Where does Margrito stand in the welterwieght divison

[donnydarkoIRL]

Yo HitmanDonny,you've been to some Margarito fights?!? Which ones?

And I didn't say you're not allowed to speak hypothetically,go back and read it with your eyes open. And you're saying Margarito win's have been over smaller guys,again... So ALL of PW's wins at WW are not as impressive because he's bigger? And even if you said Tony was a bad fighter,I couldn't care less,everyone is entitled to their opinion but when statements are lacking in validity,that's what I find annoying. Dude,your points don't even make sense!

I could see Margarito at #4 or 5 or even 6 and see valid arguments being made, what I don't understand is why he doesn't move up to 154, he has the build to be stronger there, and there isn't nearly the competition at 147.

I mean really who's left at 154?

Cory Spinks
Vernon Forrest
Joel Julio
Carlos Baldomir
Jamie Moore
Sechew Powell

He would have a great chance of beating most of those guys easily.
I've never seen him fight against a slick boxer, so I don't know how
he would do against Spinks.
Forrest wouldn't be able to bring it.
Against Julio it would be a repeat of his fight against Cintron.
Against Baldomir, his courage and durability wouldn't match up to Margarito's activity
Against Moore again the volume would be too much.
Sechew Powell would be an entertaining fight, but Margarito should be able to take it quick.

Hey KS,you know your my brother BUT you're so way off here!! Why is Margarito going to move to 154 when:

147 is his weight class

The bigger names are at 147

There is more $$$$ to be made at 147

He just made his highest figure in his career at 147

And he has shown he can hang with some of the best at 147.

PW and Kermit have the build to be stronger at 154 too....I'm just not understanding this whole Margarito to move up logic,it's senseless imo. The ONLY reason he should move up is if he cannot make weight.

I was in the Arizona a couple time in 2003 and i managed to catch him fight Maurice Brantley n the dude Hercules Ki...whats his name.
I'm not dealing with hypothetical situations here firstly
I must be a be seriously paranoid and delusional if this statement isn't condemning me for speaking hypothetically.
What im trying to illustrate to you El Gamo is the fact that Margarito beats opponents by using what he has, his size. He out muscles them. Now here is my main point. When You take away his size advantage and his ability to rough opponents up he has very little to compensate. In other words, when fighting a fighter unaffected by his size his limitations as a boxer are exposed.

As for the fact that you find my posts annoying due to lack of "validity" id like u you back that up. I feel i have tried to reinforce all of my points. If my posts don't make sense why do you disagree so vehemently.
Is it because you feel i'm wrong or is it because your'e trying to discredit them so you don't have to argue against them?

[El Gamo]

Hercules Kyvelos is the name. And no,you misinterpret. I said I do not deal with the hypothetical scenarios you were alluding to. Me. If you think his size only wins fights,again,I don't think you know much about him.

Take away his size,what about his toughness? His ability to take a punch? His best attribute which is his stamina?His awkward style? He gives up his size by fighting on the inside too much. He gives up his size by not using the jab enough.

Anyone who has seen alot of Margarito knows this which is why I questioned how many fights you had seen and the validity of your points. Kyvelos was 5 10/5 11,Cintron was roughly the same,Margarito is 5 11 at best.

And no one has "exposed" him thus far. He lost close decisions to Santos and Williams.. You have not enforced your points in any way shape or form. I've used examples. I disagree so vehemently because you're talking nonsense about one of my favourite fighters.

I've exposed your points,I'm not going to debate for the sake of debating. I've used examples and facts. You;ve used terms such as "rough ko's,expose,Margarito at this stage of his career will never reach the upper echelon of the welterweight division again"

All statements which have no evidence,no basis on fact. If he's still top 5 WW,just lost a close fight and beaten 2 of the other top contenders and by your own admission,has the style to "Possibly" beat Cotto,how will he "never reach the upper echelons again"??

I have nothing else to say on the matter.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Toughness, ability to take punch both related to size.
Margarito's Record: 34-5-0 24 K0,s
Been the distance 10 times. Distance 4 rds twice Distance 6 rds once and lost. Distance 10rds 4 times lost twice. 12 rd distance three times lost one. 90% certain thats right. But if so it doesn't bode well for his stamina.
Size is not just implemented using the jab and outside fighting, i no that personally.
As for ur response to my Cotto comment, i feel it is possible Cotto gets beaten by Margarito not likely, Cotto is not long out of the lw's.
Say what you want, but there is only one fact here. Antonio Margarito is not among the top 5 for me anymore. For me it goes:
1)Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2)Shane Mosely
3)Kermit Cintron
4)Miguel Cotto
5)Paul Williams.

