Champions chasing Challengers

[Master]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

[Dia bando]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

For starters the middle weight division is a bit weak at the moment,going back in time Hagler went through all comers he had his super-fights and beat all the contenders.
Mind you the guy was fearsome,at his moment in time the middle weights was a very strong division
mind you I would say Sergio is no Hagler. You may think I'm being harsh on him and you can only
beat whose about at the time.
May be I was spoiled in the 80's with all them great fighters,I feel sometimes perhaps I may be to
critical of some of today's fighters.Remember if you eat T bone steaks,then you have burger I no what
I prefer you can have a good burger, but a T bone is in a diff rent class my friends.

[TitoFan]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

[DavilaJones]

Middleweight is weak? We got a lot of fresh talent here, granted not all of them been really tested but it is not a division void of talent. As for champs chasing challangers Jack Johnson comes to mind.

[Master]

Middleweight is weak? We got a lot of fresh talent here, granted not all of them been really tested but it is not a division void of talent. As for champs chasing challangers Jack Johnson comes to mind.

Johnson was chasing Hart for the title but cannot remember him chasing anyone else.

[DavilaJones]

I believe you are correct, I think I was thinking of Johnson wanting to fight John L Sullivan but that's not a champ going after a challanger.

[Master]

I believe you are correct, I think I was thinking of Johnson wanting to fight John L Sullivan but that's not a champ going after a challanger.

Not to sound like a boxing geek, but John L Sullivan was years before Jack Johnson.

The ones I could offer which are a bit dubious, could be :-
Hagler v Leonard
Holyfield v Tyson
Vitali v Haye

[ruthless rocco]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

not so sure about your assessment of the two fighters...

martinez 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 6-2-3. he won on Points in a 8 round bout.
chavez jr's 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 21-6-2. he won by 4th round KO.

martinez 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 6-0-1. martinez won UD/8.
chavez jr's 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 21-7-3 he won UD/10

martinez 40th fight was against a guy with a 1-7-2 record. he won KO5/8.
chavez junior's 40th opponent was 23-0-0. he won by UD/10

not sure why everyone complains about chavez junior's padded record when its clearly martinez who's consistently faced bunk opposition.

Also: martinez has fought 6 more fights than chavez jr... so if you were to erase the last 6 fights from martinez record; you'd find his most recent fight to have been a Draw against cintron. if you examine his record before that you'd have to agree that he's fought a bunch of nobodies.

[Spicoli]

Jones Jr comes to mind. Think he got a bit bored for a while there as he was calling out Tito a couple of times. Remember Mark Johnson yelling for Tapia endlessly while and after Tapia vacated. He jumped a division, so Johnson jumped a division etc. Has to be tons of lesser known champs who clamored to get any type of name in defense.

[DavilaJones]

this is where it gets tricky, you see you can fight someone with a record of 30:30 like Emmanual Augustus or you can fight someone like a previously undefeated Rico Ramos. The number of wins and losses on a record at a glance are not always indicative as to the quality of the opposition.

i.e you can pad your record fighting someone with a padded record. Now I am not suggesting that Chavez jr. is doing that. I'm merely stating that the record of opponents at a first glance doesn't tell the full story.

[TitoFan]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

not so sure about your assessment of the two fighters...

martinez 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 6-2-3. he won on Points in a 8 round bout.
chavez jr's 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 21-6-2. he won by 4th round KO.

martinez 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 6-0-1. martinez won UD/8.
chavez jr's 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 21-7-3 he won UD/10

martinez 40th fight was against a guy with a 1-7-2 record. he won KO5/8.
chavez junior's 40th opponent was 23-0-0. he won by UD/10

not sure why everyone complains about chavez junior's padded record when its clearly martinez who's consistently faced bunk opposition.

Also: martinez has fought 6 more fights than chavez jr... so if you were to erase the last 6 fights from martinez record; you'd find his most recent fight to have been a Draw against cintron. if you examine his record before that you'd have to agree that he's fought a bunch of nobodies.

Pretty good job handpicking "milestone" fights to show an "advantage" toward JCC Jr.




To be honest, Sergio's record IS littered with bums with losing records. No disputing that. A lot of those were in his native Argentina, where he obviously fattened his record also. HOWEVER..... there's no defending Baby Chavez.

Regardless of the numbers, Sergio has fought the likes of: Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, Kermit Cintron, Antonio Margarito. Who the hell has "The Coddled One" fought? John Duddy, Manfredo Jr., Rubio. And his only TKO as of late came against the "mighty" Manfredo Jr., he of the feather fists.

