Wlad Vs Other Careful Fighters

[El Kabong]

HBO didn't even want to buy the fight. If you are the representative of the Heavyweight division and you have to fight on ESPN classic then that should say something. AS much as they've been on Wlad's nuts lately they don't even want to televise the fight.

Apparently 61,000 people were more than willing to watch the fight in person...I think HBO fucked up to be honest, if they want David Haye so damn bad, why don't they sign him instead of Wladimir? If David Haye is the greatest heavyweight out there then why not sign him Well it's because Haye is all hype, he's beaten 2 bums, he may be "exciting" for some people to watch but to me he's just a very flawed fighter it's the difference in watching Arturo Gatti and Floyd Mayweather Jr. "excitement" vs SKILL.

You guys can talk shit about the heavyweight division but at the end of the day it has a dominant champion in Wladimir Klitschko, he won't get his respect now but he'll earn enough of it for people to bitch and moan about the next guy who tries to take over the division. The exact same thing happened to Lennox Lewis....why didn't Lennox take chances with David Tua Why didn't Lennox ALLOW Mike Tyson to hit him I mean that IS what you guys are arguing for when you are arguing against Wladimir and that's not boxing....so do everyone a favor and stick to the Toughman competitions you'll like that more than BOXING

[AdamGB]

Who says I was talking about this fight in particular?

the 61,000 might have had something to do with the fact people thought they were paying to see a different fight?

A different fight? You mean like Haye vs Wladimer?



Bilbo those seats were already sold for the Wladimer vs Haye fight, they didn't go on sale the day the Chagaev fight was signed. Just because all 61'000 didn't ask for a refund doesn't mean they bought tickets anticipating Haye getting replaced.

There will always be reasons to knock him for some of you. But the facts are that he took on a difficult opponent, a world champ and world number 3, at three weeks notice and completely dominated him in front of a record crowd.

If it was a flyweight taking on a fellow world champ at three weeks notice and winning in that manner he'd be leaping into the top 3 p4p, with Donaire probably being promoted to number 2

@Adam, if you wern't talking about this performance why slate him. You are basically admitting he fought a good fight so what more does he have to do?

Because he fights far too safely against inferior opposition
I never said that he didn't box smartly or win cleanly Bilbo... that is besides the obvious topic at hand.

[AdamGB]

HBO didn't even want to buy the fight. If you are the representative of the Heavyweight division and you have to fight on ESPN classic then that should say something. AS much as they've been on Wlad's nuts lately they don't even want to televise the fight.

Apparently 61,000 people were more than willing to watch the fight

Come on Lyle... which fight was that? It's easy to pull a fight from PPV... it's a lot harder to refund tickets/flights/hotel rooms/time off work.

[generalbulldog]

I think the klitschko brothers gets grief because they are not American where the hype machine would be in full mode.

Let's take this for example, someone here posted in some other thread that Mike Tyson fought in a great heavweight division in his prime and was dominant. Really? Trevor Berbick? Pinklon Thomas? Bonecrusher Smith?
An over the hill Larry Holmes? An blownup light Heavy in Spinks? Razor Ruddock? Buster Douglas? Come on!

So what's wrong with the brothers being so dominant when this division isn't anywhere worse than Mike Tyson's day? They racked up KOs like crazy but they are considered to be boring, they don't take risks, etc.

[JazMerkin]

I do think that at times Wlad fights too negatively against guys he should be more open against & with his size advantage there isn't an excuse. However, Chagaev is not one of those guys, and Wlad's performance deserves praise, he pulled a shutout against a clever technical fighter.

One thing though, comparing him to PBF, RJJ & B-Hop is dumb, because those guys have all fought in divisions where they're smaller than the opposition & in the divs where they were well-sized, SFW & LW for PBF, MW & SMW for B-Hop & RJJ, they all fought fairly openly & generally looked good when possible. It's only against bigger guys or as age has slowed them that they could be said to have fought 'negatively', whilst Wlad has too often fought negatively against guys he could have beaten in style. As I say though, last night whilst it was a bit dull, was an excellent performance given Chagaev's ability.

