The new ring rankings suck, and here's why!

[Kev]

I can't believe the BS I'M reading in this this thread. basically,you are saying becuase they are small,they should not be P4P or not as high up. Thats bullshit. As Mick said,doesn't the name Ricardo Lopez mean anything....And it's P4P,it's irrelevant whether he could beat up the man on the road


And secondly,to say that people just follow the writers is stupid,especially on this website. WE have hardcore fans who alot of S*** about the lower weights so just because you don't doesn't necessarily mean others dont either.

I think Bilbo and anyone who agrees needs to go and watch some tapes of the lighter weights because ou evidently lack knowledge in this area and that comes across in your points,they don't have substance.
It's you who has no knowledge about these fighters.

I'll take Rafale Marquez as an example. He has beaten as many Top 10 RING ranked fighters as anyone in the P4P lists,has beaten 2 HALL OF FAMERS,and is a superb boxer/puncher who if he was the same size as others in the P4P list,would KTFO most of them. But according to your thinking he should not be in there because um...he's smalll.....

And your analogy with womens boxing is the worst ever...what relevance does it have?

Bro,you're one of my fave posters here but this is P4P one of the worst statements I have ever read here:"Personally I don't think it should even be possible for a fighter below featherweight to even make the top 10 no matter how good his resume."





Honestly,I really don't know what to say about that. You are a lost cause my friend. I wouldn't mind if you made some valid points,I'd admit it but you dont!! It just boils down to,you don't watch lighter weights because they are too small,and they couldnt KO the man on the street...

I do watch the lower weigh fighters....they produce the most entertaining fights but its blindingly obvious that it is a grey area on this board. I say this because there was a time when we all did our p4p lists and a lot of folk were putting the marquez brothers in the top ten. Not that they don't deserve it. They do but folk were getting them both mixed up and/or admitting they had never seen them fight but had heard great things. If it wasn't a grey area there would be threads about minimum weight etc everyday. If it wasn't a grey area we wouldn't have been so shocked to see Arce get completely schooled by Mijares.

If it's not a grey area how come you don't see hardly any 8 stone fighters headlinging cards?

I admit you probably know a lot more about the smaller guys then i do but i really don't think i am alone on this.

Actually behind all my sarcasm and vitriol Ono did also see the kernal of truth in what I am saying. The Arce Mijares fight summed it up perfectly imo.

Arce was a big star and Mijares, despite being a world champ just wasn't a known quantity even by the judges. It's all very well saying Arce didn't prepare properly or whatever but the fact is that he was given an absolute beatdown. He lost EVERY round and ended up with a bigger ass whooping than Calzaghe gave Lacy.

The absolute suprise and shock of this just couldn't couldn't happen at the higher where all the top boxers are well known. Of course few expected Calzaghe to destroy Lacy, or Pavlik to destroy Miranda so easily but we all KNEW they were going to be great fights and understood the talents of all fighters involved.

At the lower weights, it's often just a lottery as to who will provide a decent challenge for the top little guys as none of their opponents are really known at all by anyone.

Under those circumstances how can you rate them properly? I don't believe you can, and thats why I think for the real lower weight guys, bantamweight and below, they need to really prove themselves to be special by rising through multiple weight divisions and beating guys bigger than themselves.

Pacquaio, Barrera, Morales J M Marquez and R Marquez ALL deserve to be in the rankings, just no way is Pacman at two ahead of Winky and R Marquez shouldn't be any higher than 9th imo.

[josef4334]

I can't believe the BS I'M reading in this this thread. basically,you are saying becuase they are small,they should not be P4P or not as high up. Thats bullshit. As Mick said,doesn't the name Ricardo Lopez mean anything....And it's P4P,it's irrelevant whether he could beat up the man on the road


And secondly,to say that people just follow the writers is stupid,especially on this website. WE have hardcore fans who alot of S*** about the lower weights so just because you don't doesn't necessarily mean others dont either.

I think Bilbo and anyone who agrees needs to go and watch some tapes of the lighter weights because ou evidently lack knowledge in this area and that comes across in your points,they don't have substance.
It's you who has no knowledge about these fighters.

I'll take Rafale Marquez as an example. He has beaten as many Top 10 RING ranked fighters as anyone in the P4P lists,has beaten 2 HALL OF FAMERS,and is a superb boxer/puncher who if he was the same size as others in the P4P list,would KTFO most of them. But according to your thinking he should not be in there because um...he's smalll.....

And your analogy with womens boxing is the worst ever...what relevance does it have?

Bro,you're one of my fave posters here but this is P4P one of the worst statements I have ever read here:"Personally I don't think it should even be possible for a fighter below featherweight to even make the top 10 no matter how good his resume."





Honestly,I really don't know what to say about that. You are a lost cause my friend. I wouldn't mind if you made some valid points,I'd admit it but you dont!! It just boils down to,you don't watch lighter weights because they are too small,and they couldnt KO the man on the street...

