Calzaghe or Jones Jr. Greatest SMW of all time

[killersheep]

So which one is greater at 168 and why?

Arguments for each

Calzaghe
Undefeated
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #3 p4p
Held IBF, WBO, WBA and WBC titles

Big wins at 168
Jeff Lacy (UD)
Mikkel Kessler (UD)

Record at 168: 35-0-0 (23 KOs) (Win %: 100%/ KO %:65.7%)

Opponents combined record: 783-176-23 (Win %: 79.7%)


Jones Jr.
Undefeated at 168
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #1 p4p
Held IBF title
Round 6 against Paz was probably the most dominant round in boxing history (3 knockdowns and Jones was not hit once)

Big Wins at 168
Vinny Pazienza (TKO 6)
James Toney (UD)

Record at 168: 13-0-0 (11 KOs) (Win %:100% / KO %: 84.6%)

Opponents combined record: 321-51-8 (Win %: 84.4%)


Others Mentioned
Sven Ottke

I will edit this as the debate unfolds

[Kev]

So which one is greater at 168 and why?

Calzaghe because he completely owned the weight class, Jones only fought there half a dozen times if I remember correctly

[NUCLEAR BULL]

if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to

[Fenster]

if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to

When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?

[NUCLEAR BULL]

if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to

When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?

get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND

[njackets]

if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to

When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?

get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND

So how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking Ottka? Cos thats what u implied! Sounds 2 me like he did'nt want 2 get robbed in Germany,like everybody did against Ottka,or any other German fighter! Funny how Kesslers names not been mentioned in the last few posts whan listing Joe's decent opponents! Nobodys comparing RJJ 2 Calzaghe talent wise,its about who did the better things at the weight,but that facts getting completly overlooked! Why let facts get in the way of a good fighter bash though!

[Fenster]

if you talk about calzaghe you have to talk about german legend sven ottka who made 21 world title defence at super middle and was undefeated just like joe, he's practicly the same as calzaghe except he held the much more recordnizied wba and ibf belts........he wanted a fight with joe to see who is the best but calzaghe turned it down, so in my opin you have to put him on the table.......... im not saying ottka is the best, but if joe is ranked that high then you must have ottka there to

When you make blatant lies like this do you think people will actually believe you?

get your facts straight buddy before calling someone a lier IM A BIT DISSAPOINTED A PERSON WITH YOUR REP JUMPS THE GUN SO QUICKLY FENSTER BUT I QUESS THESE THINGS HAPPEN TO US ALL MATE..........CALZAGHE EVEN MENTIONES IT IN A RING MAGAZINE INTERVIEW THAT OTTKA WANTED A FIGHT BUT IN GERMAN WHILE JOE WANTED IT IN WALES, THERE BOTH HOME FIGHTER YOU UNDERSTAND

OK Buster. As njackets said - how exactly does that mean Calzaghe was ducking powderpuff Ottke?

Ottke was making millions getting favourable decisions in Germany. Why would he fight Calzaghe?

Here's a few things for you -

BBC SPORT | Boxing | Ottke spurns Calzaghe

Even Ottke's trainer, Ulli Wegner, said Ottke DID NOT want to fight Calzaghe.

Whether you believe it or not here's a Warren quote - "We made two career high offers to Ottke's camp to fight in Germany, even though we'd seen what had happened with (Robin) Reid and (Charles) Brewer. Both were refused without any negotiation. That told me all I needed to know." - Frank Warren

[:::PSL:::]

I have to go with RJJr. Cuz that was his era. He was the #1 Ring p4p.

...Yeah, he made it to the top.

[Master]

The fact that Ottke name is even compared to Joe Galzaghe shows that he does not even compare to Roy Jones. Sure Joe holds an impressive record but Jones could have done all that if he wanted too, no Roy did far better and at his best he would beat Joe any day of the week.

