Prime for Prime who was faster?

[frozensolid-702]

Camacho and Meldrick Taylor have to be up there.

I came here just to post about Taylor.
It's a shame what happened in the Chavez fight, and how it essentially ruined him, but man his hands were like greased lightning

[Spicoli]

What's lost splitting hairs is the lite flurry.."quick and get out" vs the impactive trap reflex counter punchers. Top guys did both all in one. Shift gears and footwork sets the pattern. The best were quality at rolling in punches on a guy..tap, touch, sting, then sit down and end with solid pop is top combination punching. Otherwise your name is Chris John or Manuel Medina

[IamInuit]

What's lost splitting hairs is the lite flurry.."quick and get out" vs the impactive trap reflex counter punchers. Top guys did both all in one. Shift gears and footwork sets the pattern. The best were quality at rolling in punches on a guy..tap, touch, sting, then sit down and end with solid pop is top combination punching. Otherwise your name is Chris John or Manuel Medina

Good stuff. I've been looking at this thread since it was posted and my immediate response out-loud was Jones and Taylor and then the second guessing started. Camacho's raw speed was just as impressive but that's just one element.

Guys like Benitez and Floyd in their primes rarely got hit or missed. They were most likely just as capable to show that raw in and out but framed that speed around a defense and countering. Add to that especially in Floyds case his ability to do it all off the back foot and what you have is a perfect storm.

As you correctly pointed out, its everything coming together. Even in the Hearns/Leonard fight although close in raw speed, one would have ever thought that Tommy would out speed Leonard the way he did and he looked faster but was he?

[Master]

What's lost splitting hairs is the lite flurry.."quick and get out" vs the impactive trap reflex counter punchers. Top guys did both all in one. Shift gears and footwork sets the pattern. The best were quality at rolling in punches on a guy..tap, touch, sting, then sit down and end with solid pop is top combination punching. Otherwise your name is Chris John or Manuel Medina

Good stuff. I've been looking at this thread since it was posted and my immediate response out-loud was Jones and Taylor and then the second guessing started. Camacho's raw speed was just as impressive but that's just one element.

Guys like Benitez and Floyd in their primes rarely got hit or missed. They were most likely just as capable to show that raw in and out but framed that speed around a defense and countering. Add to that especially in Floyds case his ability to do it all off the back foot and what you have is a perfect storm.

As you correctly pointed out, its everything coming together. Even in the Hearns/Leonard fight although close in raw speed, one would have ever thought that Tommy would out speed Leonard the way he did and he looked faster but was he?

Actually Hearns was very fast too. His jab was like a jolt of lightening.

[mikeeod]

I feel like Hearns had that great single, to two punch speed, which is why his jab and right were so deadly. Hearns jab was VERY fast and it would intimidate guys and set them up for the lightning bolt right they would never see. Leonard would throw consistently higher/more punch combinations though, which combined with Tommy's style resulted in one of the greatest fights ever. People forget how good that fight was and how much skill both guys displayed, not to mention the amount of mental toughness and heart. Leonard cemented his status as an ATG that night. Not sure how many, if any, welterweights throughout the history of the sport could have beaten THAT Tommy Hearns.

[Master]

I feel like Hearns had that great single, to two punch speed, which is why his jab and right were so deadly. Hearns jab was VERY fast and it would intimidate guys and set them up for the lightning bolt right they would never see. Leonard would throw consistently higher/more punch combinations though, which combined with Tommy's style resulted in one of the greatest fights ever. People forget how good that fight was and how much skill both guys displayed, not to mention the amount of mental toughness and heart. Leonard cemented his status as an ATG that night. Not sure how many, if any, welterweights throughout the history of the sport could have beaten THAT Tommy Hearns.

I was not a fan of Leonard because I only saw him fight Hagler and thought he stole rounds.

When I saw Leonard at his peak as welterweight against Hearns, I thought wow that was a true great fighter. Leonard ruined his eye in that fight and in a way his career at the top.

[Mr140]

I think Ali has a case because he was fatest hw i have ever seen that jab was lighting speed and it had power to it because it would stop guys in there tracks. It is hard to judge speed from guys in different weight class I mean Tyson and Ali were fucking lighting speed for the hw divsion.

[Master]

Tyson had very fast hands, ramrod quick jab and lightening combinations.

[Beanflicker]

If you look at p4p speed, Tyson and Ali are up there.

p4p speed to me is taking the average speed of a particular division and deducing how far above the average a fighter was. In terms of the average HW speed, Ali and Tyson were lightning bolts.

[ElTerribleMorales]

I personally feel that RJJ had the fastest hands ever, and the fact that he packed so much power behind his quick shots adds to it, seeing how he didn't have to sacrifice power for speed as in other fighters cases, such as Mayweather, Whitaker, Calzaghe, even DLH wouldn't fully commit to shots so that he could put together flurries but most the shots wouldn't have too much power behind them

[No Contest]

Gonna go with Willie Pep.

[Beanflicker]

Gonna go with Willie Pep.

Nah.

[Master]

Gonna go with Willie Pep.

You know the black and white film is moving faster than they really did right?

[No Contest]

Gonna go with Willie Pep.

You know the black and white film is moving faster than they really did right?

Ok, but he still had some pretty fast flurries. Newer pics would be young Mayweather, and RJJ. Calzaghe had pretty fast hands, Sweet Pea on defensive movements.