I do watch the lower weigh fighters....they produce the most entertaining fights but its blindingly obvious that it is a grey area on this board. I say this because there was a time when we all did our p4p lists and a lot of folk were putting the marquez brothers in the top ten. Not that they don't deserve it. They do but folk were getting them both mixed up and/or admitting they had never seen them fight but had heard great things. If it wasn't a grey area there would be threads about minimum weight etc everyday. If it wasn't a grey area we wouldn't have been so shocked to see Arce get completely schooled by Mijares.

If it's not a grey area how come you don't see hardly any 8 stone fighters headlinging cards?

I admit you probably know a lot more about the smaller guys then i do but i really don't think i am alone on this.

Actually behind all my sarcasm and vitriol Ono did also see the kernal of truth in what I am saying. The Arce Mijares fight summed it up perfectly imo.

Arce was a big star and Mijares, despite being a world champ just wasn't a known quantity even by the judges. It's all very well saying Arce didn't prepare properly or whatever but the fact is that he was given an absolute beatdown. He lost EVERY round and ended up with a bigger a** whooping than Calzaghe gave Lacy.

The absolute suprise and shock of this just couldn't couldn't happen at the higher where all the top boxers are well known. Of course few expected Calzaghe to destroy Lacy, or Pavlik to destroy Miranda so easily but we all KNEW they were going to be great fights and understood the talents of all fighters involved.

At the lower weights, it's often just a lottery as to who will provide a decent challenge for the top little guys as none of their opponents are really known at all by anyone.

Under those circumstances how can you rate them properly? I don't believe you can, and thats why I think for the real lower weight guys, bantamweight and below, they need to really prove themselves to be special by rising through multiple weight divisions and beating guys bigger than themselves.

Pacquaio, Barrera, Morales J M Marquez and R Marquez ALL deserve to be in the rankings, just no way is Pacman at two ahead of Winky and R Marquez shouldn't be any higher than 9th imo.

alright.. lets call everybody who does the ranking.. call ring magazine.. tell em to put pacman and Rafa out of top ten so bilbo could take a break from that cough medicine so his grandpa wont have to whoop his a$$

[MR_TWINKY13]

Man this post is dumb thats why they call it -POUND FOR POUND-
which means that boxing EXPERTS who study the sport all came to the conclusion of which boxer is better then other boxer based on skill, speed power etc.. not based on who is bigger.
so if that was the case u r ranking butterbean higher than rafa Marquez because he is bigger an he could probably eat rafas weight in one dinner

[Kev]

Man this post is dumb thats why they call it -POUND FOR POUND-
which means that boxing EXPERTS who study the sport all came to the conclusion of which boxer is better then other boxer based on skill, speed power etc.. not based on who is bigger.
so if that was the case u r ranking butterbean higher than rafa Marquez because he is bigger an he could probably eat rafas weight in one dinner

Mr Twinky, you are every bit as idiotic as your name suggests.

If you read my posts at all you'd see that I'm arguing for a more accurate reflection of p4p talents not less.

Butterbean is a great example here. As a superheavyweight we don't rank Butterbean at all, he's a side show. Yet a 112 lb fighter with a knockout percentage as high as his would be knocking on the p4p door.

People talk about how great these little tiny guys are but they can't even knock each other out most of the time! Occaisonally you'll get a guy like Ricardo Lopez who can bang and knock his opponents out and he's regarded as a p4p great.

He's only knocking out 105 lb men! p4p a heavyweight hits MUCH harder. A heavyweight fighter lands a solid punch on another heavyweight fighter and it's pretty much game over.

A fly weight lands a solid punch on another fliyweight and it rarely does more than makes them blink.

That right there shows you that P4P heavyweights hit harder. They generate enough power in their 200 + lb body mass to knock out a 200 + lb fighter with one punch.

The vast majority of flyweights cannot generate enough power in their <110 lb frames to even knock another <110 lb man out with one punch.

Fighters like Valero are the exception. A fighter with real power.

[global]

Man this post is dumb thats why they call it -POUND FOR POUND-
which means that boxing EXPERTS who study the sport all came to the conclusion of which boxer is better then other boxer based on skill, speed power etc.. not based on who is bigger.
so if that was the case u r ranking butterbean higher than rafa Marquez because he is bigger an he could probably eat rafas weight in one dinner

Mr Twinky, you are every bit as idiotic as your name suggests.

If you read my posts at all you'd see that I'm arguing for a more accurate reflection of p4p talents not less.

Butterbean is a great example here. As a superheavyweight we don't rank Butterbean at all, he's a side show. Yet a 112 lb fighter with a knockout percentage as high as his would be knocking on the p4p door.

People talk about how great these little tiny guys are but they can't even knock each other out most of the time! Occaisonally you'll get a guy like Ricardo Lopez who can bang and knock his opponents out and he's regarded as a p4p great.

He's only knocking out 105 lb men! p4p a heavyweight hits MUCH harder. A heavyweight fighter lands a solid punch on another heavyweight fighter and it's pretty much game over.

A fly weight lands a solid punch on another fliyweight and it rarely does more than makes them blink.

That right there shows you that P4P heavyweights hit harder. They generate enough power in their 200 + lb body mass to knock out a 200 + lb fighter with one punch.