[Majesty]

I think the klitschko brothers gets grief because they are not American where the hype machine would be in full mode.

Let's take this for example, someone here posted in some other thread that Mike Tyson fought in a great heavweight division in his prime and was dominant. Really? Trevor Berbick? Pinklon Thomas? Bonecrusher Smith?
An over the hill Larry Holmes? An blownup light Heavy in Spinks? Razor Ruddock? Buster Douglas? Come on!

So what's wrong with the brothers being so dominant when this division isn't anywhere worse than Mike Tyson's day? They racked up KOs like crazy but they are considered to be boring, they don't take risks, etc.

because Mike Tyson didn't fight to the level of his opposition and carry people that were inferior to him, he knocked them out, he didn't fight like he was at a disadvantage.

[generalbulldog]

I think the klitschko brothers gets grief because they are not American where the hype machine would be in full mode.

Let's take this for example, someone here posted in some other thread that Mike Tyson fought in a great heavweight division in his prime and was dominant. Really? Trevor Berbick? Pinklon Thomas? Bonecrusher Smith?
An over the hill Larry Holmes? An blownup light Heavy in Spinks? Razor Ruddock? Buster Douglas? Come on!

So what's wrong with the brothers being so dominant when this division isn't anywhere worse than Mike Tyson's day? They racked up KOs like crazy but they are considered to be boring, they don't take risks, etc.

because Mike Tyson didn't fight to the level of his opposition and carry people that were inferior to him, he knocked them out, he didn't fight like he was at a disadvantage.

You're cherry picking man. The 2 brothers have been knocking guys out left and right in the heavyweight division. They get the job done and get the ko's. But you have people here bitching about Wlads last fight even though it was a KO in the 2nd round.

[Kev]

I think the klitschko brothers gets grief because they are not American where the hype machine would be in full mode.

Let's take this for example, someone here posted in some other thread that Mike Tyson fought in a great heavweight division in his prime and was dominant. Really? Trevor Berbick? Pinklon Thomas? Bonecrusher Smith?
An over the hill Larry Holmes? An blownup light Heavy in Spinks? Razor Ruddock? Buster Douglas? Come on!

So what's wrong with the brothers being so dominant when this division isn't anywhere worse than Mike Tyson's day? They racked up KOs like crazy but they are considered to be boring, they don't take risks, etc.

because Mike Tyson didn't fight to the level of his opposition and carry people that were inferior to him, he knocked them out, he didn't fight like he was at a disadvantage.

Let me ask you a question Majesty. Could Tyson have won all those fights any other way? Could he have been more cautious and kept at a distance and boxed his way to victory over guys like Holmes, Spinks, Ruddock etc?

Personally I think the way he fought was the least risky way for him to fight. He was small for a heavyweight but had exceptional speed head movement and ferocious power, all that spells get inside and wreck them.

If he would have fought any other way he'd not be playing to his strengths and would have been at a disadvantage. His style wasn't so much because of greater bravery and willingness to risk but rather that was how he needed to fight to win.

Klitschko has absolutely no reason to change his style. When he was crowd friendly he experienced being knocked out not once but three times.

He's a dominant world champ now aiming at unifying all the belts (apart from Vitali but I imagine he will vacate to let him win it eventually), he's a legend in Europe and earns millions every fight.

Why in the world would he risk that?

I can remember Tysons era and everyone at the time said it was a weak era. Even the era of Holyfield and Lewis was criticised at the time.

Boxing fans and the media are insistent on always harkening back to the glory days of Ali, Foreman, Frazier etc and therefore there will never ever be a decent heavyweight era again.

In reality its not that bad.

Wlad and Vitali are two of the most dominant heavyweight champs in history and would be tough for any champions from any era. Guys like Haye and Arreola provide KO excitement and brutal slugfests and there are some very talented technical fighters out there like Povetkin, Chambers, Solis etc who get no credit at heavyweight because they don't have the much heralded power but would be considered very solid fighters indeed in any other weight class.