Perhaps if he were more active and fought a few more fringe contenders such as Collazo, jUDAH, uRKAL AND as i said if he beats williams i will give him props.

[El Gamo]

Toughness, ability to take punch both related to size.
Margarito's Record: 34-5-0 24 K0,s
Been the distance 10 times. Distance 4 rds twice Distance 6 rds once and lost. Distance 10rds 4 times lost twice. 12 rd distance three times lost one. 90% certain thats right. But if so it doesn't bode well for his stamina.
Size is not just implemented using the jab and outside fighting, i no that personally.
As for ur response to my Cotto comment, i feel it is possible Cotto gets beaten by Margarito not likely, Cotto is not long out of the lw's.
Say what you want, but there is only one fact here. Antonio Margarito is not among the top 5 for me anymore. For me it goes:
1)Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2)Shane Mosely
3)Kermit Cintron
4)Miguel Cotto
5)Paul Williams.

Perhaps if he were more active and fought a few more fringe contenders such as Collazo, jUDAH, uRKAL AND as i said if he beats williams i will give him props.

Toughness, ability to take punch both related to size.

Shane Mosley is a small WW and can take a punch,how is it related to his size?Cotto's tough and only 5ft 7? How is that related to size? You'll find it's called heart in boxing.

Margarito's Record: 34-5-0 24 K0,s
Been the distance 10 times. Distance 4 rds twice Distance 6 rds once and lost. Distance 10rds 4 times lost twice. 12 rd distance three times lost one. 90% certain thats right. But if so it doesn't bode well for his stamina.

I don't need you to regurgitate Margarito's record. You are questioning the stamina of a guy who threw 1600 punches v Joshua Clottey,the record at WW....That tells me alot.



Size is not just implemented using the jab and outside fighting, i no that personally

Erm..ok...


1)Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2)Shane Mosely
3)Kermit Cintron
4)Miguel Cotto
5)Paul Williams.

Having Cotto and Williams and Margarito for that fact behind Cintron tells me alot about your boxing knowledge. Say what you want but your points are weak,as I have clearly illustrated. Using random statistics does not make your points more valid.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Toughness, ability to take punch both related to size.

Shane Mosley is a small WW and can take a punch,how is it related to his size?Cotto's tough and only 5ft 7? How is that related to size? You'll find it's called heart in boxing.

Margarito's Record: 34-5-0 24 K0,s
Been the distance 10 times. Distance 4 rds twice Distance 6 rds once and lost. Distance 10rds 4 times lost twice. 12 rd distance three times lost one. 90% certain thats right. But if so it doesn't bode well for his stamina.

I don't need you to regurgitate Margarito's record. You are questioning the stamina of a guy who threw 1600 punches v Joshua Clottey,the record at WW....That tells me alot.



Size is not just implemented using the jab and outside fighting, i no that personally

Erm..ok...


1)Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2)Shane Mosely
3)Kermit Cintron
4)Miguel Cotto
5)Paul Williams.

Having Cotto and Williams and Margarito for that fact behind Cintron tells me alot about your boxing knowledge. Say what you want but your points are weak,as I have clearly illustrated. Using random statistics does not make your points more valid.

My boxing Knoledge is weak...Hmmm. Thanks.

What is the average size of a welterweight at the moment?
5'8"-5'9"? Margarito a naturally bigger man at 5'11" and proportinatally built is naturally bigger than his opposition, he would be much more uniform at 154. A natural advantage. A smaller man hits a bigger man, a bigger man hits a smaller man, naturally the smaller man is more likely to fall. That is a Fact.

1600 punches is quite a record, at any weight, in any era. Yet he threw 1600 punches and won on a UD? If he was as tough as you say would he not have Ko'd Clottey? If Cintron threw 1600 im sure he'd ko someone!

As for ur disbelief on the size/inside fighter theory this is easy. Ali used to use his height in close to lean on opponents, tire them and prevent them punching. Lennox Lewis Ko punch the right uppercut was operated on the inside. I myself have been taught to utilise my height as an ADVANTAGE in close.
Actually i didn even have to argue that with you, u were criticising margarito for fighting inside. U no why he fights inside? Because he's not compotent enough a boxer to stay on the outside, thats how Williams beat him.

