Was the power of Earnie Shavers overrated?

[Bill Paxtom]

Earnie Shavers

A damn good Heavyweight, who could end a fight with one-punch.

One of the hardest hitting fighters of All-Time.

[Max Power]

Earnie Shavers

A damn good Heavyweight FOR THAT TIME, who could end a fight with one-punch AGAINST BUMS AND CRUISERS HE MASSIVELY OUTSIZED ONLY!

One of the hardest hitting fighters of ONE-Time.

Fixed it for you

[Silkeyjoe]

Earnie Shavers

A damn good Heavyweight FOR THAT TIME, who could end a fight with one-punch AGAINST BUMS AND CRUISERS HE MASSIVELY OUTSIZED ONLY!

One of the hardest hitting fighters of ONE-Time.

Fixed it for you

You cant know this. You are stating that bigger means they hit harder which is true for most people but not all. Fighters who have fought each other know how hard someone hits and it happens all the time that fighters hit harder than their size suggests. A recent example would be GGG where cruisers and light heavies he has sparred have said he hits harder than anyone they have faced. If you look at his physique he is in good shape but I wouldnt say he is in the same condition as other middleweights of present and old but Id be fairly certain he hits harder. Further, compare him to super middles of present, andre ward has a similar frame to golovkin only bigger but he doesnt hit harder.

Even transfer this to the heavyweights. Fury is a very very big heavy but he doesnt hit all that hard. A good comparison would be to David Haye. A smaller heavy. Im pretty sure Haye hits harder.

There are plenty of examples where big heavyweights dont necessarily hit that hard. Mike Perez, Kubrat Pulev, Bryant Jennings, Odlanier Solis, Manuel Charr and biggest of them all Nicolai Valuev.

There is more to how hard you hit then just how big you are. Probably the most important is technique, but then size, bone density etc all also contribute.

I highly doubt Shavers hits as hard as Klitschko or Haye but I would think he can hit harder than a lot of the current heavies who are bigger than him. Im also not an hayday hugger and think Wlad would be able to beat any heavyweight of any era but you have to look beyond just size, and more importantly you have to take note of fighters opinions rather than just completely disregard them.

[Max Power]

Earnie Shavers

A damn good Heavyweight FOR THAT TIME, who could end a fight with one-punch AGAINST BUMS AND CRUISERS HE MASSIVELY OUTSIZED ONLY!

One of the hardest hitting fighters of ONE-Time.

Fixed it for you

You cant know this. You are stating that bigger means they hit harder which is true for most people but not all. Fighters who have fought each other know how hard someone hits and it happens all the time that fighters hit harder than their size suggests. A recent example would be GGG where cruisers and light heavies he has sparred have said he hits harder than anyone they have faced. If you look at his physique he is in good shape but I wouldnt say he is in the same condition as other middleweights of present and old but Id be fairly certain he hits harder. Further, compare him to super middles of present, andre ward has a similar frame to golovkin only bigger but he doesnt hit harder.

Even transfer this to the heavyweights. Fury is a very very big heavy but he doesnt hit all that hard. A good comparison would be to David Haye. A smaller heavy. Im pretty sure Haye hits harder.

There are plenty of examples where big heavyweights dont necessarily hit that hard. Mike Perez, Kubrat Pulev, Bryant Jennings, Odlanier Solis, Manuel Charr and biggest of them all Nicolai Valuev.

There is more to how hard you hit then just how big you are. Probably the most important is technique, but then size, bone density etc all also contribute.

I highly doubt Shavers hits as hard as Klitschko or Haye but I would think he can hit harder than a lot of the current heavies who are bigger than him. Im also not an hayday hugger and think Wlad would be able to beat any heavyweight of any era but you have to look beyond just size, and more importantly you have to take note of fighters opinions rather than just completely disregard them.

I am not just considering size=power. As if I would ever make such an idiotic statement as that!

It's just that Shavers had a lot of fights which provides a very representative sample. And you can see clearly that Shavers, like almost every other boxer, his power drops significantly the heavier his opponents got, until at about the entry point for HW, his KO performance was in the neighbourhood of Chris Byrd's!

I didn't make up the numbers, they are all there.

It's only when you look at Shavers career as being equal to other guys careers that Shavers seems like a destroyer but when you analyse it closely, he FAILED to KO bigger guys!

