Lewis vs Rahman I & II

[Fenster]

I always liked LL too. I remember when I first got in to boxing in a big way and I was doing my paper round and reading all the sports pages after the first Holyfield fight. We never had sky or internet and stuff back then so had to wait to see the papers.

He doesn't get the credit he deserves now because the people judging him are still the people who may not have liked him just because they were Holyfiield/Tyson fans etc. In many years to come he will be considered a legend especially when the people see the names on his record.

One thing I'd like to say is that I would have liked to see a rematch with Vitali before retirement. People say that Lewis was unfit, overweight. Yes he was but he had been training for a fight (Johnson?) Klitschko took the fight at short notice, so he would not have been in tip top condition or as mentally prepared as he could have been. I always thought that was Lewis's plan. However funny that might sound but a lot of people had been calling for them to meet and I think Lewis intended to offer the fight to Klitschko after paying Johnson to pull out thus catching Klitschko not at his best.

Whatever. Lewis faced just about everyone he could and that KO of Rahman was pure class, the only thing that takes the shine off it is that he should have done it first time round.

Vitali was fighting Cedric Boswell on the undercard that night. He was fully prepared to fight.

If either had an advantage it was Vitali. As underdog, challenger and with a reputation as a "quitter" he had NOTHING to lose. Whereas Lewis hadn't fought in a year, had been contemplating retirement and basically fought to save the bill.

[Mctaggert]

What puts Lewis ahead of guys like Mike Tyson for me is that he came back in fights and rematches after taking a beating. Vitali was fucking Lewis up in the first two rounds and Lennox had the strength of character to dig deep and keep landing bombs.

I think that's what annoys a lot of anti Lewis types they would like to say that Lewis had no guts but that fight proved that he actually did. I also give full respect to Rachman for the first fight you can't take it way from him, he's a sad figure now though :-(

[Spicoli]

I agree. But this seems more like a "I like Lennox Lewis thread". What did you want to say about the 1st and 2nd Rahman fights?

Nothing other then what I said in the OP, Lewis got his ass handed to him in the 1st fight, but came back like a Champion in the 2nd.

FWIW, I wasn't always a fan of LL and this isn't a "I like Lennox Lewis thread", I just believe that he didn't get the credit he deserved as a HW Champion.

This is called, being knowledgable and objective!! I respect that

Lewis is someone i'd love to sit down with, have a few Red Stripes and talk about boxing, hell, i'd even buy the beer. Lennox is another one of those pugs who came from humble beginnings and mostly through their own initiative along with a big set of cojones became HW Champion of the World. Yes he could be an arrogant ass, but I think a lot of that was because he didn't get the respect he rightfully deserved.
Happy New Year LL, you did it your way.

You wanna sit down with Lennox Lewis and have a beer? What did you do for New years? Creosote a fence?
I wanna go on the lash with Ricardo Mayorga in a Nicaraguan brothel...

Hell yeah Mayorga shout out !

Lennox is the greatest heavyweight of all time, as far as I believe he could beat any heavyweight in any era, despite not having the very best era himself.

George Foreman agrees with me.

Foreman said that as a "in the heat of the moment" thing after he beat the ghost of Mike Tyson. A younger George Foreman would've smashed his jaw and put him down if they ever fought, ironically.

Yet a year later he literally ran into retirement from Vitali Klitschko.

I'm not too impressed with Lewis and his weak chin always puts him lower on the H2H rankings for me ... his accomplishments are good but not as good as some of the others like Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson etc. Lennox Lewis is the same guy who was out jabbed by an older Ray Mercer who he arguably lost too ... he even had trouble with lesser guys like Bruno.

He is a top 10 heavyweight without question though

I've never bought into the myth of Lewis weak chin. Of the ones you list all have the distinction of being on the canvas more than Lennox as do a Holyfield or even Mercer who are poster boys for iron chin. Its been known to happen at heavyweight.

Mercer was 28 and being called old before he even heard his first professional bell ring and was in top form for a run there. Gave Holyfield life and death. His jab was always underrated and that scrap was nip and tuck but no robbery or such.