The heavyweight division really isn't that bad at all. It's not so much the heavyweights that suck as just the AMERICAN heavyweights and because the world revolves around America its seen as a dearth of talent everywehere.

The fact is in Europe the heavyweight scene has probably never been better, even in the UK now our domestic heavyweight scene is probably our most lively division with Fury, Rogan, Sexton, Chisora, Pryce and the old guard of Williams, Harrison and Skelton. Fair enough no world beaters there but certainly more domestic talent than we've had in years where it was only ever Lewis, Bruno, Mason, Akinwande, Bent, Hide and Gammer who were any good over about a 15 year span.

The heavyweight scene is lively throughout the rest of the world, its just that most of the top fighters are technical rather than explosive knockout artists.

The heavyweight divsion is so unfairly treated though as unless there is a destroyer like Tyson (and he was a complete one of a kind) or and Ali (again the greatest ever) everyone will say its just shit.

No other division gets the same treatment. People don't lament the welterweight scene because there is no prime Ray Robinson there, the middleweight division isn't shit because we have no Hagler or Monzon but the heavyweight division always gets derided because the next Tyson, Foreman or Ali hasn't shown up yet.

[Majesty]

I think the klitschko brothers gets grief because they are not American where the hype machine would be in full mode.

Let's take this for example, someone here posted in some other thread that Mike Tyson fought in a great heavweight division in his prime and was dominant. Really? Trevor Berbick? Pinklon Thomas? Bonecrusher Smith?
An over the hill Larry Holmes? An blownup light Heavy in Spinks? Razor Ruddock? Buster Douglas? Come on!

So what's wrong with the brothers being so dominant when this division isn't anywhere worse than Mike Tyson's day? They racked up KOs like crazy but they are considered to be boring, they don't take risks, etc.

because Mike Tyson didn't fight to the level of his opposition and carry people that were inferior to him, he knocked them out, he didn't fight like he was at a disadvantage.

Let me ask you a question Majesty. Could Tyson have won all those fights any other way? Could he have been more cautious and kept at a distance and boxed his way to victory over guys like Holmes, Spinks, Ruddock etc?

Personally I think the way he fought was the least risky way for him to fight. He was small for a heavyweight but had exceptional speed head movement and ferocious power, all that spells get inside and wreck them.

If he would have fought any other way he'd not be playing to his strengths and would have been at a disadvantage. His style wasn't so much because of greater bravery and willingness to risk but rather that was how he needed to fight to win.

Klitschko has absolutely no reason to change his style. When he was crowd friendly he experienced being knocked out not once but three times.

He's a dominant world champ now aiming at unifying all the belts (apart from Vitali but I imagine he will vacate to let him win it eventually), he's a legend in Europe and earns millions every fight.

Why in the world would he risk that?

I can remember Tysons era and everyone at the time said it was a weak era. Even the era of Holyfield and Lewis was criticised at the time.

Boxing fans and the media are insistent on always harkening back to the glory days of Ali, Foreman, Frazier etc and therefore there will never ever be a decent heavyweight era again.

In reality its not that bad.

Wlad and Vitali are two of the most dominant heavyweight champs in history and would be tough for any champions from any era. Guys like Haye and Arreola provide KO excitement and brutal slugfests and there are some very talented technical fighters out there like Povetkin, Chambers, Solis etc who get no credit at heavyweight because they don't have the much heralded power but would be considered very solid fighters indeed in any other weight class.

The heavyweight division really isn't that bad at all. It's not so much the heavyweights that suck as just the AMERICAN heavyweights and because the world revolves around America its seen as a dearth of talent everywehere.

