"quality" opponents Wlad "fought"

[Max Power]

Wladimir has had a much more extensive career, has been more dominant and has fought+beaten MORE decent opponents than Lennox.

How can you say the above?

Lennox would pulverise Wlad and yet you have the audacity to make the statement above.

I think Lennox vs Wladimir is something close to a 50/50 fight, and these days the slight edge might be even given to WK! Factoring Emanuel Steward into the picture it might even be determined as others have said before me, by which corner he happened to sit in (were he to be around).

The only time Lennox fought anybody close to Wladimir's level, Vitali, he in my opinion got pulverised himself but that is another argument.

The best version of Wladimir imo is a tougher opponent for Lennox than the version of Vitali he fought and only managed to get by through unconventional means.

The most elite versions of WK, VK and LL are basically comparable. They all never were really outclassed at all and basically punched the living shit out of all of their opponents like no others have.

[Beanflicker]

Lennox Lewis vs Wlad would have been a great fight to see.

[El Kabong]

Wlad has fought plenty of quality opponents...if the haters stop adjusting the goal posts.


The quality Lennox Lewis fought is different how? Tyson? Bowe, Holyfield, Moorer?


Who do they have on their resumes that put them so far ahead of Wlad? Wlad has beaten the young up and comers, the old vets, the comebacks, avenged defeats, got up off the canvas to win, he's beaten the flavors of the month, the undefeated to that point.....stop asking the impossible of the guy and appreciate what he has accomplished for fucks sake.


Oh once he retires the division will be more competitive? Yeah allow me to ask, will that be for the better or worse? Will we see stand and trade toughman fights or will we see good boxing? Wlad is so far ahead of everyone else in heavyweight boxing today he won't be fully appreciated until he does retire and you guys finally get a look at who is left in the division.....certainly no one as dominant as Wladimir! He's behind Holmes and Joe fucking Louis as the longest reigning heavyweight champion of ALL TIME! Show some God damned respect

[Silkeyjoe]

Wlad has fought plenty of quality opponents...if the haters stop adjusting the goal posts.


The quality Lennox Lewis fought is different how? Tyson? Bowe, Holyfield, Moorer?


Who do they have on their resumes that put them so far ahead of Wlad? Wlad has beaten the young up and comers, the old vets, the comebacks, avenged defeats, got up off the canvas to win, he's beaten the flavors of the month, the undefeated to that point.....stop asking the impossible of the guy and appreciate what he has accomplished for fucks sake.


Oh once he retires the division will be more competitive? Yeah allow me to ask, will that be for the better or worse? Will we see stand and trade toughman fights or will we see good boxing? Wlad is so far ahead of everyone else in heavyweight boxing today he won't be fully appreciated until he does retire and you guys finally get a look at who is left in the division.....certainly no one as dominant as Wladimir! He's behind Holmes and Joe fucking Louis as the longest reigning heavyweight champion of ALL TIME! Show some God damned respect

Vitali. Wlad has beaten nobody close to Vitalis level

[El Kabong]

#1 Vitali was a replacement opponent for Kirk Johnson who pulled out of the Lennox Lewis fight due to an injury. As good and deserving of a title shot as Vitali was at the time it was a short notice fight for Lennox's Swan Song...yes it was far tougher than Lennox had predicted it would be but that's the fight game. Hell of a fight for certain but it was by no means a planned occurrence, Lennox was supposed to go out an easy winner instead of a gassed out champion who got lucky with a cut.

#2 Show me where in boxing that brothers have fought each other. Roger and Floyd Mayweather Sr? JC Jr and Omar Chavez? Max and Buddy Baer? Kubrat and Tervel Pulev? Joe and Arturo Gatti? Matthew and Ricky Hatton? It doesn't happen, I'm sorry that's just the facts and it's infantile to keep pressing the "Wlad and Vitali should have fought each other" issue when nobody else did it and for good reason.

[Silkeyjoe]

#1 Vitali was a replacement opponent for Kirk Johnson who pulled out of the Lennox Lewis fight due to an injury. As good and deserving of a title shot as Vitali was at the time it was a short notice fight for Lennox's Swan Song...yes it was far tougher than Lennox had predicted it would be but that's the fight game. Hell of a fight for certain but it was by no means a planned occurrence, Lennox was supposed to go out an easy winner instead of a gassed out champion who got lucky with a cut.

