Ratings discussions, ideas, concerns etc

[Galaxy]

As Spicoli suggested I think we should use this thread for discussions on any ideas or concerns that may come up & keep the rating thread just for the ratings...

Here's one to start us off:

I think that if a ranked fighter fights at another weight they should not automatically be ranked in the pool there. If they beat someone already in the pool then it should happen or if it is a credible opponent, because the pools are going to start overflowing. e.g. Mario Santiago's last fight was at 130 but not against a quality opponent & I feel he is not ready to move up yet anyway

[JazMerkin]

I personally feel that guys doing the bare minimum to stay there, like Judah, should not stay ranked over guys who've beaten a better quality of opponent.

I personally feel that if Mayweather beats Marquez at the least he should be ranked ahead of Judah & maybe the winner of Rodriguez/Hlatshwayo.

I also feel him & Pacquiao being higher is more likely to bring us a champ as they're the only 2 people wanna fight.

Maybe we introduce the Pound For Pound list in somewhere, where beating a guy voted in the Top 10 outside of his weightclass is worth a little extra or something.

Another thing, is maybe a guy who hasn't registered a win in 12months+ can be overtaken by the fighter directly below him. 2 years without win & being dropped is fair, but if its one of those guys who never bothers to fight than it will be difficult bringing in new blood.

Good idea for a thread Galaxy

[Galaxy]

I personally feel that guys doing the bare minimum to stay there, like Judah, should not stay ranked over guys who've beaten a better quality of opponent.

I personally feel that if Mayweather beats Marquez at the least he should be ranked ahead of Judah & maybe the winner of Rodriguez/Hlatshwayo.

I also feel him & Pacquiao being higher is more likely to bring us a champ as they're the only 2 people wanna fight.

Maybe we introduce the Pound For Pound list in somewhere, where beating a guy voted in the Top 10 outside of his weightclass is worth a little extra or something.

Another thing, is maybe a guy who hasn't registered a win in 12months+ can be overtaken by the fighter directly below him. 2 years without win & being dropped is fair, but if its one of those guys who never bothers to fight than it will be difficult bringing in new blood.

Good idea for a thread Galaxy

I see what your saying & I kinda agree but as I said on another thread it should be based on what they have done at that weight. Mayweather has been out for nearly 2 years & Marquez has never fought there before so there achievements at that weight are arguably less.

With killers new rule where we could vote fighters down a spot we can combat guys taking the easy road by demoting them a spot.

I sort of like your idea of beating a p4p fighter being worth more but it could get a little sketchy. We recently had Agbeko defeat Darchinyan, does that then mean Agbeko should advance further at 118 by beating a man who had never fought at that weight before? Even though he was a p4p ranked fighter?

Maybe if you beat a p4p guy you advance 2 spots, e.g. Mayweather defeats Marquez so he would enter at 9th.

I'm not to fussed about those 2 being higher because I feel for a champ to be crowed at 147 they have to go through Mosley!

As to your second point I think that's what killer is aiming for by being able to demote fighters once per month, if that fighter is ranked 10th we could vote to drop him to the pool? Freeing up a vacancy for new blood...

[JazMerkin]

I personally feel that guys doing the bare minimum to stay there, like Judah, should not stay ranked over guys who've beaten a better quality of opponent.

I personally feel that if Mayweather beats Marquez at the least he should be ranked ahead of Judah & maybe the winner of Rodriguez/Hlatshwayo.

I also feel him & Pacquiao being higher is more likely to bring us a champ as they're the only 2 people wanna fight.

Maybe we introduce the Pound For Pound list in somewhere, where beating a guy voted in the Top 10 outside of his weightclass is worth a little extra or something.

Another thing, is maybe a guy who hasn't registered a win in 12months+ can be overtaken by the fighter directly below him. 2 years without win & being dropped is fair, but if its one of those guys who never bothers to fight than it will be difficult bringing in new blood.

Good idea for a thread Galaxy

I see what your saying & I kinda agree but as I said on another thread it should be based on what they have done at that weight. Mayweather has been out for nearly 2 years & Marquez has never fought there before so there achievements at that weight are arguably less.

With killers new rule where we could vote fighters down a spot we can combat guys taking the easy road by demoting them a spot.

I sort of like your idea of beating a p4p fighter being worth more but it could get a little sketchy. We recently had Agbeko defeat Darchinyan, does that then mean Agbeko should advance further at 118 by beating a man who had never fought at that weight before? Even though he was a p4p ranked fighter?

Maybe if you beat a p4p guy you advance 2 spots, e.g. Mayweather defeats Marquez so he would enter at 9th.

I'm not to fussed about those 2 being higher because I feel for a champ to be crowed at 147 they have to go through Mosley!

As to your second point I think that's what killer is aiming for by being able to demote fighters once per month, if that fighter is ranked 10th we could vote to drop him to the pool? Freeing up a vacancy for new blood...

How about this, fighters in the Pound For Pound list ranked from #1-5 are worth a maximum 2 place jump on a vote, whilst 6-10 are a max 1 place jump.