Cintron has done more and earned my respect thats why he's up there.

Usay uv shown my points are weak as uv "clearly illustrated" yet u have offered NO STATISTICS, NO FACTS and NO REAL EVIDENCE as to why i am wrong.
All u have offered is ur opinions. And you no what? U may be posting here longer than me, but Your Opinion alone is not enough to over rule mine and certainly not enough to over rule statistics.
U have clearly illustrated NOTHINGexcept for the fact that you , like an old champion, are over rated and too stubborn just to give up.

[El Gamo]

You're reverting to personal insults shows your petulance and your frustration at being bettered. Not to worry.

"Cintron has done more " - that sums up your posts in this thread perfectly. Have a good day.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Don't feel i was bettered at all.
And if we are to sum up your posts-well u really haven't said anything at all.

[LEGION]

Not trying to agitate anyone, but Cintron isn't even close to Margarito until he avenges that pitiful beating Tony gave him. The dude quit on 2 legs and looked like he was crying, and I have yet to see Tony pull a stunt like that. IMO he would have to really beat down Tony to come close to erasing that embarassing performance. Just like Duran quitting on 2 legs with SRL; that is something I will always remember Cintron for, no matter what he does in the future. Tony might not be the slickest, fastest guy ever, but he is going to fight you like it's his life on the line, and will take a beating without crying about it.

[The Rookie Fan]

Hmm,I thought I had posted on this but I can't find it. Guess I did something wrong.

Anyways here it goes again.

IMHO he should be the number 1 contender for all the belts. In a division so jammed packed like this one, being the number 1 contender actually means something.....Imagine that.

[El Gamo]

Not trying to agitate anyone, but Cintron isn't even close to Margarito until he avenges that pitiful beating Tony gave him. The dude quit on 2 legs and looked like he was crying, and I have yet to see Tony pull a stunt like that. IMO he would have to really beat down Tony to come close to erasing that embarassing performance. Just like Duran quitting on 2 legs with SRL; that is something I will always remember Cintron for, no matter what he does in the future. Tony might not be the slickest, fastest guy ever, but he is going to fight you like it's his life on the line, and will take a beating without crying about it.

Totally agree and even then,Margarito has beaten far far far better fighters than Kermit. People tend to forget Margarito holds wins over 6Heads,Diaz,Martinez,Clottey,Kermit and a few other good fighters. That;s far better than the guys Kermit has beaten.

Hmm,I thought I had posted on this but I can't find it. Guess I did something wrong.

Anyways here it goes again.

IMHO he should be the number 1 contender for all the belts. In a division so jammed packed like this one, being the number 1 contender actually means something.....Imagine that.

LOL,what do you mean bro? How is he going to be number 1 for all the belts?

[Mr140]

Who has kermit beat to put him ahead of margrito hitman that all i am going to say cause it does not make since

[amat]

All Cintron has that Margarito doesn't is a belt. No way he should be ranked above Margarito unless Margarito loses another one or Cintron gets a really good win.

Anyways, Margarito I think is done as a top 5 guy in the division. His aura of invincibility is gone, and even if he avenges his loss to Williams (which I don't think he will) then he is still a guy that isn't really known by the national crowds and someone who no one but possibly Cotto (and only if he loses) is going to want to deal with.

I think he'll come back, work his way up to a rematch with Cintron and will peak there. Just don't see him being in many more big fights.

[Mr140]

I disagree if he wins Williams i think he will get a shot at Cotto and i think then he will get another big run at the top or maybe if he does beat Cotto move up and avenge his loss that he had at light middle weight but he has to beat Williams for that to happen i think Margarito can do but who knows i like Cotto but i not sure how good he will do i will be sold on him if he beats Shane i feel he will be the number one welter weight because Shane to me is a bigger win then Hatton in my eyes for Floyd so for welter i have Cotto ahead of Floyd for welterweight division

[Mr140]

Because at welter the only wins mayweather has is zab and baldimar so if cotto wins a against shane i think he be number one in the welter weigth division if he did not understand what i said in the post before just to fix any confusing you had in that post

[frozensolid_702]

All Cintron has that Margarito doesn't is a belt. No way he should be ranked above Margarito unless Margarito loses another one or Cintron gets a really good win.

You are 100% correct.

Cintron is not rated too high by anybody that knows what they're talking about.


In fact, even Zab Judah is still rated higher than Cintron according to the latest rankings from Ring Magazine.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html