#2 Show me where in boxing that brothers have fought each other. Roger and Floyd Mayweather Sr? JC Jr and Omar Chavez? Max and Buddy Baer? Kubrat and Tervel Pulev? Joe and Arturo Gatti? Matthew and Ricky Hatton? It doesn't happen, I'm sorry that's just the facts and it's infantile to keep pressing the "Wlad and Vitali should have fought each other" issue when nobody else did it and for good reason.

I didnt say they should fight. I just said Wlad hasnt fought anyone near Vitalis level. Which is what you asked for?

[SlimTrae]

The quality Lennox Lewis fought is different how?

Who do they have on their resumes that put them so far ahead of Wlad?

Wlad is so far ahead of everyone else in heavyweight boxing today he won't be fully appreciated until he does retire and you guys finally get a look at who is left in the division..... Show some God damned respect

Good post:
Do you remember Lennox went through the same ordeal when he fought? The guy couldn't live up to the expectations of the fans.
He retires, and now people look back on his reign as a wonderous ordeal.
Agree?

Same with Holyfield. I remember when he was called a blown up cruiser & he was dogged for not being able to stop Forman, dogged for his fight with Dokes.

He loses to Bowe--and THEN he got his respect from the fans. No longer was he the real-deal Holyfield, he became Evander the Warrior.
He didnt get respect by winning titles he got his trial by fire. Not saying it was right, but it is...what it is...

I truly think the same with Wlad.
It's no so much of just saying Wlad does not have skilled fighters on his resume as much as saying he doesnt have the type of fighters on his resume who go out on their shield, such as Haye's weak romp with him.
From your knowlegeable post may I seriously ask you: Do you think Haye gave it his all?

On one hand Wlad has steamrolled his foes and ruled with dominance, (we all seem in agreement with that)

But doubters have the right to look at his whole career and remember the limited guys with skill gave it their all- Sanders, Purrity, Brewster just as tired as he was & they got the win over Him.

But the current fighters on Wlad's resume who are more skilled than Sanders & crew, didn't go all out, so we can't even come close to putting any of Wlad's recent foes on the Great defeats threads. They belong on a {they punked out) thread.

Last: Wlad's mentor Manny Steward who shaped Hearns' jab, Lennox's jab has done the same for Wlad- Perfected it. So he may not get his due until he retires...

[Master]

Big brother Vitali would beat Wlad never mind Lennox Lewis. The reason is both Vitali and Lennox can mix it. They both can make it a physical fight whereas Wlad just holds when anyone comes in close. Wlad is not sturdy enough to handle Lennox Lewis. Prime Lennox Lewis smashes Wlad to little bits.

[El Kabong]

Wlad isn't fighting Vitali, Wlad isn't fighting Lennox Lewis...those guys are retired.

Vitali's reign at the top....not as long as Wladimir's

Lennox's reign...not as long as Wladimir's


Now of course Lennox had some proper rivals: Holyfield (an older one), Grant (like it or not was built up to be a rival), Tyson (albeit an older one), David Tua, Frank Bruno (an older one) etc. But there were guys Lewis never fought Riddick Bowe comes to mind. Not Lennox's fault, but the fight didn't happen we can speculate on how it would go but it'll never be more than speculation.


The odds of a fighter being 100% PERFECT fighting the right guys at the right times in the right places in the right style and getting the calls, not getting injured in training, having promoters agree....at some point people start getting really fucking ridiculous. Appreciate what Wlad is and that is an All-Time Great Heavyweight Champion and if you disagree with that then I'm sorry to inform you that you are as wrong as one could be about anything. Wlad is dominance personified right now how people don't see that or refuse to see that I don't know he just took out the best pure boxer the division had to offer him with EASE and with the 3rd best punch in his arsenal.

[Master]

Wlad is quality and consistent for over 10 years and probably break Holmes record so he deserves credit but I do not see him beating Lennox.

[Silkeyjoe]

Wlad isn't fighting Vitali, Wlad isn't fighting Lennox Lewis...those guys are retired.

Vitali's reign at the top....not as long as Wladimir's

Lennox's reign...not as long as Wladimir's


Now of course Lennox had some proper rivals: Holyfield (an older one), Grant (like it or not was built up to be a rival), Tyson (albeit an older one), David Tua, Frank Bruno (an older one) etc. But there were guys Lewis never fought Riddick Bowe comes to mind. Not Lennox's fault, but the fight didn't happen we can speculate on how it would go but it'll never be more than speculation.