So Agbeko beating Darchinyan means we create a vote where we have the option of keeping him where he is or taking 3rd from Yonnhy Perez?

Should Mayweather beat Marquez, rather than just take the vacant 10th spot, he could come in at 8th, hence a jump of 2 places.

I agree anyone has to go through Mosley, but particularly that division, we have our best chance of crowning a champ if PBF & Pac are higher as only they & Berto are fighters who Mosley seems interested in fighting.

[Spicoli]

Have to throw in my 2 cents and by no means am I trying to be a downer and disrespect the hard work and dedication you guys have put in but I'm not big on meshing the p4p and our official rankings together.

p4p can be veeeery subjective and while it credits some of the more high profile fighters it lacks in solidity....tends to bend in the wind I believe.Ive always thought it (all p4p lists) a bit askew and defined by ones preferences and their really is no solid definition.I'm still scratching my head at guys like Mayorga jumping to the Rings p4p ratings.He may have been worthy as top of division by by NO means was he one of 'The best fighters in the world'.Just something that has stuck with me.The ranking should be solid,just don't want to see it turn into a numbers game and get all convoluted.

Good thread Galaxy.One thing I was aiming for was a way to consolidate all of these polls and threads.Seems we may get lost in 'paperwork'.Limit the number of poll threads as to keep them tight knit with centered focus.At the rate we are going I cannot help but think that some members will get lost in wash of pages and we may not see resolved voting.May just focus on what directly interest us and end up having many unresolved issues,polls,votes,etc.Again....the work and effort you guys have done is to be commended and is much appreciated,maybe I just need the AM coffee

[JazMerkin]

Have to throw in my 2 cents and by no means am I trying to be a downer and disrespect the hard work and dedication you guys have put in but I'm not big on meshing the p4p and our official rankings together.

p4p can be veeeery subjective and while it credits some of the more high profile fighters it lacks in solidity....tends to bend in the wind I believe.Ive always thought it (all p4p lists) a bit askew and defined by ones preferences and their really is no solid definition.I'm still scratching my head at guys like Mayorga jumping to the Rings p4p ratings.He may have been worthy as top of division by by NO means was he one of 'The best fighters in the world'.Just something that has stuck with me.The ranking should be solid,just don't want to see it turn into a numbers game and get all convoluted.

Good thread Galaxy.One thing I was aiming for was a way to consolidate all of these polls and threads.Seems we may get lost in 'paperwork'.Limit the number of poll threads as to keep them tight knit with centered focus.At the rate we are going I cannot help but think that some members will get lost in wash of pages and we may not see resolved voting.May just focus on what directly interest us and end up having many unresolved issues,polls,votes,etc.Again....the work and effort you guys have done is to be commended and is much appreciated,maybe I just need the AM coffee

That's why I'm suggesting only using it as a voting option. So let's use it the Darchinyan/Agbeko fight as an example. We put up a poll with options, should Agbeko stay where he is or should he jump one spot taking Perez' spot in 3rd. I can definitely understand your concerns, as my main worry with the P4P list is how at times it seems like a popularity contest, with guys like Pavlik & Hatton particularly doing far better than their work suggests. So what I'm suggesting is using it as a voting method. Most of us here are pretty objective & knowledgeable about the sport & different divisions, so I don't think it would end up devaluing it. So I'm not suggesting that the P4P list means automatic jumps, just that it allows the committee to vote on it slightly differently if you get my drift.

[Violent Demise]

I personally feel that guys doing the bare minimum to stay there, like Judah, should not stay ranked over guys who've beaten a better quality of opponent.

I personally feel that if Mayweather beats Marquez at the least he should be ranked ahead of Judah & maybe the winner of Rodriguez/Hlatshwayo.

I also feel him & Pacquiao being higher is more likely to bring us a champ as they're the only 2 people wanna fight.

Maybe we introduce the Pound For Pound list in somewhere, where beating a guy voted in the Top 10 outside of his weightclass is worth a little extra or something.

Another thing, is maybe a guy who hasn't registered a win in 12months+ can be overtaken by the fighter directly below him. 2 years without win & being dropped is fair, but if its one of those guys who never bothers to fight than it will be difficult bringing in new blood.

Good idea for a thread Galaxy

I see what your saying & I kinda agree but as I said on another thread it should be based on what they have done at that weight. Mayweather has been out for nearly 2 years & Marquez has never fought there before so there achievements at that weight are arguably less.

With killers new rule where we could vote fighters down a spot we can combat guys taking the easy road by demoting them a spot.

I sort of like your idea of beating a p4p fighter being worth more but it could get a little sketchy. We recently had Agbeko defeat Darchinyan, does that then mean Agbeko should advance further at 118 by beating a man who had never fought at that weight before? Even though he was a p4p ranked fighter?

Maybe if you beat a p4p guy you advance 2 spots, e.g. Mayweather defeats Marquez so he would enter at 9th.

I'm not to fussed about those 2 being higher because I feel for a champ to be crowed at 147 they have to go through Mosley!

