman
7. Edwin Valero
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Michael Katsidis
10. Julio Diaz

Noticed that Guzman and Valero hasn't fought at lightweight yet but they are ranked already...
.

So they are going for Fightnews.com belt?

Here, now that I've got you to accept the official decisions, how about we take the next step and look at the official rankings.

[ICB]

Of course we'll based it on official results... There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ...

So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):

Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt

With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell...

I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

No there not thats why we have a thing called P4P rankings and individual rankings for each weightclass the fact is *Lightweight rankings* are based on a fighters accomplishment at that weightclass not what they have done at other weightclasses your confusing P4P rankings with individual rankings thats not how it works and as for Edwin Valero again i can't see what your getting at ? Edwin Valero has never fought at Lightweight and has no fights scheduled at Lightweight its stupid logic and if we all thought that way then every single fighter at the top of there division would automatically be rated in a higher weightclass.

[XaduBoxer]

I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

No there not thats why we have a thing called P4P rankings and individual rankings for each weightclass the fact is *Lightweight rankings* are based on a fighters accomplishment at that weightclass not what they have done at other weightclasses your confusing P4P rankings with individual rankings thats not how it works and as for Edwin Valero again i can't see what your getting at ? Edwin Valero has never fought at Lightweight and has no fights scheduled at Lightweight its stupid logic and if we all thought that way then every single fighter at the top of there division would automatically be rated in a higher weightclass.

So why did WBO ranked Guzman no. 1 at lightweight when Guzman hasn't fought at lightweight yet ??

WBO Official Lightweight rankings as of Sept.

Champ NATE CAMPBELL USA Interim
1 Joan Guzman DR
2 Juan Diaz USA
3 Anthony Peterson USA
4 Jorge Terron (NABO) USA
5 Breidis Prescott (Int-Cont) COL
6 Michael Katsidis AUST
7 Martin Kristjansen DEN
8 Ali Funeka SA
9 Bobby Pacquiao (Asia-Pacific) PHI
10 Vicente Escobedo USA

[ICB]

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

No there not thats why we have a thing called P4P rankings and individual rankings for each weightclass the fact is *Lightweight rankings* are based on a fighters accomplishment at that weightclass not what they have done at other weightclasses your confusing P4P rankings with individual rankings thats not how it works and as for Edwin Valero again i can't see what your getting at ? Edwin Valero has never fought at Lightweight and has no fights scheduled at Lightweight its stupid logic and if we all thought that way then every single fighter at the top of there division would automatically be rated in a higher weightclass.

So why did WBO ranked Guzman no. 1 at lightweight when Guzman hasn't fought at lightweight yet ??

WBO Official Lightweight rankings as of Sept.

Champ NATE CAMPBELL USA Interim
1 Joan Guzman DR
2 Juan Diaz USA
3 Anthony Peterson USA
4 Jorge Terron (NABO) USA
5 Breidis Prescott (Int-Cont) COL
6 Michael Katsidis AUST
7 Martin Kristjansen DEN
8 Ali Funeka SA
9 Bobby Pacquiao (Asia-Pacific) PHI
10 Vicente Escobedo USA

Because he was fighting Nate Campbell who is the best Lightweight at the moment so it automatically makes him the number one centender does it not ?

[XaduBoxer]

Since when has the betting favorite had anything to do with rank? I didn't see PAC or JMM ranked before their respective fights, I would love for you to provide some evidence of that.

Here's Fightnews dot com Lightweight rankings as of Sept. 8:

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Joel Casamayor
4. Juan Diaz
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Joan Guzman
7. Edwin Valero
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Michael Katsidis
10. Julio Diaz

Noticed that Guzman and Valero hasn't fought at lightweight yet but they are ranked already...
.

So they are going for Fightnews.com belt?

Here, now that I've got you to accept the official decisions, how about we take the next step and look at the official rankings.

Fightnews got no belt but I consider its rankings the same with that of a magazine... They're both NOT an official sanctioning bodies...

[killersheep]

Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.

No there not thats why we have a thing called P4P rankings and individual rankings for each weightclass the fact is *Lightweight rankings* are based on a fighters accomplishment at that weightclass not what they have done at other weightclasses your confusing P4P rankings with individual rankings thats not how it works and as for Edwin Valero again i can't see what your getting at ? Edwin Valero has never fought at Lightweight and has no fights scheduled at Lightweight its stupid logic and if we all thought that way then every single fighter at the top of there division would automatically be rated in a higher weightclass.

So why did WBO ranked Guzman no. 1 at lightweight when Guzman hasn't fought at lightweight yet ??

WBO Official Lightweight rankings as of Sept.

Champ NATE CAMPBELL USA Interim
1 Joan Guzman DR
2 Juan Diaz USA
3 Anthony Peterson USA
4 Jorge Terron (NABO) USA
5 Breidis Prescott (Int-Cont) COL
6 Michael Katsidis AUST
7 Martin Kristjansen DEN
8 Ali Funeka SA
9 Bobby Pacquiao (Asia-Pacific) PHI
10 Vicente Escobedo USA

Because the WBO is just a strap organization and can be bought and sold.
Let's just recognize "The Ring" or you end up in this mess. You can't go with strap holder rankings because not only do they do bullshit like that, but they also don't rank other organizations Champs.

[kingfrnk]

it doesnt shock me i predicted it on one thread