Why does everybody overate Hagler so much on here?

[Taeth]

Taeth as much as a enjoy your comments I think you are showing your a** on this one.

I don't understand how? I'm saying he's an ATG, and that he beat some good fighters, and he was as complete a package as they came. However because in certain aspects such as speed some guys were still so much more superior than him that they would beat him because of a certain advantage that why he is overrated because he can't beat anyone at middleweight, and Leonard proved that.

Leonard didn't prove crap. Leonard proved that he could wait until Hagler had been through one war to many, throw ineffective, weak shoeshine punches, and steal a fight. In that fight, Hagler beat Hagler. Hagler didn't fight a smart enough or active enough fight, and he still won the fight IMO by one or two rounds. He let Ray steal that one, bottom line, and if they would have fought before those battles and age took the edge of Hagler, Ray would only proved the could count light on the ceiling.

But as usual, Taeth, you have a good point point mixed into your madness. Hagler, though he had twice the heart, would have probably lost to Jones, prime for prime, though I would pick him to beat Hopkins.

I disagree that Hagler was through too many wars. He never tired in the fight, and he didn't look like any less of a fighter than in previous fights. I think he had his difficulties with Leonard's speed, and he opted to box for three rounds which he shouldn't have. Leonard comming back after 3 years off is something substantial, and why I put Leonard above all of the Fab Four. He beat them all.

I said Hopkins would give him a hard fight, but I don't think Hopkins would beat him. ALso I said that he was an ATG so what are people talking about me not saying he is. He is the best middleweight who stayed at the weight ever.

Pride of Boston wants to know when Hearns buckled Hagler? In the very first round with his first right hand I believe which was the one that broke his hand. Skyler that was my only excuse for him, and I have stated no other ones have I? It seems funny that with one punch he could almost bring Hagler down yet after that he couldn't keep Hagler off him.. it doesn't add up.

What have I said that was so outrageous? THat he doesn't have the chin to take Peter's punch or that he couldn't beat Leonard?

Dude, quit while you're behind, you're now simply spewing bullsh!t

Explain what BS I am spewing. People are trying to say that I'm saying Hagler isn't an ATG, and he doesn't deserve credit, but I just don't think he beats everyone, and has the best chin of all times.

[smashcrusher]

Taeth as much as a enjoy your comments I think you are showing your a** on this one.

I don't understand how? I'm saying he's an ATG, and that he beat some good fighters, and he was as complete a package as they came. However because in certain aspects such as speed some guys were still so much more superior than him that they would beat him because of a certain advantage that why he is overrated because he can't beat anyone at middleweight, and Leonard proved that.

Leonard didn't prove crap. Leonard proved that he could wait until Hagler had been through one war to many, throw ineffective, weak shoeshine punches, and steal a fight. In that fight, Hagler beat Hagler. Hagler didn't fight a smart enough or active enough fight, and he still won the fight IMO by one or two rounds. He let Ray steal that one, bottom line, and if they would have fought before those battles and age took the edge of Hagler, Ray would only proved the could count light on the ceiling.

But as usual, Taeth, you have a good point point mixed into your madness. Hagler, though he had twice the heart, would have probably lost to Jones, prime for prime, though I would pick him to beat Hopkins.

I disagree that Hagler was through too many wars. He never tired in the fight, and he didn't look like any less of a fighter than in previous fights. I think he had his difficulties with Leonard's speed, and he opted to box for three rounds which he shouldn't have. Leonard comming back after 3 years off is something substantial, and why I put Leonard above all of the Fab Four. He beat them all.

I said Hopkins would give him a hard fight, but I don't think Hopkins would beat him. ALso I said that he was an ATG so what are people talking about me not saying he is. He is the best middleweight who stayed at the weight ever.

Pride of Boston wants to know when Hearns buckled Hagler? In the very first round with his first right hand I believe which was the one that broke his hand. Skyler that was my only excuse for him, and I have stated no other ones have I? It seems funny that with one punch he could almost bring Hagler down yet after that he couldn't keep Hagler off him.. it doesn't add up.

What have I said that was so outrageous? THat he doesn't have the chin to take Peter's punch or that he couldn't beat Leonard?

Dude, quit while you're behind, you're now simply spewing bullsh!t

Explain what BS I am spewing. People are trying to say that I'm saying Hagler isn't an ATG, and he doesn't deserve credit, but I just don't think he beats everyone, and has the best chin of all times.

Big H already explained the nonsense analogy you tried to make in regards to Toney taking Sam Peter's punch, as if Toney was still weighing 160 when he stepped in the ring for that heavyweight bout You can make an argument that there are fighters who have as good a chin as Marvin, but no one had a better chin.

[LegendBoxing65]

I agree Marvin had a great chin. He took Hearns clean punches and Mugabi's clean punches. Those two guys were the hardest hitters at middleweight in the 80s. It is a good thing Marvin retired when he did since he would have taken more punches as he got older and he wouldn't have been knocked out, he would have just been punched alot and that would have taken a toll on him.