I also focussed on quality! Shavers also failed against GOOD opposition, size irrelevant, based purely on the oppoennts record at bout.

Now I'm sure Shavers is not a weak puncher. His power was the mainstay of his success. But he certainly didn't hit hard enough to KO most modern HW's and he wasn't skilled enough to land those ridiculous punches anyway.

He is no Wlad or Haye.
He is no Peter or Stiverne.

[Silkeyjoe]

I agree. I dont think he was that good and wouldnt beat most top heavies from this era. If Wilder fails to KO Stiverne does that automatically mean his power is overrated and not good?

[Beanflicker]

I think we have to define what overrated means here. Personally, when I say Earnie Shavers' power is overrated, I just mean I don't believe he was the hardest puncher of all time. He was one of them, but I don't think he can compare to a bomber who outweighs him by 40-50lbs. It's just physics.

Saying Shavers' power was "overrated" doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't punch. He was undoubtedly one of the hardest punchers of all time.

He was a shit fighter though. No chin, no heart, no stamina, basic skills. When people talk about him beating up the top HW's of today I have to shake my fucking head. I don't think these people have watched any Shavers' fights outside of KO highlights. Anybody who watches the guy and knows a thing about boxing knows that this guy wasn't championship material in any era. He fought a washed up, 36 year old Muhammad Ali, got in the best shape of his life, and couldn't get the job done. He landed a great punch vs Holmes (Larry had gotten careless from easily winning the last 21 rounds they had fought), he couldn't close the deal, he got stopped AGAIN. Oh, and he knocked out a 36 year old washed up Ken Norton. That's what he's known for. That's why he's so great? Because he knocked down Larry Holmes and failed to beat a geriatric Ali?

[EL DINAMITA]

Exactly what Beanflicker said. I never saw anybody calling shaver's power overrated.. I just said that he is Not the hardest puncher of all time like the old timers claim.. It is not the same..

Shavers was a shitty fighter doe.. Imagine what James Toney would've done to him.. He'll Lamon Brewster would have mirked him..

[Max Power]

I agree. I dont think he was that good and wouldnt beat most top heavies from this era. If Wilder fails to KO Stiverne does that automatically mean his power is overrated and not good?

No and that's a good point.

Failing against Stiverne would not detract from his obvious power.

That's why after making the comparisons against both weight AND record (=more total quality), I often then look at performance against JUST quality and JUST weight.

We can then get a better picture through end-point analysis, whether the boxer is a big puncher but not a good boxer or a good boxer but not a big puncher also.

It could also be that Wilder might fail against Stiverne but be able to flog out most of the other top heavies, which simply would just credit Bermane for beating such a good opponent and make Deontay just a notch below Stiv in my rankings.

[Spicoli]

Its Jeremy Williams I've always wondered if that was a hill to top for Peter as he went on, relying on power wise.

I think for the large part power tends to be overrated and overstated. Its who are you ko'ing...and can-are you doing it while facing adversity.

So you will bummify Jeremy Williams here to try and refute Peters power OR as you've also alluded to, try to DOWNGRADE power as a virtue altogether to cover it up AND make the claim that it matters WHO you are knocking out.

Your first point is off base because Jeremy Williams would have been one of Earnie Shavers best opponents and better than a lot of opponents who beat Earnie. In fact I think Jeremy Williams would have beaten Shavers.

Second point, Power is DEFINITELY a virtue of great magnitude. OF COURSE it is not the only thing relevant but many boxers (George Foreman, Samuel Peter, David Tua, EARNIE SHAVERS) have achieved top level with relatively little more), so obviously it is of importance, especially in the HW division!

Third point is particularly nefarious, considering Peters overall competition is approximately 100x better than the competition of Earnie Shavers was completely objectively. Samuel Peter was HW champ, there's a reason for that and Earnie never was and Earnie NEVER KNOCKED OUT A DECENT OPPONENT! With the single exception of Ken Norton who was a prolific bum buster himself, had no boxing pedigree and had a glass jaw and never even won his own title in the ring!

Its not the bummification of Williams, its simply the fact that a notorious puncher like Henry Akinwande was able to starch him with a single shot years earlier and Brian Nielson literally embarrassing him. The guy was near same weight as Shavers and showed shat stamina and a chin with the punch resistance of a Wal Mart bag full of light bulbs his entire career and between retirements. Great shot often talked about but certainly didn't make Peter the one punch ko artist he thought himself afterwards.

