The Global Warming crowd is at war....with the poor

[El Kabong]

For every pro-drilling article you can post saying we'll never run out of oil, I can probably post one that says we're depleting the world's supplies. Depends on who's writing, and what their personal interests are.

Saying we'll "never" run out of oil, on the weight of the words alone, seems a bit ludicrous. Oil is a finite resource, which is consumed at a far higher rate than it will ever be replenished. Add to that the still to be established demand from developing giants such as China, as you yourself mentioned, and you have a huge increase in daily demand.

Economists can play games all day long with talks of bottlenecks and "turning down the faucets" in order to raise prices, all tied to the usual greedy, shitty politics we humans like to play with everything. But fact of the matter is..... demand is demand. We're still consuming at an alarming rate. And we're constantly under pressure to find new oil fields, and come up with viable technology to squeeze oil from previously ignored sources. In the end, we're still pumping gas.... whether at $4 a gallon, or $15 a gallon.

It's very convenient for those who don't give a shit about the environment or finite oil resources to lump everyone else into "cute-named" groups, such as "alarmists" and "doomsdayers". It's also lazy and irresponsible.

So WHEN will we run out of oil then? Next year? 5 years from now? 10? 50? 100? 1,000? 10,000 years? Since the day oil was first found & put to use people have said we're going to run out and at this point they have the same "batting average" as the people who have predicted "The Rapture"....so you can understand my being hesitant to side with them.

My view on the subject is this: if you want to find alternative fuel sources fine but do not expect me to use them if they are not cheap & effective, also I do not wish for my government to subsidize such flights of fancy when they are currently not practical. It is a waste of time and money and while there is still starvation & disease we should focus on those issues...perhaps better schools as well...as those things might one day lead to the discovery of a good source of alternative fuel. All the Anthropogenic Global Warming eggheads are doing these days is leeching off of government grants, lining the pockets of politicians with their bullshit boondoggle IPO's, and hurting the average person in the wallet. Gas is over $4/gallon in LA....nice stuff.

[TitoFan]

Tito,

I get the feeling you didn't read the article b/c the title is a bit tongue in cheek furthermore Reason internally source's all their documents. In short Libertarians deal with facts and logic unlike the other two major parties. They do a pretty good job of showing how we have allegedly been about to run out of oil multiple times only to find new deposits and new technologies to get resources previously believed out of reach. The bottlenecking is not some political game it is a real result of refineries being closed in the last 12 months for a variety of reasons which is slowing the supply side and causing the current spike in prices. I'm not sure if your last bit is pointed at me or not but I probably spend more time in the woods than most on this board and have a real vested interest in the environment and conservation. I don't worry about reports on dwindling oil reserves b/c it is an attempt to manufacture a false crisis. So yeah there is a certain level of doomsday proponents and alarmists out there beating the drum not altruistically but to further their own interests.

It's like many other issues, VC. Unfortunately, there's always going to be the fanatical "alarmists" and "doomsayers" that ruin the argument for everyone else. AND... provide oil companies and anti-environmentalists with good ammunition with which to fire back at the responsible people who just want their points to be heard. And while some bottlenecks may be in fact due to supply problems at some point.... there's been other, well-documented instances where oil "shortages" are nothing but attempts by OPEC to control prices for their own greedy capital gains.

So WHEN will we run out of oil then? Next year? 5 years from now? 10? 50? 100? 1,000? 10,000 years? Since the day oil was first found & put to use people have said we're going to run out and at this point they have the same "batting average" as the people who have predicted "The Rapture"....so you can understand my being hesitant to side with them.

My view on the subject is this: if you want to find alternative fuel sources fine but do not expect me to use them if they are not cheap & effective, also I do not wish for my government to subsidize such flights of fancy when they are currently not practical. It is a waste of time and money and while there is still starvation & disease we should focus on those issues...perhaps better schools as well...as those things might one day lead to the discovery of a good source of alternative fuel. All the Anthropogenic Global Warming eggheads are doing these days is leeching off of government grants, lining the pockets of politicians with their bullshit boondoggle IPO's, and hurting the average person in the wallet. Gas is over $4/gallon in LA....nice stuff.

Leave out the "next year", 5 years, 1,000 years, and the 10,000 years.... and the real number is anybody's guess, Lyle. I can only talk about what I've read in supposedly neutral publications. I read that at the current rate of consumption, with most other factors considered, we could be looking at a major dropoff in "readily obtainable" oil by the decade of the 2050's. Who knows?

And please read the following statement carefully: I too do not wish to pay for alternative energy sources that are not cheap and effective. That doesn't mean I don't want research and development to continue to try and make alternative energy sources cheap and effective.

Please read the following statement carefully also: I too do not wish for massive government subsidies to pursue these alternative fuels at the expense of other causes that need money. BUT... I also do not wish for development of these alternatives to be "discouraged" by the mighty financial powers that represent oil interests. Let's not be naive here. It is not in Exxon's best interests for some scientist and/or engineer to suddenly discover and develop a technology that allows us to free ourselves from our addiction to oil.

[El Kabong]

One shouldn't worry about "Big Oil" if their product will eventually run out, thatmeans eventually there will be no such thing as "Big Oil" much as there are no people using whale oil lamps anymore. In fact Big Oil, might lead the way in manufacturing alternative fuels so they can continue selling energy to the people....would that not make the most sense

[TitoFan]

Opinions may differ on this, but I'd rather not wait until oil runs out, or begins to dwindle.... (OR... becomes so expensive to extract that we find ourselves paying $50 a gallon). I'd rather continue aggresively on developing alternative energy sources now, while we can still consume oil relatively cheaply and easily. That way, we can someday transition off oil, while still maintaining enough reserves to fall back on.

