Gene Tunney vs Joe Louis

El Kabong · 12-06-2007 10:56 PM

...Willard is out of the discussion other than that was DEMPSEY'S PRIME....so he's saying the Dempsey that whipped Willar would have whipped Tunney.

Joe Louis looked past Billy Conn and in the rematch it showed

**Master** · 12-12-2007 10:09 AM

Hitmandonny I know your trying to put a case for Tunney, he was very good and fit boxer but not a great.

**donnydarkoIRL** · 12-12-2007 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Master

Hitmandonny I know your trying to put a case for Tunney, he was very good and fit boxer but not a great.

There are many that would disagree.
In modern boxing he would be a Light Heavy.
I feel he could be great at that weight.

**Master** · 12-12-2007 10:26 AM

Agreed at that weight, although Ezzard Charles is my greatest light heavy and I am sure Archie Moore, Foster and Spinks could beat him, so Rocky would be the greatest Cruiserweight I believe he beats Evander at that weight.

**donnydarkoIRL** · 12-12-2007 10:39 AM

You know, I'm always left puzzled by Marciano...
How good was he?
Was his relentless style and exceptional conditioning enough to compensate for his lack of size and skill against the elite heavies

Would he have been able for Evander, the size differential wouldn't be so much an issue as James Toney proved...but would Marciano meet a boxer of that size and that nature (one of the biggest hearts and most tested chins in boxing) and still keep gunnng it from first to last bell?

I'm really not sure!

**Master** · 12-12-2007 10:49 AM

At cruiserweight he may have done, but once Holyfield was the heavyweight no. Remember Qawi nearly beat Holyfield, and Marciano hit harder.

**donnydarkoIRL** · 12-12-2007 10:55 AM

Marciano was a hellacious puncher, no question about that at all!
He also had a tremendous heart (as we saw in Charles marciano 1, when his nose literally split by an elbow, clogged up with blood to the point that he couldn't breathe, marciano ordered the corner to pull apart the skin at the cut so his nasal passage was open to and he could get air.)
but he was incredibly short in comparison to many and with his lack of active defense and skill I'm not sure could he get into holyfield and he could be picked apart at range.

On the other hand he could get in and wear him down to the body..

**greynotsoold** · 12-12-2007 08:34 PM

This is a really good thread...A couple of thoughts.
First, Tunney was a very underrated puncher, and, possibly, one of the smartest and most disciplined fighters in history. I've read where the quality of Liston's jab was established by saying it was "nearly as good as Tunney's." In the accounts of his fights you read often of his tremendous body-punching skills, and he would NEVER have done what Conn did in the first Louis fight. If Schmeling was clever enough to hit Louis all night with that right, Tunney would figure him out,too. But not in that same way because Louis had that figured by the end of the firsat Schmeling fight, it was just too late for him. Schmeling hit harder than Tunney, at least, I think, with his right, but he was not nearly as thoughtful in the ring. And, not to speak bad of Louis, but the rap against him was always that he was robotic in the ring. He had trouble adjusting.
Marciano was pretty damn good. Goldman always said that, if Marciano had started boxing at 12 instead of at 25, he'd have been the greatest ever. He said his biggest problem was in not trying to teach him too much. His power and his stamina and determination should be unquestioned, and, if you really watch his fights, he's a bit more clever and harder to hit than given credit for. This is where I think he would do well against most modern heavyweights: he advanced with his weight back on his right foot, prodding with his left. Being short and in a crouch, his weight being back made him a bit harder to hit then a guy like Frazier who came forward leaning over his left6 leg while looking for the hook. Marciano's stance would make a guy reach for him.
Think, for a second, about a modern day giant of a heavy trying to jab the 5' 10" Marciano while he he crouched back like that. He can't reach him, unless he reaches for him, because there isn't one of these guys smart enough to get low and jab like Foster did against Tiger. When the tall guy reaches and jabs down, what punch does he get hit with? That winging right that was Marciano's best punch. I submit that his lack of height and his style would present problems to today's super heavies that would only be matched by their inability to deal with his work ethic.