Power is indeed a virtue at heavy but lumping Foreman with a Tua, Shavers or even Peter is a stretch. As with Peter I think the Ruiz highlight ko was a back handed blessing for Tua. He got stuck on it and it turned out to be a one trick pony he always fell back on. Power without a delivery system, a set up, skill and discipline leaves you just throwing bricks with your eyes closed. Foreman early on had some caveman in him but damn sure developed all of the above and ran off another career with it. Tua was by all accounts the lil train that couldn't.

An off injury and rust covered Oleg Maskaev losing a trinket to Peter may be more of an indictment on the pimpification and pollution of trinkets falling out of gumball machines today rather than anything else. Are we making that Peters most significant ko while also disparaging Shavers ko of Norton with a straight face? Or would that be Jeremy Williams? Come on man

[Bill Paxtom]

Earnie Shavers

Only wanted to be an entertaining slugger.

He wasn't into playing Tiddly-Winks in the Ring.

Earnie Shavers >

"I could have easily boxed and jabbed. But who the Hell wants to see that. That is
why they have Featherweights."

"When people spend their hard earned money, they want to see Heavyweights slug
it out. I have no problem losing a bout. There will always be another one."

[Max Power]

Its not the bummification of Williams, its simply the fact that a notorious puncher like Henry Akinwande was able to starch him with a single shot years earlier and Brian Nielson literally embarrassing him. The guy was near same weight as Shavers and showed shat stamina and a chin with the punch resistance of a Wal Mart bag full of light bulbs his entire career and between retirements. Great shot often talked about but certainly didn't make Peter the one punch ko artist he thought himself afterwards.

Power is indeed a virtue at heavy but lumping Foreman with a Tua, Shavers or even Peter is a stretch. As with Peter I think the Ruiz highlight ko was a back handed blessing for Tua. He got stuck on it and it turned out to be a one trick pony he always fell back on. Power without a delivery system, a set up, skill and discipline leaves you just throwing bricks with your eyes closed. Foreman early on had some caveman in him but damn sure developed all of the above and ran off another career with it. Tua was by all accounts the lil train that couldn't.

An off injury and rust covered Oleg Maskaev losing a trinket to Peter may be more of an indictment on the pimpification and pollution of trinkets falling out of gumball machines today rather than anything else. Are we making that Peters most significant ko while also disparaging Shavers ko of Norton with a straight face? Or would that be Jeremy Williams? Come on man

Haha, that was a sharp as razor post there mate and you made some good points.

I fully agree the competition your up against negates power. Even for the best KOers of all time, the Klitschko's, Lennox and Tyson, their KO powers were reduced the higher quality the opposition they fought. Even if they did still KO them, it was pushed further into the later rounds.

Of course this is the case. I've no dispute there.

However, as glass jawed as Jeremy Williams was, you can't exactly detract too much from being wasted by guys like Akinwande or Peter because their power WAS proven at a higher level than Shavers was.

Of course you illustrated Ken Norton and drew the comparison with Oleg Maskaev and yeah sure, I realise the irony here, thanks for that. But I find it difficult to overturn Peter's career which was largely characterised by whacking out decent opponents left and right with Shavers who managed to stop early a washed up Ken Norton. Oleg Maskaev himself WAS a championship boxer at the time PEter fought him. Norton really wasn't.

On Geroge Foreman, I was actually referring to ONLY 70's Geroge, the one who could barely even box. Perhaps the least skilled of all champion boxers. He definitely DID learn how to box properly for his second career I agree but that was really a completely different fighter then.

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[holmcall]

http://www.heavyweightblog.com/2318/earnie-shavers-power-puncher-or-overrated-featherfist


Read it and weep

[Bill Paxtom]

John 'Tallarico' Girowski

"I sparred with everybody and anybody who was a 'name' Heavyweight.
And let me tell you, nobody hit harder than Earnie, nobody."

"Earnie's punches went right through your body. Your organs would be
messed up for weeks."

"I would put Earnie at #1. Both George Foreman and Roy 'Tiger' Williams
hit hard too, but not as hard as Earnie."

[Master]

So many fighters say Shavers hit hard and yet you deniers still can not accept it.