Give me a frigging break here. Chavez has never fought a dangerous opponent. It's all part of the master plan by his overbearing daddy, and the scumbag Jose Sulaiman, in an effort to get him to the 100-victory milestone, just like his daddy.

Who, by the way, did his OWN fattening of his OWN record. In the past I posted some pretty telling statistics where "Daddy" fought his first 40+ fights against fighters with a cummulative LOSING RECORD! That's pretty damn hard to do. You gotta fight a lot of 0-10 bums for that to happen. Yeah... he later became a great fighter and fought great opposition. But fact of the matter is he reached 100 wins because the first 45 or so fights were against worthless bums, and ALL of them in Mexico.

So you can't blame the guy for wanting his coddled son to follow in his carefully chosen footsteps. The chances of Junior facing a live and dangerous opponent any time soon are about as great as the chances of my winning the lottery..... and I don't even play the lottery.

[ruthless rocco]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

not so sure about your assessment of the two fighters...

martinez 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 6-2-3. he won on Points in a 8 round bout.
chavez jr's 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 21-6-2. he won by 4th round KO.

martinez 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 6-0-1. martinez won UD/8.
chavez jr's 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 21-7-3 he won UD/10

martinez 40th fight was against a guy with a 1-7-2 record. he won KO5/8.
chavez junior's 40th opponent was 23-0-0. he won by UD/10

not sure why everyone complains about chavez junior's padded record when its clearly martinez who's consistently faced bunk opposition.

Also: martinez has fought 6 more fights than chavez jr... so if you were to erase the last 6 fights from martinez record; you'd find his most recent fight to have been a Draw against cintron. if you examine his record before that you'd have to agree that he's fought a bunch of nobodies.

Pretty good job handpicking "milestone" fights to show an "advantage" toward JCC Jr.




To be honest, Sergio's record IS littered with bums with losing records. No disputing that. A lot of those were in his native Argentina, where he obviously fattened his record also. HOWEVER..... there's no defending Baby Chavez.

Regardless of the numbers, Sergio has fought the likes of: Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, Kermit Cintron, Antonio Margarito. Who the hell has "The Coddled One" fought? John Duddy, Manfredo Jr., Rubio. And his only TKO as of late came against the "mighty" Manfredo Jr., he of the feather fists.

Give me a frigging break here. Chavez has never fought a dangerous opponent. It's all part of the master plan by his overbearing daddy, and the scumbag Jose Sulaiman, in an effort to get him to the 100-victory milestone, just like his daddy.

Who, by the way, did his OWN fattening of his OWN record. In the past I posted some pretty telling statistics where "Daddy" fought his first 40+ fights against fighters with a cummulative LOSING RECORD! That's pretty damn hard to do. You gotta fight a lot of 0-10 bums for that to happen. Yeah... he later became a great fighter and fought great opposition. But fact of the matter is he reached 100 wins because the first 45 or so fights were against worthless bums, and ALL of them in Mexico.

So you can't blame the guy for wanting his coddled son to follow in his carefully chosen footsteps. The chances of Junior facing a live and dangerous opponent any time soon are about as great as the chances of my winning the lottery..... and I don't even play the lottery.

what you typed there is all very nice, but i hadn't reviewed the performance of the two fighters before writing the post. which is what you seem to suggest in the bold part of your text above.

i figured a fighter would want a showcase fight for his 20th, 30th and 40th fights. it just so happens that martinez chose to fight fighters with poor or losing records, whereas chavez jr. chose to face guys with solid winning records...

i addressed the issue of martinez having 6 more fights than chavez jr... if you were to ignore martinez last 6 fights you'd see he hadn't faced any credible opposition to that point either.

also, i certainly didn't have a say in "handpicking" the fighters that the two champions chose to fight. altho, i'm flattered that you'd attribute me such "pull". these are simple observations that suggest a trend.

[Rantcatrat]

I don't have any good examples off the top of my head. I'm sure they're out there though. I know Andre Ward has somewhat campaigned for a fight with Sergio Martinez at 168 for his belts, but it's not to the same extent.

The truth is Martinez is chasing Chavez Jr. because he is the biggest pay day available, not because he is the biggest challenge available. Martinez earns more money taking a 40/60 split with Chavez Jr. than he earns taking a champion's split against Macklin. A win over Chavez Jr. also may gain Martinez entrance into the Mexican boxing fanbase, possibly boxing's strongest ethnic fanbase, which creates dividends in future fights.