The odds of a fighter being 100% PERFECT fighting the right guys at the right times in the right places in the right style and getting the calls, not getting injured in training, having promoters agree....at some point people start getting really fucking ridiculous. Appreciate what Wlad is and that is an All-Time Great Heavyweight Champion and if you disagree with that then I'm sorry to inform you that you are as wrong as one could be about anything. Wlad is dominance personified right now how people don't see that or refuse to see that I don't know he just took out the best pure boxer the division had to offer him with EASE and with the 3rd best punch in his arsenal.

Hes the best heavyweight of all time in my opinion. He just hasnt had one career defining win against another all time great which keeps him further down the list of ATGs. Very similar to Floyd imo. Both could be top 10 if in Wlads case he had better opponents or if Floyd would push himself with opposition.

[SlimTrae]

Lennox's reign...not as long as Wladimir's


Now of course Lennox had some proper rivals: Holyfield (an older one), Grant (like it or not was built up to be a rival), Tyson (albeit an older one), David Tua, Frank Bruno (an older one) etc. But there were guys Lewis never fought Riddick Bowe comes to mind. Not Lennox's fault, but the fight didn't happen we can speculate on how it would go but it'll never be more than speculation.


.

I remember Lewis vs Grant was billed as 2BIG Lewis exposed that boy as 2fraudulent, so I concur.

I also remember Rock Newman having Riddick Bowe throw the belt in the garbage can. As much as I like Riddick-- that was a hoe-ass move. I credit Lennox for that- How does Bowe not want to fight that man who beat him in the olympics?

Tyson would beat Bruce Seldon because he payed Lennox Lewis $ 4 million dollars September 1996 to 'step aside' correct? That is the buster of all hoe azz moves. especially considering that phantom punch Seldon got hit with....two knockdowns.

Akinwande was so scurred of Lennox he held him like they were slow dragging at prom night- till he got DQ'd.

And just like Wlad, Lennox got stopped by nobodies- McCall (Tyson's sparring partner) and Rahman who Maskaev beat his butt outta the ring. Jim Lampley: Rahman is LAYING RIGHT NEXT TO ME! RIGHT NEXT TO ME!

What separates Lennox from Wlad appears simple to me: Lennox has been in dog fights- and won.
Tyson decisioned Ruddock- Lewis destroyed him in 2. Bruno IMO was to Lennox what Brewster was to Wlad- both Lennox & Wlad were raw and didnt have years of Manny Steward's mentoring.
Mercer to Lewis IMO could be Sanders & Wlad. Not style wise, but digging deep down.
Lennox dug down deep, Wlad just fell down.
Golota had just schooled Bowe, but broke down mentally & DQ'd Going into that fight Golota's rep IMO was more solid than say an Ibrigamov or Povetkin for Wlad...Lennox destroyed that boy in one.

Briggs - strong fighter but suspect skills came out swingin for the fences and Lennox dismantled Briggs and landed Haye-friggin makers on Briggs.

Based on those fights and the ones not made, give me the opinion that Wlad wouldn't have hung with Lennox. Not a fact, its all speculation, as you said we will never know, so we just argue like we think we know how it woulda went down and I say Lennox beats Wlad's Muth#@%^! ass!
What is fact: Wlad has ruled for a long time like Holmes and I really dont have too many good names to add to Larry Holmes either..

[Max Power]

Wlad has fought plenty of quality opponents...if the haters stop adjusting the goal posts.


The quality Lennox Lewis fought is different how? Tyson? Bowe, Holyfield, Moorer?


Who do they have on their resumes that put them so far ahead of Wlad? Wlad has beaten the young up and comers, the old vets, the comebacks, avenged defeats, got up off the canvas to win, he's beaten the flavors of the month, the undefeated to that point.....stop asking the impossible of the guy and appreciate what he has accomplished for fucks sake.


Oh once he retires the division will be more competitive? Yeah allow me to ask, will that be for the better or worse? Will we see stand and trade toughman fights or will we see good boxing? Wlad is so far ahead of everyone else in heavyweight boxing today he won't be fully appreciated until he does retire and you guys finally get a look at who is left in the division.....certainly no one as dominant as Wladimir! He's behind Holmes and Joe fucking Louis as the longest reigning heavyweight champion of ALL TIME! Show some God damned respect

Just like with Lennox and all the top champs, their widespread acceptance wont be complete until after their retirement.

Except these days the difference is many realise the true worth BEFORE the era is ling in the past.

