Someone explain this to me (Floyd/Hatton weight issue)

[CGM]

Thats fine bud ... so we have different points of view you keep talking about Floyd who is awesome ... but as I keep saying its about Hatton for me ..Im not disputing who would win as Ive said all along it would still be Floyd but Hatton would fight a better fight

Look you aint changin my thinkin ... nor me yours so lets agree to disagree yeah ... then neither of us gets frustrated at going around in circles ok...

I respect your opinion as a fellow poster & thank you for it..

Of course I keep talking about Floyd, that is who Hatton was fighting. He is relevant because you claim he would have some kind of size advantage against Hatton if Hatton came in weighing 140, which is not true. I agree that if Hatton was fighting a Margarito this point would be moot, but he wasn't fighting a true welter.

But whatever, I'll drop it, but honestly I still don't feel you've made a valid point and this board is all about debating these things.

He made a totally valid point bro,Ricky is one of the most notorious undertrainers in the entire business.
It probably goes similar,but Hatton makes it a way better fight then it was,if he had come in in better shape.
Hatton's a great fighter,but he gives anybody whose stuck training him ulcers because of his lack of discipline
If he had had to make a lower weight,he might have trained harder and made a better go of it.
Floyd still probably beats him,but it wouldnt have been as one sided as it was

TM, are you saying the improvement in Hatton at 140 compared to 147 is significantly greater than the improvement in Floyd at 140 compared to 147? I find precious little in your post to support that, I tend to agree more with what CFH said about that, that you could hardly call Hatton undertrained or out of shape for the Mayweather fight. Hatton ain't the only one who is better at JWW. So Floyd would likely be just as dominant.

[bambamdaddio]

Of course I keep talking about Floyd, that is who Hatton was fighting. He is relevant because you claim he would have some kind of size advantage against Hatton if Hatton came in weighing 140, which is not true. I agree that if Hatton was fighting a Margarito this point would be moot, but he wasn't fighting a true welter.

But whatever, I'll drop it, but honestly I still don't feel you've made a valid point and this board is all about debating these things.

He made a totally valid point bro,Ricky is one of the most notorious undertrainers in the entire business.
It probably goes similar,but Hatton makes it a way better fight then it was,if he had come in in better shape.
Hatton's a great fighter,but he gives anybody whose stuck training him ulcers because of his lack of discipline
If he had had to make a lower weight,he might have trained harder and made a better go of it.
Floyd still probably beats him,but it wouldnt have been as one sided as it was

I'm pretty sure I remember the Hatton camp saying Ricky was training the hardest he ever had for the Mayweather fight. Mayweather is a gym rat, he is ALWAYS training, nobody trains harder than PBF fight coming up or not he is always in peak shape. Hatton getting into shape for 140 would require him to do extra cardio and wath his diet more, I don't see how either of those things would give him the extra skills to have anymore success against PBF than he did at 147.

Who said anything about skills bud ... & the Hatton camp will always say the best for there fighter...but the extra put in gives him more energy more discipline, more explosive power & more speed...not to mention what it does mentally when sacrificing so much, it makes ya meaner, more aggressive ... nothing to do with would he win or not Im bored of saying I dont think he would, but for the above reasons Im saying Hatton fights as a better fighter than he does at welter against anybody

[killersheep]

He made a totally valid point bro,Ricky is one of the most notorious undertrainers in the entire business.
It probably goes similar,but Hatton makes it a way better fight then it was,if he had come in in better shape.
Hatton's a great fighter,but he gives anybody whose stuck training him ulcers because of his lack of discipline
If he had had to make a lower weight,he might have trained harder and made a better go of it.
Floyd still probably beats him,but it wouldnt have been as one sided as it was

I'm pretty sure I remember the Hatton camp saying Ricky was training the hardest he ever had for the Mayweather fight. Mayweather is a gym rat, he is ALWAYS training, nobody trains harder than PBF fight coming up or not he is always in peak shape. Hatton getting into shape for 140 would require him to do extra cardio and wath his diet more, I don't see how either of those things would give him the extra skills to have anymore success against PBF than he did at 147.