[NUCLEAR BULL]

The fact that Ottke name is even compared to Joe Galzaghe shows that he does not even compare to Roy Jones. Sure Joe holds an impressive record but Jones could have done all that if he wanted too, no Roy did far better and at his best he would beat Joe any day of the week.

i'll second that.............prime jones v prime calzaghe.........roy wins everytime. 43 year old hopkins show joes no great

[CFH]

I voted Jones because even though Calzaghe obviously has spent more time at SMW and accumulated more belts, I feel that if they met at SMW when both were in their primes RJJ would win. I also feel that James Toney is a better fighter than anyone JC has fought, by defeating him RJJ has the best victory at the weight. Additionally, RJJ was considered to be the best P4P for many years, something JC has never achieved - while that is not Calzaghe's fault necessarily, if feel it is another factor in RJJ's favor.

[SweetPea]

Answering the question is simple as long as you clear up one issue...

What's more important, the length of the reign, or who was more dominant at the weight?

If it's all about the former, then the answer has to be Calzaghe. If it's the latter, then the answer has to be Jones, because the prime Jones would smoke the prime Calzaghe and Jones' win over Toney is more impressive than any win Calzaghe had at 168.

[*Starlet*]

Good thread

Joe Calzaghe

History will prove this

I would even rank Chong-Pal Park ahead of Jones in a list of all time great super-middleweights

[TitoFan]

So which one is greater at 168 and why?

Arguments for each

Calzaghe
Undefeated
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #3 p4p
Held IBF, WBO, WBA and WBC titles

Big wins at 168
Jeff Lacy (UD)
Mikkel Kessler (UD)

Record at 168: 35-0-0 (23 KOs) (Win %: 100%/ KO %:65.7%)

Opponents combined record: 783-176-23 (Win %: 79.7%)


Jones Jr.
Undefeated at 168
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #1 p4p
Held IBF title
Round 6 against Paz was probably the most dominant round in boxing history (3 knockdowns and Jones was not hit once)

Big Wins at 168
Vinny Pazienza (TKO 6)
James Toney (UD)

Record at 168: 13-0-0 (11 KOs) (Win %:100% / KO %: 84.6%)

Opponents combined record: 321-51-8 (Win %: 84.4%)


Others Mentioned
Sven Ottke

I will edit this as the debate unfolds

I must've repped you already, because I was unable to this time. But great poll, complete with good stats to compare from.

Anyway, I voted Roy Jones Jr. All respect to Joe and his record. But having seen them both on numerous occasions, I'd have to say I consider RJJ the better fighter at his peak. More speed, better boxing skills... and definitely more power (deceptively so, but more power). One thing I dont' like about Calzaghe is his tendency to throw pitty-pat punches during his flurries.

[bigragu]

So which one is greater at 168 and why?

Arguments for each

Calzaghe
Undefeated
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #3 p4p
Held IBF, WBO, WBA and WBC titles

Big wins at 168
Jeff Lacy (UD)
Mikkel Kessler (UD)

Record at 168: 35-0-0 (23 KOs) (Win %: 100%/ KO %:65.7%)

Opponents combined record: 783-176-23 (Win %: 79.7%)


Jones Jr.
Undefeated at 168
Ring #1 at 168
Ring #1 p4p
Held IBF title
Round 6 against Paz was probably the most dominant round in boxing history (3 knockdowns and Jones was not hit once)

Big Wins at 168
Vinny Pazienza (TKO 6)
James Toney (UD)

Record at 168: 13-0-0 (11 KOs) (Win %:100% / KO %: 84.6%)

Opponents combined record: 321-51-8 (Win %: 84.4%)


Others Mentioned
Sven Ottke

I will edit this as the debate unfolds

I would look at prime vs prime. RJJ was an absolute BEAST at 168! Sure he only had 12 fights there but he went on to bigger things. Don't see Joe C winning any HW title. RJJ flat out embarrassed people. So I gave my vote to RJJ.