The vast majority of flyweights cannot generate enough power in their <110 lb frames to even knock another <110 lb man out with one punch.

Fighters like Valero are the exception. A fighter with real power.

I'm going to have to disagree with something, I thinkg at 200lbs it takes alot less real power to knock someone out, there is just so much weight a jaw can be cracked with regardless of your body weight. I might be wrong about that though. Many lower weight fighters have very good KO records in actuality though, its not fair to say the vast majority of flyweights can't knock out other flyweights.

[Kev]

Man this post is dumb thats why they call it -POUND FOR POUND-
which means that boxing EXPERTS who study the sport all came to the conclusion of which boxer is better then other boxer based on skill, speed power etc.. not based on who is bigger.
so if that was the case u r ranking butterbean higher than rafa Marquez because he is bigger an he could probably eat rafas weight in one dinner

Mr Twinky, you are every bit as idiotic as your name suggests.

If you read my posts at all you'd see that I'm arguing for a more accurate reflection of p4p talents not less.

Butterbean is a great example here. As a superheavyweight we don't rank Butterbean at all, he's a side show. Yet a 112 lb fighter with a knockout percentage as high as his would be knocking on the p4p door.

People talk about how great these little tiny guys are but they can't even knock each other out most of the time! Occaisonally you'll get a guy like Ricardo Lopez who can bang and knock his opponents out and he's regarded as a p4p great.

He's only knocking out 105 lb men! p4p a heavyweight hits MUCH harder. A heavyweight fighter lands a solid punch on another heavyweight fighter and it's pretty much game over.

A fly weight lands a solid punch on another fliyweight and it rarely does more than makes them blink.

That right there shows you that P4P heavyweights hit harder. They generate enough power in their 200 + lb body mass to knock out a 200 + lb fighter with one punch.

The vast majority of flyweights cannot generate enough power in their <110 lb frames to even knock another <110 lb man out with one punch.

Fighters like Valero are the exception. A fighter with real power.

I'm going to have to disagree with something, I thinkg at 200lbs it takes alot less real power to knock someone out, there is just so much weight a jaw can be cracked with regardless of your body weight. I might be wrong about that though. Many lower weight fighters have very good KO records in actuality though, its not fair to say the vast majority of flyweights can't knock out other flyweights.

You are probably right in a sense I guess in the way that it would be physically impossible for a heavyweight to be as fast as a flyweight, the laws of gravity just wouldn't allow for it.

But I do think that the smaller guys get credited more easily than the heavier weights.

Maybe not so much with bantamweights but under that how much competition can there really be? I would imagine you must have to scour pretty far and wide to find any opponent to fight if you weigh under 115 lbs, whereas if you weigh between 135 and 168 you will likely find far more competition, and as such it is only fair to conclude that rising to the top of the welterweight or middlewweight tree is a far greater acomplishment than being the undisputed flyweight world champ.

Ricardo Lopez is a case in point. He cleaned house at minimum weight beating up on 100 lb guys. Now let's be fair here, if you are a 100 lb pro fighter I would guess you break into the top 100 worldwide on your pro debut as how many 7 stone professional male athletes can there actually be?

And he knocked out 38 out of 51. An impressive ratio but these guys weighed under 110 lbs!
What's amazing is that some of these guys are 5 ft 5 or more, 5 ft 7 in some cases!

I'm 5 ft 7 and weigh 11 and a half stone. When I had cancer and at the point of virtual death I was a skeletal 8 and half stone.

Some of these guys are nearly my height and weigh 20 lbs less!

Sorry but knocking any one of them out doesn't mean jackshit.

[global]

I understand your arguement even if I don't agree completely with it. In most major competitive sports there is some kind of cutoff based upon natural physical ability based on your body, and you have to make that minimum in either athleticism or compensate with an abundance of ability. Boxing doesn't have a low end cut off but it does have a cutoff at the highend. Once you reach Heavyweight you can be going up against guys outweighing you by 100 lbs. Lower weight boxing may be doomed to be only appreciated by hardcore fans with the exception of some major event. With a serious name you are like an NBA or NFL team, people tend to get behind you and you fight other names (teams) At lower weights its more like the Olympics to the casual fan, you get what you consider a big fight or novelty fight once or twice a decade, even when people pick sides in these fights the casual fan has no frame of reference and just picks who they want based not on what they have seen from the fighter before but something like I share the same ethnic background as the fighter or he seems like a nice guy. Things like the Olympics will always have a spot in our society but can you imagine all of the people who watch the Olympics every 4 years really watching those types of events weekly throughout the year?

My problem with the lower weight classes when I was younger had to do with things being to big not too small, like power or serious competition as some problems people have mentioned. Their heads always creeped me out, big ass bobble heads on little bodies gave me the same chill as those crazy looking aliens on Unsolved Mysteries.

[Kev]

My problem with the lower weight classes when I was younger had to do with things being to big not too small, like power or serious competition as some problems people have mentioned. Their heads always creeped me out, big a** bobble heads on little bodies gave me the same chill as those crazy looking aliens on Unsolved Mysteries.

haha an excellent point I only wish I would have made it myself cc