Who said anything about skills bud ... & the Hatton camp will always say the best for there fighter...but the extra put in gives him more energy more discipline, more explosive power & more speed...not to mention what it does mentally when sacrificing so much, it makes ya meaner, more aggressive ... nothing to do with would he win or not Im bored of saying I dont think he would, but for the above reasons Im saying Hatton fights as a better fighter than he does at welter against anybody

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

[bambamdaddio]

I'm pretty sure I remember the Hatton camp saying Ricky was training the hardest he ever had for the Mayweather fight. Mayweather is a gym rat, he is ALWAYS training, nobody trains harder than PBF fight coming up or not he is always in peak shape. Hatton getting into shape for 140 would require him to do extra cardio and wath his diet more, I don't see how either of those things would give him the extra skills to have anymore success against PBF than he did at 147.

Who said anything about skills bud ... & the Hatton camp will always say the best for there fighter...but the extra put in gives him more energy more discipline, more explosive power & more speed...not to mention what it does mentally when sacrificing so much, it makes ya meaner, more aggressive ... nothing to do with would he win or not Im bored of saying I dont think he would, but for the above reasons Im saying Hatton fights as a better fighter than he does at welter against anybody

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

No Im saying the extra he has to give to make lite welter changes him all around & I really believe it does ... & I really believe its a mental thing, in that having to discipline himself that much more changes him ... as well as the fitness benefits obviously...he has to put in extra at lw that gives him a different toughness mentally & physically, which I believe gives a better fighter in bringing out the best in him thats all..

[killersheep]

Who said anything about skills bud ... & the Hatton camp will always say the best for there fighter...but the extra put in gives him more energy more discipline, more explosive power & more speed...not to mention what it does mentally when sacrificing so much, it makes ya meaner, more aggressive ... nothing to do with would he win or not Im bored of saying I dont think he would, but for the above reasons Im saying Hatton fights as a better fighter than he does at welter against anybody

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

No Im saying the extra he has to give to make lite welter changes him all around & I really believe it does ... & I really believe its a mental thing, in that having to discipline himself that much more changes him ... as well as the fitness benefits obviously...he has to put in extra at lw that gives him a different toughness mentally & physically, which I believe gives a better fighter in bringing out the best in him thats all..

So why does that not apply to Mayweather?

[bambamdaddio]

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

No Im saying the extra he has to give to make lite welter changes him all around & I really believe it does ... & I really believe its a mental thing, in that having to discipline himself that much more changes him ... as well as the fitness benefits obviously...he has to put in extra at lw that gives him a different toughness mentally & physically, which I believe gives a better fighter in bringing out the best in him thats all..

So why does that not apply to Mayweather?

Eh ... dont get ya bud I never said it wouldnt ... so if thats so Floyd fights a better fight then yes ... so then Ricky does too .. so maybe we get the same result but a better fight..

[Trainer Monkey]

I'm pretty sure I remember the Hatton camp saying Ricky was training the hardest he ever had for the Mayweather fight. Mayweather is a gym rat, he is ALWAYS training, nobody trains harder than PBF fight coming up or not he is always in peak shape. Hatton getting into shape for 140 would require him to do extra cardio and wath his diet more, I don't see how either of those things would give him the extra skills to have anymore success against PBF than he did at 147.

