Who's gonna be President?

[El Kabong]

The National Election usually takes on a different form from the primaries.....I think Obama has a ton of momentum right now but it's going to tighten up when he's going against a republican instead of a democrat

[Kirkland Laing]

I'll reply to this when I have the time.

[OumaFan]

And the Democrats have officially started to self destruct.

Great.

[Kirkland Laing]

KL you obviously have a hard time being subjective about politics, you don't even try to see the good and bad in even ONE Republican candidate....you call McCain an "old bastard", you call the conservative Christians "the taliban", and you call Romney an "infidel"


Let me break the race down for you subjectively in a calm clear way which describes the good assets of the GOP candidates and also their negatives....and I'll cover every last one of them....I'll even cover the Democrats without resorting to name calling and being childish and hopefully you'll return the favor and actually think about what I wrote and not be a bigot.

GOP

John McCain - PROS: He's the "maverick" of the party, he's a fighter, he served his country honorably and uses real life experience with his views on the War in Iraq and torture. He is very active in Congress and authors legislation (most congressmen just vote, McCain writes out Bills), and he's not afraid to work WITH Democrats (Ted Kennedy, Russel Feingold). CONS: the McCain-Kennedy "Amnesty Bill" didn't serve him well with the Republican base, he's older, and he's the "maverick" and he's willing to work with Democrats....while appealing to parts of the GOP and Independents it annoys the "base"

Mike Huckabee - PROS: believes in "verticle politics" (no left and right only UP or DOWN, a great way to think and I figured you KL would like him), 10 years as Governor the most Executive experience in the race, he ran a Democratic state as a Republican for 10 years, he's able to work with Democrats, he's got a good grasp on what the masses want, (he's basically the Republican John Edwards) he connects with the everyday working man and family and he's a "Washington outsider" which is codeword for he doesn't follow the Party on every single issue. CONS: not everyone knows him, he's easily pegged by the media and liberals as a crazy Southern Baptist (which he's really not, religion shouldn't factor in so much to how he's viewed), not everyone is sold on the fact that he's a Republican ie he has some qualities that don't fit the bill, like raising taxes for education and the support of the NEA as well as letting some criminals get pardoned

Mitt Romney - PROS: He's been elected in the BLUEST state of them all (Massachusetts) as a Republican, he has had success running companies as well as running a state (an Executive position, which means experience), He's from the northeast (a GOP trouble area, they need those states in order to win a National Election), he has experience of Presidential races, his father George Romney ran for President in 1964 (and the fact that George Romney was mormon never factored into the election and right now it's kind of a issue the media drummed up, nothing serious). CONS: he's a new convert to Pro-Life (not a big deal in my book but a HUGE deal for the "base"), he's from a super liberal state, he's flip flopped as you said which the Republicans don't appreciate.

Rudy Guliani - PROS: 9/11, 9/11, 9/11 he's all about getting the terrorists and a "Strong America" and yeah the base digs that, CONS: he's been married 3 times, he's anti-gun and pro-choice, and he's kind of shady....all bad things

Fred Thompson - PROS: He's an actor and Ronald Reagan was an actor....that's all there is for him, other than that CONS: he's just a tired old man who doesn't want to campaign

Ron Paul - PROS: he's an isolationist (which sounds good but is really naive), he's the farther right maverick when compared to McCain CONS: his followers are assholes and he gets good ideas across in a manner which makes him seem crazy


Democrats

Hillary Clinton - she's got experience (I don't know about 35 years worth, which is what she claims but she has experience) and someone to ask for help. The bad news is she reminds the other side of the Clinton era and they absolutely despise her, she has the highest negatives of any candidate.....that means people are just as likely to show up and vote AGAINST her as they are to show up to vote FOR someone.

Barrack Obama - He's young, charasmatic, full of energy, and he's got a very short history of politics (which means little dirt to dig up on him). No one can argue with the crowds he draws...he's the new John F. Kennedy....it will still be difficult for him in a National Election but the Democratic Primaries are his to lose right now.

John Edwards - he's a populist candidate, he's got a lot of Bill Clinton in him, he's out there working for the little guy and he's finding lots of support. However he was a HORRIBLE Senator for North Carolina he was hardly present at meetings and never drew up any legislation whiched earned him the nickname "Senator Who" in North Carolina.......he also has a mansion in North Carolina.....one that raised the price of land in his neighborhood and this eventually forced his neighbor to move.....not too good for the "people's candidate".

It's incredible how much wrong stuff you can manage to write in so few words. It's just incredible how wrong you can be. I could spend an hour writing stuff just off the top of my head explaining how wrong this all is, but I only have time to do a little, so I'll explain John McCain, and I could write three times more about him :


Mc Cain isn't a maverick at all. When McCain broke with his party to support campaign finance reform or a patients' bill of rights, he was backing positions that were popular with the electorate. Ditto for fuel efficiency standards and an end to torture. In fact, nearly all of McCain's "maverick" positions have been carefully crafted to appeal to the broad middle of the country.

