60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.

[JT Rock]

Fighters that could have beat Ali in the 60's on any given night

Holmes
Louis
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Frazier
Any one who says different is caught up in the romance of yester year.

[ICB]

Fighters that could have beat Ali in the 60's on any given night

Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Frazier
Any one who says different is caught up in the romance of yester year.

You can add.

Bowe
Foreman = Call me crazy but Ali in 60s was not as smart as 70s version, and he got caught a lot by lesser fighters i think Foreman has a good chance.

[DaxxKahn]

Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.

Thats not an unreasonable assumption....Lewis is without a doubt in the top 5 or 6 all time heavyweights...The guys had it all...Size, Power and most of all he would box...not too many large HWts in history can claim the boxing skills Lewis can,,,,Also Lewis could out and out just assult a guy....I mean attck a guy and punish him to no end...Lennox is one of the best finishers I have ever seen....and contrary to popular belief his chin was pretty damn solid.....Yes he was starched twice by 1 shot KO's but lets face it those shots could have KO'd any fighter...McCall and Rahman at that time in their careers were very hard hitters and Lennox was out of shape so the combination of the two equaled disaster...In the rematches it was made very clear those two both just happened to catch Lewis at the right moment...99 out of 100 times they lose to him......

He beat everyone who was anyone during his reign and as I have said before when Lennox was champion there were no doubts on who the REAL HW champion was.....

Lennox Lewis when he fought at 240lbs was a good as any fighter can possibly be

[ICB]

Lennox Lewis for me beats any other Heavyweight champion in a best of 3 fight senario.
You may not agree but thats my opinion.

Thats not an unreasonable assumption....Lewis is without a doubt in the top 5 or 6 all time heavyweights...The guys had it all...Size, Power and most of all he would box...not too many large HWts in history can claim the boxing skills Lewis can,,,,Also Lewis could out and out just assult a guy....I mean attck a guy and punish him to no end...Lennox is one of the best finishers I have ever seen....and contrary to popular belief his chin was pretty damn solid.....Yes he was starched twice by 1 shot KO's but lets face it those shots could have KO'd any fighter...McCall and Rahman at that time in their careers were very hard hitters and Lennox was out of shape so the combination of the two equaled disaster...In the rematches it was made very clear those two both just happened to catch Lewis at the right moment...99 out of 100 times they lose to him......

He beat everyone who was anyone during his reign and as I have said before when Lennox was champion there were no doubts on who the REAL HW champion was.....

Lennox Lewis when he fought at 240lbs was a good as any fighter can possibly be

The only thing i didn't like about Lewis was that he got lazy in fights, and he seemed to lose concentration. And he would get nailed with big shots.

[Wayne]

If it weren't for Ocean's 11 there would be no such thing as a Hasim Rahman. Lewis was winning by my account before Rahman kayoed him.

[Trainer Monkey]

What nobody here is thinking about
Your all
A) Being brit homers
B) The title of the thread is 60's Ali,he didnt fight Frazier or Foreman in the 60's,so your judging the Ali of the title thread,on the footage youve seen of Ali of the 70's after a 3 year layoff.Thats like trying to say the Tyson who fought Jesse Ferguson,is exactly the same as the one who lost to Lennox Lewis. If that was the case,lets dig up Joe Louis and see if he can re-win the title.
Lewis's footwork was plodding,and can not see the chin that couldnt survive Oliver "Tears" McCall surviving Ali.
Bowe,you could make a case for a motivated Bowe,but after he won the title,you couldnt get the words motivated and Bowe in to the same sentance with a forklift
Both fighters regardless,rely on cutting off the ring,that was more or less impossable with that version of Ali
Ali's only real flaw was underestimating guys,and playing,not getting dropped,or outworked. He could have dropped Patterson at any time he wanted,but he screwed around with him.Even Ali Mach 2 could have dropped Wepner easily early on,but wanted to get in some rounds,but unlike say Chuvallo or Bonavena,or Foley(etc),and I give Chuck all the credit on earth for this,he was so happy to still be standing it gave him an extra gear.But even Wepner realised in the last couple of rounds that Ali was just fooling with him,and he'd just gotten lucky on the knockdown.I often wonder looking at Ali's face when he gets up if he was just torturing the guy because he was mad about it. Ali definitly could be like that so its possible.
Like it or not,we still discuss and compare to Ali,even though he hasnt been able to hold a cup of coffee for over 20 years now,is he was just that damned good.Somehow you cant seem to get a very rousing 4 page Ken Norton debate going

[ICB]