[Mars_ax]

What puts Lewis ahead of guys like Mike Tyson for me is that he came back in fights and rematches after taking a beating. Vitali was fucking Lewis up in the first two rounds and Lennox had the strength of character to dig deep and keep landing bombs.

I think that's what annoys a lot of anti Lewis types they would like to say that Lewis had no guts but that fight proved that he actually did. I also give full respect to Rachman for the first fight you can't take it way from him, he's a sad figure now though :-(

Rahman landed a lucky shot on Lewis in their 1st fight, mainly because Lewis was clowning and got caught on the ropes. It was a hard, flush shot on the chin that would have knocked any HW out. Lewis's chin wasn't really that bad, and you certainly couldn't question the dude's heart if you watched the fight with Vitali. Plus, who the fuck has come even close to giving Vitali a beating like that since? Lewis was a great Champion, who deserves more credit than he gets.

BTW, I was never much of a Lewis fan, when he got KTFO by Rahman, I couldn't have been more pleased, i'm just giving credit where credit is due.

cheers

[Beanflicker]

I think Lennox has one of the most underrated chins in boxing history. People cite him being KTFO twice as proof he had a glass jaw... first off, Mccall (who hit like a freight train) caught him with a perfect shot that would have finished just about anyone. Same with Rahman, who caught Lennox flush with his back to the ropes. These are two guys with serious power. And like a great champ, he came back with two brutal, one-sided rematch wins.

[TysonBomb]

Lennox Lewis was one of my favorite fighters, nobody gave this muther-fucker anything, he took names kicked ass, and when he lost he came back like a Champion to settle the score. IMHO, one of the most underrated Heavyweight Champions, he fought everyone who was anyone.

Wouldnt go anywhere near his mandatory Chris Byrd

Lucky to get the decision against Mercer and was just as much to blame as Akinwande for holding and I think Akinwande even dropped him but it didnt get called?

Chris Byrd LMAO

Ray Mercer - a common myth! Watch the fight and score each round independantly - Lewis won fact

Akinwande - LMAO

Ross generally - LMAO

Another Big H beatdown. Send Ross to the burn unit.

Yeah, ouch...

Laugh all you want, Lewis dropped the IBF to fight Kirk Johnson () instead of Chris Byrd.

Lewis dropped/was stripped by the IBF because he was contemplating retirement. While he was doing this Don King in conjunction with the IBF were able to cash-in on a Holyfield-Byrd fight.

No TV company, promoter, fighter or fan ever gave a shit about Lewis-Byrd (hilarious). The WBC were threatening to strip him too because he was so inactive.

Lewis only came back for Johnson because it was a massive PPV double-header with Tyson to set up the rematch. Tyson pulled out, Johnson pulled out and Lewis ended up taking Vitali.

Tyson vs Lewis II was never made

Don King was preventing it so Lewis sued him

Tyson signed to fight Maskaev on the Lewis-Johnson undercard to set-up Lewis-Tyson II. But Tyson pulled out.

King was blamed for bribing Tyson and stuff. Lewis sued them both, for fucking up his original bill (which he fought Vitali on) and costing him millions by blowing the rematch.

I can't find anything on Lewis suing Tyson for that

As far as I know, Don King prevented the entire thing from ever transpiring... Tyson wanted a rematch and was the one to propose it and challenge Lewis (needed the big payday to get him out of debt) and Lewis certainly would like to fight Mike again (huge payday involved for him as well and probably to further "enhance" his legacy).

And lets not get carried away over Lewis' chin ... it was OK but certainly wasn't anything better than "OK." Fact is that he did get one shotted TWICE ... once in an exchange and the other when he was taunting his opponent. Yes he did "avenge" both losses in rematches but McCall was in no shape to fight when they fought for the second time ... he was literally taken out of rehab and was acting bizarre weeks leading up to the fight. He did beat Rahman but I can't give him too much credit for "beating" Oliver McCall. And those who like to bring this point up of him "avenging" his losses, well why didn't he give that opportunity to Vitali Klitschko? Lewis was knocked unconscious by both McCall and Rahman (no lucky punches in boxing IMO, so I'm not buying that Rahman got in with a "lucky punch") but a more controversial fight where Lewis was losing on the scorecards of all the judges and managed to escape with a TKO victory on cuts doesn't warrant a rematch Just a year earlier he was pounding his chest acting high and mighty after beating the ghost of Mike Tyson yet now he's running away from a rematch from a guy who fought him on short notice?