Bottom line: a Chavez Jr. fight is all about money. It's the same reason Sergio called out Miguel Cotto and Floyd Mayweather. Around that weight class, the biggest potential money-making fights are Chavez Jr., Canelo, Floyd, Cotto and Manny. The only other fighter around that weight class that has good earning potential is Lucian Bute in Canada, and maybe Carl Froch in England. Therefore, a likely scenario I can see happening is Sergio Martinez beats Chavez Jr. in the fall and then moves up in weight in his final hurrah against the winner of Bute or Froch, where he probably loses, although I give him a decent shot against Froch.

[TitoFan]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

not so sure about your assessment of the two fighters...

martinez 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 6-2-3. he won on Points in a 8 round bout.
chavez jr's 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 21-6-2. he won by 4th round KO.

martinez 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 6-0-1. martinez won UD/8.
chavez jr's 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 21-7-3 he won UD/10

martinez 40th fight was against a guy with a 1-7-2 record. he won KO5/8.
chavez junior's 40th opponent was 23-0-0. he won by UD/10

not sure why everyone complains about chavez junior's padded record when its clearly martinez who's consistently faced bunk opposition.

Also: martinez has fought 6 more fights than chavez jr... so if you were to erase the last 6 fights from martinez record; you'd find his most recent fight to have been a Draw against cintron. if you examine his record before that you'd have to agree that he's fought a bunch of nobodies.

Pretty good job handpicking "milestone" fights to show an "advantage" toward JCC Jr.




To be honest, Sergio's record IS littered with bums with losing records. No disputing that. A lot of those were in his native Argentina, where he obviously fattened his record also. HOWEVER..... there's no defending Baby Chavez.

Regardless of the numbers, Sergio has fought the likes of: Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, Kermit Cintron, Antonio Margarito. Who the hell has "The Coddled One" fought? John Duddy, Manfredo Jr., Rubio. And his only TKO as of late came against the "mighty" Manfredo Jr., he of the feather fists.

Give me a frigging break here. Chavez has never fought a dangerous opponent. It's all part of the master plan by his overbearing daddy, and the scumbag Jose Sulaiman, in an effort to get him to the 100-victory milestone, just like his daddy.

Who, by the way, did his OWN fattening of his OWN record. In the past I posted some pretty telling statistics where "Daddy" fought his first 40+ fights against fighters with a cummulative LOSING RECORD! That's pretty damn hard to do. You gotta fight a lot of 0-10 bums for that to happen. Yeah... he later became a great fighter and fought great opposition. But fact of the matter is he reached 100 wins because the first 45 or so fights were against worthless bums, and ALL of them in Mexico.

So you can't blame the guy for wanting his coddled son to follow in his carefully chosen footsteps. The chances of Junior facing a live and dangerous opponent any time soon are about as great as the chances of my winning the lottery..... and I don't even play the lottery.

what you typed there is all very nice, but i hadn't reviewed the performance of the two fighters before writing the post. which is what you seem to suggest in the bold part of your text above.

i figured a fighter would want a showcase fight for his 20th, 30th and 40th fights. it just so happens that martinez chose to fight fighters with poor or losing records, whereas chavez jr. chose to face guys with solid winning records...

i addressed the issue of martinez having 6 more fights than chavez jr... if you were to ignore martinez last 6 fights you'd see he hadn't faced any credible opposition to that point either.

also, i certainly didn't have a say in "handpicking" the fighters that the two champions chose to fight. altho, i'm flattered that you'd attribute me such "pull". these are simple observations that suggest a trend.

One slight problem with your statement above (which I've bolded in red). Kermit Cintron was 7 fights ago.... and Margarito was way back in 2000. And frankly, either would've tore Junior a new asshole.

And while you may be right about these "milestone fights", (which when you think about it has little significance in the grand scheme of things), nothing in your post disputes the fact that Junior has never fought a dangerous opponent. And this has been strictly by design. Baby Chavez..... following in his father's footsteps.

Following daddy's script, though, it's about time Junior starts facing opposition worthy of his bloated 40+ and "0" record. Only difference is, however, Junior is a manufactured product..... and he'll NEVER get anywhere near 100 wins. NEVER.

[DavilaJones]

Hmm I swear I read somewhere when sullivan was asked why he wouldn't fight Johnson, he said he would never fight a Negro . Guess my memory is shoddy cause I checked and you're right Sullivan was an old fat man before Johnsons rise.