What nobody here is thinking about
Your all
A) Being brit homers
B) The title of the thread is 60's Ali,he didnt fight Frazier or Foreman in the 60's,so your judging the Ali of the title thread,on the footage youve seen of Ali of the 70's after a 3 year layoff.Thats like trying to say the Tyson who fought Jesse Ferguson,is exactly the same as the one who lost to Lennox Lewis. If that was the case,lets dig up Joe Louis and see if he can re-win the title.
Lewis's footwork was plodding,and can not see the chin that couldnt survive Oliver "Tears" McCall surviving Ali.
Bowe,you could make a case for a motivated Bowe,but after he won the title,you couldnt get the words motivated and Bowe in to the same sentance with a forklift
Both fighters regardless,rely on cutting off the ring,that was more or less impossable with that version of Ali
Ali's only real flaw was underestimating guys,and playing,not getting dropped,or outworked. He could have dropped Patterson at any time he wanted,but he screwed around with him.Even Ali Mach 2 could have dropped Wepner easily early on,but wanted to get in some rounds,but unlike say Chuvallo or Bonavena,or Foley(etc),and I give Chuck all the credit on earth for this,he was so happy to still be standing it gave him an extra gear.But even Wepner realised in the last couple of rounds that Ali was just fooling with him,and he'd just gotten lucky on the knockdown.I often wonder looking at Ali's face when he gets up if he was just torturing the guy because he was mad about it. Ali definitly could be like that so its possible.
Like it or not,we still discuss and compare to Ali,even though he hasnt been able to hold a cup of coffee for over 20 years now,is he was just that damned good.Somehow you cant seem to get a very rousing 4 page Ken Norton debate going

Being brit homers

[The Fightfan]

Well let me ask you guys something.When Sonny Liston was in out of prison. One of the stories was he took on 5 policemen with billyclubs all of them winding up and cracking him in the head.Now how can Ali do a little old step'n'fetch and have him rolling all over the canvas and don't say a blinding shot.There is a reason that second fight was in a high school gymnasium.There is a reason also that Sonny Liston died mysteriously by a heroin overdose when he did everything in his power to stay away from people like that.Ali was beloved and very protected I'll keep it at that.

[Wayne]

Uhh, I don't know nothin', I ain't seen nothin'

[Trainer Monkey]

Well let me ask you guys something.When Sonny Liston was in out of prison. One of the stories was he took on 5 policemen with billyclubs all of them winding up and cracking him in the head.Now how can Ali do a little old step'n'fetch and have him rolling all over the canvas and don't say a blinding shot.There is a reason that second fight was in a high school gymnasium.There is a reason also that Sonny Liston died mysteriously by a heroin overdose when he did everything in his power to stay away from people like that.Ali was beloved and very protected I'll keep it at that.

You kidding?
Liston had track marks all over him,and was doing leg breaking work for years

[The Fightfan]

I think you are confused my friend.Sonny always talked bad about drug dealers and users ask his wife or just read is autobiography.Hell even ask Foreman how much Liston hated druggers.

[Tysonbruno]

Prime Tyson

[El Kabong]

Fighters that could have beat Ali in the 60's on any given night

Holmes
Louis
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Frazier
Any one who says different is caught up in the romance of yester year.

I would add Wlad and Vitali not because they are the greatest ever but they are hella big, athletic, and they punch hard.....Vitali was also crazy awkward.

And Marciano and Shavers....they always had a puncher's chance and anyone can be KO'd even Ali, he just never got hit correctly (minus Cooper and Frazier) and no one followed up on him....more a credit to him than a discredit to his opponents


And yeah Bowe moved very well and worked hard and Foreman would give him trouble when he was young and cocky too.


I think someone like Roy Jones Jr. would be difficult for him to fight too although RJ was mighty small for a heavyweight he was quick and packed a punch, he was also better defensively than say a Bob Foster

[THE THIRD MAN]

One thing is for sure Lewis wouldn't have beaten him! There appears to be a trend in this subject to question Ali's close decisions or gifts. Granted he had a close call with Jones but how old was he? 21! Heavyweights today don't even start until they are in their mid twenties and mature in their mid thirties!
Cooper knocked him down with a perfect left hook, so was big Henry a bum? No he wasn't, he was a bloody good fighter at HW for many years. Lewis would have lost a lopsided Ud against a prime 60's Ali.
Every champion has a close call or two, Lewis copped a bad one against Holyfield in their first fight but got a gift in their second.

[ICB]

One thing is for sure Lewis wouldn't have beaten him! There appears to be a trend in this subject to question Ali's close decisions or gifts. Granted he had a close call with Jones but how old was he? 21! Heavyweights today don't even start until they are in their mid twenties and mature in their mid thirties!
Cooper knocked him down with a perfect left hook, so was big Henry a bum? No he wasn't, he was a bloody good fighter at HW for many years. Lewis would have lost a lopsided Ud against a prime 60's Ali.
Every champion has a close call or two, Lewis copped a bad one against Holyfield in their first fight but got a gift in their second.

Cooper was never top Heavyweight fighter he was good Domestic/European level he lost to all of the top boys in brutal fashion. And what makes it even worse is that Ali should of been DQ in the fight with Cooper

Lewis vs Holyfield 2 was a very close fight that i had Lewis edging but you can't compare that to flat out gift decisions that Ali got like, Norton vs Ali 3 a lot of people consider that a robbery so do i, Young vs Ali most ringside experts had Young winning so did i. He also got a gift against Shavers as well. And you mention Ali was only young when he fought Doug Jones but he won the title off Liston 1 year after that fight, so he wasn't far from his prime.

In fact Ali fought Jones, then Cooper, then Liston. So he was very close to his peak.