[Max Power]

Lennox's reign...not as long as Wladimir's


Now of course Lennox had some proper rivals: Holyfield (an older one), Grant (like it or not was built up to be a rival), Tyson (albeit an older one), David Tua, Frank Bruno (an older one) etc. But there were guys Lewis never fought Riddick Bowe comes to mind. Not Lennox's fault, but the fight didn't happen we can speculate on how it would go but it'll never be more than speculation.


.

I remember Lewis vs Grant was billed as 2BIG Lewis exposed that boy as 2fraudulent, so I concur.

I also remember Rock Newman having Riddick Bowe throw the belt in the garbage can. As much as I like Riddick-- that was a hoe-ass move. I credit Lennox for that- How does Bowe not want to fight that man who beat him in the olympics?

Tyson would beat Bruce Seldon because he payed Lennox Lewis $ 4 million dollars September 1996 to 'step aside' correct? That is the buster of all hoe azz moves. especially considering that phantom punch Seldon got hit with....two knockdowns.

Akinwande was so scurred of Lennox he held him like they were slow dragging at prom night- till he got DQ'd.

And just like Wlad, Lennox got stopped by nobodies- McCall (Tyson's sparring partner) and Rahman who Maskaev beat his butt outta the ring. Jim Lampley: Rahman is LAYING RIGHT NEXT TO ME! RIGHT NEXT TO ME!

What separates Lennox from Wlad appears simple to me: Lennox has been in dog fights- and won.
Tyson decisioned Ruddock- Lewis destroyed him in 2. Bruno IMO was to Lennox what Brewster was to Wlad- both Lennox & Wlad were raw and didnt have years of Manny Steward's mentoring.
Mercer to Lewis IMO could be Sanders & Wlad. Not style wise, but digging deep down.
Lennox dug down deep, Wlad just fell down.
Golota had just schooled Bowe, but broke down mentally & DQ'd Going into that fight Golota's rep IMO was more solid than say an Ibrigamov or Povetkin for Wlad...Lennox destroyed that boy in one.

Briggs - strong fighter but suspect skills came out swingin for the fences and Lennox dismantled Briggs and landed Haye-friggin makers on Briggs.

Based on those fights and the ones not made, give me the opinion that Wlad wouldn't have hung with Lennox. Not a fact, its all speculation, as you said we will never know, so we just argue like we think we know how it woulda went down and I say Lennox beats Wlad's Muth#@%^! ass!
What is fact: Wlad has ruled for a long time like Holmes and I really dont have too many good names to add to Larry Holmes either..

I disagree.

Lewis never fought an opponent like Sanders, he ducked ALL southpaws. And Sanders combination of qualities, dangerous in the early rounds was EXACTLY the juice necessary to catch a lazy Lewis off guard and KO him as well. I would say not the same stylistically, but this fight is analogous to Lewis's loss to McCall!

The Brewster fight was illegitimate in my book because Wladimir was diagnosed with, PROVEN to have a life-threatening condition immediately post-bout. That is why the big money never materialised for Brewster because everybody KNEW. Of course it was good fuel for American haters to still try to pass off to this very day as negative stigma. The Brewster fight was NOTHING like the Mercer battle for Lennox, which was a competitive fight for LEwis. Wladimir single sidedly bashed Brewsters brains out until he succumbed to illness right at the very end. Wladimir would NEVER be troubled by a boxer like Ray MErcer ever.

Shannon Briggs BREACHED Lennox and nearly got the drop on him! Again, I can't see Wladimir having any problems with Shannon.

I can't see Wladimir letting MAvrovic run around for 12 rounds.

I can't see Wladimir losing rounds to Holyfield.

The only guys LEnnox truly wasted, Botha, Ruddock, Grant and Golota- These guys are nothing more than humdrum opponents for Wladimir too.

To say that Wladimir could not hang with LEnnox doesn't stand up to facts because many lesser fighters did and many lesser fighters pushed LEnnox.

[Max Power]

Wlad is quality and consistent for over 10 years and probably break Holmes record so he deserves credit but I do not see him beating Lennox.

Yes, LEnnox Lewis might just be the best boxer who ever lived (in the open class).

But Lennox's own performances call into question just how well he himself would have performed against Wladimir.

Although similar in proportions to Michael Grant, Wladimir is nothing like Grant. He would not attack LEwis like that and go for a dog fight. He would fight methodically and surgically as he always does. Lennox has never felt the concussive slam of that chopping right hand, that ramrod jab or that savage long-range left hook.