As to your second point I think that's what killer is aiming for by being able to demote fighters once per month, if that fighter is ranked 10th we could vote to drop him to the pool? Freeing up a vacancy for new blood...

How about this, fighters in the Pound For Pound list ranked from #1-5 are worth a maximum 2 place jump on a vote, whilst 6-10 are a max 1 place jump.

So Agbeko beating Darchinyan means we create a vote where we have the option of keeping him where he is or taking 3rd from Yonnhy Perez?

Should Mayweather beat Marquez, rather than just take the vacant 10th spot, he could come in at 8th, hence a jump of 2 places.

I agree anyone has to go through Mosley, but particularly that division, we have our best chance of crowning a champ if PBF & Pac are higher as only they & Berto are fighters who Mosley seems interested in fighting.

Mayweather's case I think is a little different. No one really believed he was done fighting. And he's set to fight the number 2 (really should be 1) ranked fighter, I think a case should be made about him getting his former spot back with a win over Marquez

[Galaxy]

Nah, Mayweather's been out for over a year so he should fight his way back in imo

[Galaxy]

As I said in an earlier post, mixing the p4p with our ratings could get sketchy. Spicoli has put through some good points, & Jaz yourself said it seems like a popularity contest. Whose p4p are we going to use? The Ring? Ours? Joe Blogs?

My boy Calderon ain't even in The Rings top 10.

Maybe we put it to a vote to see what members think of the idea, but at this point I'd have to vote against it.


I also see what Spicoli is saying about having to many threads, I have tried to just keep the threads to that weeks results so as not to get to far ahead of ourselves.

We could try putting all the votes for the week in one thread with multiple choices, with members just posting in the thread for any additions for the mods to add so they can vote on them too, but you can only have so many options on the polls. Maybe a couple of threads for the week with multiple selections?

I'm not very good at this computer stuff so I'm not really sure what we can & cannot do, if we could have a thread a week with multiple polls it would be perfect...

[JazMerkin]

As I said in an earlier post, mixing the p4p with our ratings could get sketchy. Spicoli has put through some good points, & Jaz yourself said it seems like a popularity contest. Whose p4p are we going to use? The Ring? Ours? Joe Blogs?

My boy Calderon ain't even in The Rings top 10.

Maybe we put it to a vote to see what members think of the idea, but at this point I'd have to vote against it.


I also see what Spicoli is saying about having to many threads, I have tried to just keep the threads to that weeks results so as not to get to far ahead of ourselves.

We could try putting all the votes for the week in one thread with multiple choices, with members just posting in the thread for any additions for the mods to add so they can vote on them too, but you can only have so many options on the polls. Maybe a couple of threads for the week with multiple selections?

I'm not very good at this computer stuff so I'm not really sure what we can & cannot do, if we could have a thread a week with multiple polls it would be perfect...

I propose using our own Pound For Pound rankings, which I think are in all honesty better than the Ring's at the moment. I'm also not saying that it definitely mean someone jumps 1-2 places, only that it gives another option after a fight. For example, it offers us Agbeko going up to 3rd, which I would personally vote against. But that's my point, it gives us the options to vote on an issue a bit more.

[Galaxy]

As I said in an earlier post, mixing the p4p with our ratings could get sketchy. Spicoli has put through some good points, & Jaz yourself said it seems like a popularity contest. Whose p4p are we going to use? The Ring? Ours? Joe Blogs?

My boy Calderon ain't even in The Rings top 10.

Maybe we put it to a vote to see what members think of the idea, but at this point I'd have to vote against it.


I also see what Spicoli is saying about having to many threads, I have tried to just keep the threads to that weeks results so as not to get to far ahead of ourselves.

We could try putting all the votes for the week in one thread with multiple choices, with members just posting in the thread for any additions for the mods to add so they can vote on them too, but you can only have so many options on the polls. Maybe a couple of threads for the week with multiple selections?

I'm not very good at this computer stuff so I'm not really sure what we can & cannot do, if we could have a thread a week with multiple polls it would be perfect...

I propose using our own Pound For Pound rankings, which I think are in all honesty better than the Ring's at the moment. I'm also not saying that it definitely mean someone jumps 1-2 places, only that it gives another option after a fight. For example, it offers us Agbeko going up to 3rd, which I would personally vote against. But that's my point, it gives us the options to vote on an issue a bit more.

Well put up a poll Ace & see what the members think, with our p4p though you don't know how accurate it is either as there could be users with multiple accounts or as you said voting on popularity. I remember seeing VD having Pacquiao way down the 1st time around (5th I think).

I'm just saying there's to much room for abuse. I do sorta like the idea as I agree beating an elite guy should be worth more & it maybe a good idea to have the option (members can over rule it with a vote if they disagree) but p4p is purely mythical & our divisional ratings should be based on whats done at that weight against fighters who have achievements at that weight. Floyd was criticized for fighting the smaller Hatton (who was p4p by The Ring entering), & now again for fighting Marquez