He even verbally said that he would fight him again "if the money was right" and this fight would have been just as lucrative if not more lucrative as a rematch with Tyson. From the looks of it, Vitali ran Lewis into retirement. He declined him the same opportunities which were given to him against Rahman and McCall.

Bottom line is that ... Lennox Lewis ducked a rematch fight with Vitali Klitschko. I don't recall Mike Tyson or any of the highly regarded heavyweight champions of the past ducking anyone into retirement.

[DavilaJones]

What puts Lewis ahead of guys like Mike Tyson for me is that he came back in fights and rematches after taking a beating. Vitali was fucking Lewis up in the first two rounds and Lennox had the strength of character to dig deep and keep landing bombs.

I think that's what annoys a lot of anti Lewis types they would like to say that Lewis had no guts but that fight proved that he actually did. I also give full respect to Rachman for the first fight you can't take it way from him, he's a sad figure now though :-(

Rahman landed a lucky shot on Lewis in their 1st fight, mainly because Lewis was clowning and got caught on the ropes. It was a hard, flush shot on the chin that would have knocked any HW out. Lewis's chin wasn't really that bad, and you certainly couldn't question the dude's heart if you watched the fight with Vitali. Plus, who the fuck has come even close to giving Vitali a beating like that since? Lewis was a great Champion, who deserves more credit than he gets.

BTW, I was never much of a Lewis fan, when he got KTFO by Rahman, I couldn't have been more pleased, i'm just giving credit where credit is due.

cheers

I really don't know anyone who wouldn't give Lennox Lewis credit. The man was one of the best heavyweights ever. I just want to point out though that at the time of his reign he was considered boring and never taking too much risks, staying o the outside landing jabs to soften his opponents until they're read to go, if that sounds familiar to anyone, well....

Sad thing is we only appreciate greatness after its gone.

[roberto duran legend]

I will say this for Lewis,like all the greats before him,he beat everyone in his era.
You cant do more than that chaps. Great fighter.

[ross]

What puts Lewis ahead of guys like Mike Tyson for me is that he came back in fights and rematches after taking a beating. Vitali was fucking Lewis up in the first two rounds and Lennox had the strength of character to dig deep and keep landing bombs.

I think that's what annoys a lot of anti Lewis types they would like to say that Lewis had no guts but that fight proved that he actually did. I also give full respect to Rachman for the first fight you can't take it way from him, he's a sad figure now though :-(

Rahman landed a lucky shot on Lewis in their 1st fight, mainly because Lewis was clowning and got caught on the ropes. It was a hard, flush shot on the chin that would have knocked any HW out. Lewis's chin wasn't really that bad, and you certainly couldn't question the dude's heart if you watched the fight with Vitali. Plus, who the fuck has come even close to giving Vitali a beating like that since? Lewis was a great Champion, who deserves more credit than he gets.

BTW, I was never much of a Lewis fan, when he got KTFO by Rahman, I couldn't have been more pleased, i'm just giving credit where credit is due.

cheers

Where dyou get that shit?

Lewis was knackered! He had a pathetic guard up and Rahman smashed through it easily!

As for Lewis beating him in the rematch, big fucking deal! He was supposed to do it easy the first time round! He would always be ranked lower than some think he should because such lower tier fighters were able to conclusively knock him sparko with such ease.