The fact is in Europe the heavyweight scene has probably never been better, even in the UK now our domestic heavyweight scene is probably our most lively division with Fury, Rogan, Sexton, Chisora, Pryce and the old guard of Williams, Harrison and Skelton. Fair enough no world beaters there but certainly more domestic talent than we've had in years where it was only ever Lewis, Bruno, Mason, Akinwande, Bent, Hide and Gammer who were any good over about a 15 year span.

The heavyweight scene is lively throughout the rest of the world, its just that most of the top fighters are technical rather than explosive knockout artists.

The heavyweight divsion is so unfairly treated though as unless there is a destroyer like Tyson (and he was a complete one of a kind) or and Ali (again the greatest ever) everyone will say its just shit.

No other division gets the same treatment. People don't lament the welterweight scene because there is no prime Ray Robinson there, the middleweight division isn't shit because we have no Hagler or Monzon but the heavyweight division always gets derided because the next Tyson, Foreman or Ali hasn't shown up yet.

Bilbo he wasn't knocked out because he was trying to be exciting.

If all you said was true then that would mean that he's still the limited fighter he was all those years ago when he got knocked out. If he was that same fighter he'd have been stopped by Peter.

He lost to Sanders because he didn't know how to hold and hadn't dealt with it. He lost to Brewster because he shot his load too early. If he was still the same fighter that went down whenever he faced adversity then Peter would have stopped him. You won't convince me that if he doesnt only jab jab jab and right hand that he is gonna get knocked out. He can afford to throw more and he can afford to overwhelm his opposition a lot faster then he does he has EVERY advantage over them yet he fights like he is the fighter that should be scared and not the other way around. Don't try to defend his lack of effort in pressing a fight and ending it sooner and with his range power and speed he would be blasting these guys out in 3 rounds, if anything he risks more by letting them stay in the fight so long rather then getting them out of there.

But if you think he hasn't improved at all as a fighter and is still the fighter that got knocked out all those times ago then feel free to believe that he can only afford to jab grab and right hand to win fights and will get knocked out otherwise. I on the other hand know he is 10 times better the fighter yet he doesn't fight like it at all and thats why its so frustrating watching him. If Mayweather had fought cautiously against Gatti nad only jabbed and ran away he'd get holy hell for it because they'd say he had an opponent in Gatti that he could have torn apart given his skills and no one would be defending him. Floyd didnt do that, he went in and demolished Gatti. Wladimer is the same way if he is in there with someone he should demolish and he doesnt even do that and underperformes he deserves the same flack. People ALWAYS ALWAYS give a fighter hell and love to say that "they had an opponent in there to look spectacular against and they didn't do a damn thing" EVERY fighter gets flack for that so why is Wladimer supposed to be exempt? Andre Dirrel ran an entire fight against Curtis Stevens and people said he was a miss prospect, overhyped, and won't go anywhere, HBO didnt wanna air his fights anymore and he got a lot of hate. But if Wladimer does it the excuse is "Why hate him for winning" its an annoying double standard. Its not so much a hate for Wladimer its the knowledge that you KNOW he can do much more and be twice as devastating and effective yet he doesn't use it. You can say "he doesnt have to" but why shouldn't he? Why shouldn't He show all he can do and blast people out? Why should he wait till an opponent has him in trouble to do other things? thats a pretty stupid way of thinking in my opinion.

"I have all the punches in the world but im gonna wait till im hurt to reveal them all"

his mentality should be

"I have all the punches in the world, im gonna get this guy out of there with them because I can and there's nothing he can do."

[Hunter]

Why do people bring up the fact that Wlad is bigger than his opponents??, wasnt there 6'5" fighters when Mike Tyson was champ or Ali? Let me drop a bombshell on you people, size doesnt mean everything or Valuev would be the best fighter in the world.....

[CFH]

Why do people bring up the fact that Wlad is bigger than his opponents??, wasnt there 6'5" fighters when Mike Tyson was champ or Ali? Let me drop a bombshell on you people, size doesnt mean everything or Valuev would be the best fighter in the world.....

Are you saying Valuev isn't the best fighter in the world?

You're banned.