In other words, they weren't maverick positions at all. They only seemed that way when the comparison point was the right wing of the Republican Party.

He's the biggest flip flopper ever apart from undisputed world flip-flop champion George W Bush.

He called Jerry Falwell an agent of intolerance to boost his "maverick" image then went begging for forgiveness when he needed GOP votes for these primaries, giving the commencement address at Jerry's diploma mill.

Same with tax cuts. The "maverick" opposed them to boost his image, now he's saying they should be made permanent.

He's an arch-bullshitter, a total hypocrite, an outright phony. An old bastard, the oldest bastard ever to run for president. And hilariously, he's probably the most electable GOP candidate.

[1-hit Wonder]

Lyle when you step back from your southern gun-tootin soapbox you can produce some damn fine political critique CC

Good balanced run down on the candidates there, a lot of people in the UK dont know much about John Mccain who's not your typical conservative. im no republican, not by a very long way, but Mcain sticks to his beliefs and has done a lot to try and rid Congress of lobbyists and pork-barrel politics in general.

Just in people Mcain has taken the republican N. Hampshire primary and CLINTON ( ) has taken the Democratic one, gotta say in really suprised Obama didnt win. This makes the race even more open.

[El Kabong]

Thank you 1-hitWonder, CC ....I am glad someone took the time to actually read all that.


Let me break some stuff down for KL who is obviously unable or unwilling to learn FACTS about the Republican candidates especially John McCain.

You seem to think that republicans can't have positions without being "positions have been carefully crafted to appeal to the broad middle of the country".......and on top of that WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH APPEALING TO THE MAJORITY OF THE NATION?!?!?!

McCain is against torture because he has been through it and been forced to admit things that were wrong....7 years in the Hanoi Hilton at least to me means that he has REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE IN THIS MATTER unlike any other candidate.

Yes he spoke at Falwell's school really that's the only thing I have seen him really change his mind about.

He has supported the war, he has supported the surge from day 1 he has never faltered on it, though he has thought that it was mishandled by Rumsfeld and he was right.

McCain opposed the tax cuts mainly because you can't have a tax cut without first having a cut in spending


KL I don't expect to ever win any arguments with you because obviously you're a leftist bigot

[El Kabong]

Also I believe Mike Huckabee is the easiest to elect for the Republicans....and he's not really a "Republican" he's more of a populist

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Also I believe Mike Huckabee is the easiest to elect for the Republicans....and he's not really a "Republican" he's more of a populist

plus he has that film.

[BoxingGorilla]

I'm for McCain or Rudy.

Lyle, I'm not sure why but Huckabee gives me the creeps.

[X]

While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the Golden Gate.

"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in," says the man.

"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the senator.

"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They're having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises...

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him. "Now it's time to visit heaven," he says.

So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realises it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.

"Well then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity."

The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: "Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell." So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell and the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above. The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder.

"I don't understand," stammers the senator. "When I was here previously, there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?"

The devil looks at him, smiles and says, "When you were last here, we were campaigning...... Today you have voted."

[Kirkland Laing]

Thank you 1-hitWonder, CC ....I am glad someone took the time to actually read all that.


Let me break some stuff down for KL who is obviously unable or unwilling to learn FACTS about the Republican candidates especially John McCain.

You seem to think that republicans can't have positions without being "positions have been carefully crafted to appeal to the broad middle of the country".......and on top of that WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH APPEALING TO THE MAJORITY OF THE NATION?!?!?!

McCain is against torture because he has been through it and been forced to admit things that were wrong....7 years in the Hanoi Hilton at least to me means that he has REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE IN THIS MATTER unlike any other candidate.

Yes he spoke at Falwell's school really that's the only thing I have seen him really change his mind about.

He has supported the war, he has supported the surge from day 1 he has never faltered on it, though he has thought that it was mishandled by Rumsfeld and he was right.

McCain opposed the tax cuts mainly because you can't have a tax cut without first having a cut in spending


KL I don't expect to ever win any arguments with you because obviously you're a leftist bigot

And now you're saying that I'm unable or unwilling to learn facts. I thought Americans didn't do irony?

McCain has flip flopped on torture, Iraq, you name it. I bet you can't find half a dozen issues where he hasn't flip flopped at some point in his career.

Here are some facts about flip flopping John McCain :


In 1999, McCain was in New Hampshire, campaigning for the GOP nomination as a moderate. He proclaimed himself a pro-life candidate, but told reporters that “in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade.” He explained that overturning Roe would force “women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” Yesterday, campaigning for the GOP nomination as a conservative, McCain said the opposite.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me ask one question about abortion. Then I want to turn to Iraq. You’re for a constitutional amendment banning abortion, with some exceptions for life and rape and incest.

MCCAIN: Rape, incest and the life of the mother. Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So is President Bush, yet that hasn’t advanced in the six years he’s been in office. What are you going to do to advance a constitutional amendment that President Bush hasn’t done?