[El Kabong]

Opinions may differ on this, but I'd rather not wait until oil runs out, or begins to dwindle.... (OR... becomes so expensive to extract that we find ourselves paying $50 a gallon). I'd rather continue aggresively on developing alternative energy sources now, while we can still consume oil relatively cheaply and easily. That way, we can someday transition off oil, while still maintaining enough reserves to fall back on.

Natural Gas is a cheap alternative and the United States has the most of it & it's cleaner fuel than oil or coal & fairly cheap....why not start there as opposed to some hairbrained idea about windmills?

[TitoFan]

Opinions may differ on this, but I'd rather not wait until oil runs out, or begins to dwindle.... (OR... becomes so expensive to extract that we find ourselves paying $50 a gallon). I'd rather continue aggresively on developing alternative energy sources now, while we can still consume oil relatively cheaply and easily. That way, we can someday transition off oil, while still maintaining enough reserves to fall back on.

Natural Gas is a cheap alternative and the United States has the most of it & it's cleaner fuel than oil or coal & fairly cheap....why not start there as opposed to some hairbrained idea about windmills?

I'm actually pro-natural gas. I'm also in favor of some types of biofuels (those derived from waste, rather than those based on food crops, such as corn). Whatever helps to alleviate our dependence on oil.

Not blind to the fact that oil plays a huge part in global politics, I would even venture to say that it would be advantageous for the U.S. to develop alternative fuels and save their own oil reserves as a hedge against foreign oil.

[VictorCharlie]

I'm actually pro-natural gas. I'm also in favor of some types of biofuels (those derived from waste, rather than those based on food crops, such as corn). Whatever helps to alleviate our dependence on oil.

Not blind to the fact that oil plays a huge part in global politics, I would even venture to say that it would be advantageous for the U.S. to develop alternative fuels and save their own oil reserves as a hedge against foreign oil.

The real benefit would be telling the entire middle east that we no longer give a shit if they murder each other indefinitely and fuck off.

[TitoFan]

I'm actually pro-natural gas. I'm also in favor of some types of biofuels (those derived from waste, rather than those based on food crops, such as corn). Whatever helps to alleviate our dependence on oil.

Not blind to the fact that oil plays a huge part in global politics, I would even venture to say that it would be advantageous for the U.S. to develop alternative fuels and save their own oil reserves as a hedge against foreign oil.

The real benefit would be telling the entire middle east that we no longer give a shit if they murder each other indefinitely and fuck off.

Exactly. They would no longer have anything we need.
And by not needing anything they own... we wouldn't need to interfere in their business... and we wouldn't be seen as bad guys anymore.

[VictorCharlie]

I'm actually pro-natural gas. I'm also in favor of some types of biofuels (those derived from waste, rather than those based on food crops, such as corn). Whatever helps to alleviate our dependence on oil.

Not blind to the fact that oil plays a huge part in global politics, I would even venture to say that it would be advantageous for the U.S. to develop alternative fuels and save their own oil reserves as a hedge against foreign oil.

The real benefit would be telling the entire middle east that we no longer give a shit if they murder each other indefinitely and fuck off.

Exactly. They would no longer have anything we need.
And by not needing anything they own... we wouldn't need to interfere in their business... and we wouldn't be seen as bad guys anymore.

Slow down. Don't underestimate the huge case of penis envy found in the fertile crescent. Nothing rally's the jihadis like a good hate the Great American Satan pep song.

[TitoFan]

I'm actually pro-natural gas. I'm also in favor of some types of biofuels (those derived from waste, rather than those based on food crops, such as corn). Whatever helps to alleviate our dependence on oil.

Not blind to the fact that oil plays a huge part in global politics, I would even venture to say that it would be advantageous for the U.S. to develop alternative fuels and save their own oil reserves as a hedge against foreign oil.

The real benefit would be telling the entire middle east that we no longer give a shit if they murder each other indefinitely and fuck off.

Exactly. They would no longer have anything we need.
And by not needing anything they own... we wouldn't need to interfere in their business... and we wouldn't be seen as bad guys anymore.

Slow down. Don't underestimate the huge case of penis envy found in the fertile crescent. Nothing rally's the jihadis like a good hate the Great American Satan pep song.

Yeah, they'd find some other reason or cause.
Like the decadent Western civilization corrupting their women to the point where they're now showing some ankle.

[El Kabong]

Yeah, they'd find some other reason or cause.
Like the decadent Western civilization corrupting their women to the point where they're now showing some ankle.

That used to be Afghanistan....no hijabs, no burkas, no throwing acid on women trying to educate themselves. I hate to use "those people" but ....those people that run those countries aren't right in the head, they're refusing polio vaccinations because they say it makes their women sluts.


How do you try and reason with that man?

[TitoFan]

You don't. The only way is to beat them into submission. Unfortunately, many of today's civilized world powers are either wusses.... or they just don't give a shit about anything that happens outside their borders. See no evil, hear no evil. And when the U.S. intervenes... guess who gets shit thrown in their faces.

The more I think about it, the more I think the U.S. should demand that international peacekeeping organizations grow some balls. If we were talking people instead of nations, I'm sure that's what would be happening.

[El Kabong]

....the problem with that is #1 the US supplies the most troops to the UN #2 you've got the added bureaucracy of involving China & Russia who don't do anything "just because" and #3 the leader of the UN is usually some corrupt little Banana Republic dickweed that we shouldn't trust.

People (mainly people who run other nations) are jealous of what the United States grew into so quickly. Nations in the Middle East have shit tons of money, but they can't touch what the United States is, what we produce, what we give, what we create. I wish the US could do more to help our own citizens & other nations, I wish we could all be on the same wavelength and just work together instead of playing tug-of-war....but in order for that to happen, people have to choose of their own free will to join "the good guys" (United States politicians included).....until then it's just a pipe dream