Lewis never had an extended period where he was the undeniable best heavy around. There was always someone else. You had McCall who smashed him out of his first incarnation and since then, no one would ever take him seriously on an all time list. He was lucky to get a decision against Mercer who an old Holmes beat He wanted no part of Byrd, he should have lost the Holyfield rematch and then he ends his career falling on to his stool against Vitali and doesn't want to punctuate the win with a better performance

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=inehc0s0rDs

[TysonBomb]

Yeah, that was no "lucky punch" that Rahman KOed Lewis with. He went right through Lewis' guard and put him down. Rahman had power, no doubt, but it wasn't anything extraordinary like people are making him out it to be ... McCall was never reputed with possessing one punch KO power either

Both had above average power but were able to one shot Lewis, who had an OK chin at best.

In addition to avoiding Chris Byrd, he refused to fight John Ruiz as well. Bruno was beating him before he had his usual break down and even Shannon Briggs hurt him and made him stumble backwards. Lewis was simply the man who came out on top in the 90s but he was never considered as the best heavyweight around without question.

[Fenster]

@TysonBomb

This is common knowledge

Lewis Sues Tyson and King Over No-Show at Staples - Los Angeles Times

[NuthaPug]

I think Lennox has one of the most underrated chins in boxing history. People cite him being KTFO twice as proof he had a glass jaw... first off, Mccall (who hit like a freight train) caught him with a perfect shot that would have finished just about anyone. Same with Rahman, who caught Lennox flush with his back to the ropes. These are two guys with serious power. And like a great champ, he came back with two brutal, one-sided rematch wins.

This bell rings true.

[Master]

Lennox did not avoid Byrd or Ruiz, Lennox would have taken them out they were not in his class and never were. Lewis was at the point in his career where he had unified the division and there was too much politics to keep all the titles. So he essentially sold his titles to Don King and chased a big money fight with Tyson which was the only real reason he would carry on boxing.

True he struggled with Bruno but that was before he was with Steward. Sure he got rattled by Briggs and Akinwande but he on those fights. That shows that Lennox had a good heart and determination.

[armyash]

I always liked LL too. I remember when I first got in to boxing in a big way and I was doing my paper round and reading all the sports pages after the first Holyfield fight. We never had sky or internet and stuff back then so had to wait to see the papers.

He doesn't get the credit he deserves now because the people judging him are still the people who may not have liked him just because they were Holyfiield/Tyson fans etc. In many years to come he will be considered a legend especially when the people see the names on his record.

One thing I'd like to say is that I would have liked to see a rematch with Vitali before retirement. People say that Lewis was unfit, overweight. Yes he was but he had been training for a fight (Johnson?) Klitschko took the fight at short notice, so he would not have been in tip top condition or as mentally prepared as he could have been. I always thought that was Lewis's plan. However funny that might sound but a lot of people had been calling for them to meet and I think Lewis intended to offer the fight to Klitschko after paying Johnson to pull out thus catching Klitschko not at his best.

Whatever. Lewis faced just about everyone he could and that KO of Rahman was pure class, the only thing that takes the shine off it is that he should have done it first time round.

Vitali was fighting Cedric Boswell on the undercard that night. He was fully prepared to fight.

If either had an advantage it was Vitali. As underdog, challenger and with a reputation as a "quitter" he had NOTHING to lose. Whereas Lewis hadn't fought in a year, had been contemplating retirement and basically fought to save the bill.

Can't argue with that.

[TysonBomb]

Lennox did not avoid Byrd or Ruiz, Lennox would have taken them out they were not in his class and never were. Lewis was at the point in his career where he had unified the division and there was too much politics to keep all the titles. So he essentially sold his titles to Don King and chased a big money fight with Tyson which was the only real reason he would carry on boxing.

True he struggled with Bruno but that was before he was with Steward. Sure he got rattled by Briggs and Akinwande but he on those fights. That shows that Lennox had a good heart and determination.

Byrd gave Vitali trouble and beat him and Holyfield went life and death with Ruiz, losing a fight, winning one and stalemating him for their final fight.

I'm not one of those "triangle" theory guys who believed that if A beats B and B beats C that means A beats C or anything but Ruiz and Byrd were definitely competitors. Can't just write them off like that ... nobody wanted to fight Chris Byrd and John Ruiz did become a champion and beat some big names.

And with Lewis getting KTFO by guys who also weren't supposed to be in his "class" anything is possible.