MCCAIN: I don’t think a constitutional amendment is probably going to take place, but I do believe that it’s very likely or possible that the Supreme Court should — could overturn Roe v. Wade, which would then return these decisions to the states, which I support…. Just as I believe that the issue of gay marriage should be decided by the states, so do I believe that we would be better off by having Roe v. Wade return to the states.

The old McCain didn’t want an amendment and didn’t want Roe overturned. The new McCain completely disagrees with the old McCain.


* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but has since decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks. (Indeed, McCain has now hired Falwell’s debate coach.)

* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.

* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.

* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.

* McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.

* McCain gave up on his signature policy issue, campaign-finance reform, and won’t back the same provision he sponsored just a couple of years ago.

* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

* And now he’s both for and against overturning Roe v. Wade.


Here's a short film of arch-bullshitter McCain flip flopping on a bunch of issues :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90...entry_id=13035

[El Kabong]

McCain has NEVER flip flopped on torture I know that for a fact! And he hasn't flip flopped on Iraq either he has ONLY criticized the way the war has been run and the tactics used, not the fact that we are at war...he has ALWAYS supported the war and most especially the surge which has WORKED.

...the initial part of the Iraq war WAS easy...the nation building was the difficult part and yeah it still is difficult.

You accuse me of playing into Republican talking points, the Confederate Flag is a HUGE Republican BASE talking point in regards to John McCain....any answer he gave he was going to be wrong due to Rove and W.

John McCain was nearly kicked out of the Republican party, sure he had to do things he didn't like, for example like "cozy up to Jerry Falwell"....he gave a commensment speech, is there really something wrong in doing that?

Gay marraige is much like Roe v Wade it doesn't really matter who you elect it's not really going to change...he pandered to the base of the party EVERYONE does that....if you like Hillary Clinton you CANNOT preach to me about pandering


You're a close minded bigot and arguing with you does nothing....you don't like Republicans and if ANYONE has an 'R' infront of their name you immediately despise them and you don't try to understand their reasoning and you don't agree with ANYTHING they do.


So I guess you don't agree with Huckabee raising taxes to benefit education.....I guess you don't care that he's supported by the NEA.....I guess you don't care that John McCain wanted to help illegal immigrants become legal citizens of the US

And about torture....extremely seriously for a second....

John McCain was shot down in Vietnam in 1967 and was a P.O.W until 1973

he was offered a chance to go home early due to the military status of his Grandfather and his Father but he declined because the code of conduct says "first in, first out"....as a result he endured daily beatings, rope bindings, and was in solitary confinement for 2 years....and was a P.O.W for a total of 5 and a half years



But I guess all of that is ok since he's a Republican right....you fucking disgust me

[Kirkland Laing]

McCain has NEVER flip flopped on torture I know that for a fact! And he hasn't flip flopped on Iraq either he has ONLY criticized the way the war has been run and the tactics used, not the fact that we are at war...he has ALWAYS supported the war and most especially the surge which has WORKED.

...the initial part of the Iraq war WAS easy...the nation building was the difficult part and yeah it still is difficult.

You accuse me of playing into Republican talking points, the Confederate Flag is a HUGE Republican BASE talking point in regards to John McCain....any answer he gave he was going to be wrong due to Rove and W.

John McCain was nearly kicked out of the Republican party, sure he had to do things he didn't like, for example like "cozy up to Jerry Falwell"....he gave a commensment speech, is there really something wrong in doing that?

Gay marraige is much like Roe v Wade it doesn't really matter who you elect it's not really going to change...he pandered to the base of the party EVERYONE does that....if you like Hillary Clinton you CANNOT preach to me about pandering


You're a close minded bigot and arguing with you does nothing....you don't like Republicans and if ANYONE has an 'R' infront of their name you immediately despise them and you don't try to understand their reasoning and you don't agree with ANYTHING they do.


So I guess you don't agree with Huckabee raising taxes to benefit education.....I guess you don't care that he's supported by the NEA.....I guess you don't care that John McCain wanted to help illegal immigrants become legal citizens of the US

And about torture....extremely seriously for a second....

John McCain was shot down in Vietnam in 1967 and was a P.O.W until 1973

he was offered a chance to go home early due to the military status of his Grandfather and his Father but he declined because the code of conduct says "first in, first out"....as a result he endured daily beatings, rope bindings, and was in solitary confinement for 2 years....and was a P.O.W for a total of 5 and a half years



But I guess all of that is ok since he's a Republican right....you fucking disgust me

McCain said he was going to enforce certain interrogation standards then caved and let Bush do what he wanted.

He didn't tell people the Iraq war would be in stages, he just told them it would be easy. Then criticised know-nothings years later for telling people what he'd told them.

McCain is a flip flopping bullshitter and you're so blinded by your prejudices you can't accept it. You just can't deal with facts, can you?

[El Kabong]

No, EVERYONE said taking Iraq would be easy even with the minute force that we used


Was he asked about rebuilding the nation

NO

You infer what he means....he didn't imply anything in regards to rebuilding the nation....you just jumped to conclusions.

[El Gamo]

From this side of the pond,it looks like Obama.