Who said anything about skills bud ... & the Hatton camp will always say the best for there fighter...but the extra put in gives him more energy more discipline, more explosive power & more speed...not to mention what it does mentally when sacrificing so much, it makes ya meaner, more aggressive ... nothing to do with would he win or not Im bored of saying I dont think he would, but for the above reasons Im saying Hatton fights as a better fighter than he does at welter against anybody

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

I dont think anyone is saying he would have beaten Mayweather,but he would have had a much better shot if he had been tighter and in better shape is more what both of us are saying.
I still think Floyd would end up being too slick for Hatton's style,but he would have had a better shot at it lighter

[bambamdaddio]

Who said anything about skills bud ... & the Hatton camp will always say the best for there fighter...but the extra put in gives him more energy more discipline, more explosive power & more speed...not to mention what it does mentally when sacrificing so much, it makes ya meaner, more aggressive ... nothing to do with would he win or not Im bored of saying I dont think he would, but for the above reasons Im saying Hatton fights as a better fighter than he does at welter against anybody

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

I dont think anyone is saying he would have beaten Mayweather,but he would have had a much better shot if he had been tighter and in better shape is more what both of us are saying.
I still think Floyd would end up being too slick for Hatton's style,but he would have had a better shot at it lighter

Spot on Bro .. simple as that

[CFH]

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

I dont think anyone is saying he would have beaten Mayweather,but he would have had a much better shot if he had been tighter and in better shape is more what both of us are saying.
I still think Floyd would end up being too slick for Hatton's style,but he would have had a better shot at it lighter

Spot on Bro .. simple as that

But the weight the fight took place at has nothing to do with it. You're essentially saying that Hatton is not professional enough to come into the biggest fight of his career in the best possible condition, but I have never seen any evidence of this at all nor have I ever read anything from a credible source suggesting it.

Hatton was in the best possible shape for the Mayweather fight, in fact he weighed in well below the 147 limit with the stated goal of keeping that sharpness and that hunger.

[killersheep]

Are you saying he fought Mayweather and Collazo less aggressively and more slowly than his fights at 140?

I dont think anyone is saying he would have beaten Mayweather,but he would have had a much better shot if he had been tighter and in better shape is more what both of us are saying.
I still think Floyd would end up being too slick for Hatton's style,but he would have had a better shot at it lighter

Spot on Bro .. simple as that

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

Apart from Joe Cortez, the biggest excuse for his loss was the weight they fought at. Both guys are the same height, Ricky started his career (and stayed) at 140, Floyd starts his career at 130. Ricky is known as the bigger fighter, a guy who balloons up between fights and kills himself to make weight.

So how would the fight have been any different if both men had to weight in at 140? People say Ricky isn't a WW. True, but neither is Mayweather. Mayweather is just a guy fighting in weight classes he has no business in because he's going where the money is.

So how would have 140 made the fight different? You'd think weighting at 147 would benefit Ricky more, because he's the guy who kills himself making weight. Would extra hours spent in the sauna cutting weight make Ricky better? Would making 140 be to PBF's detriment? Why? He's in shape 24/7, 365 and never has an issue making weight.

[Spicoli]

140,147.....The fact that Hatton drinks like a fish in the off time and melts back down to fit shape by fight time is pretty amazing and one would think pretty taxing physically.Whatever the weight,Hatton could not compensate for the athleticism of Mayweather.Hattons 'fast' is Mayweathers 'lightspeed'.............And I picked Hatton

[Trainer Monkey]

I dont think anyone is saying he would have beaten Mayweather,but he would have had a much better shot if he had been tighter and in better shape is more what both of us are saying.
I still think Floyd would end up being too slick for Hatton's style,but he would have had a better shot at it lighter

Spot on Bro .. simple as that

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

Apart from Joe Cortez, the biggest excuse for his loss was the weight they fought at. Both guys are the same height, Ricky started his career (and stayed) at 140, Floyd starts his career at 130. Ricky is known as the bigger fighter, a guy who balloons up between fights and kills himself to make weight.

So how would the fight have been any different if both men had to weight in at 140? People say Ricky isn't a WW. True, but neither is Mayweather. Mayweather is just a guy fighting in weight classes he has no business in because he's going where the money is.

So how would have 140 made the fight different? You'd think weighting at 147 would benefit Ricky more, because he's the guy who kills himself making weight. Would extra hours spent in the sauna cutting weight make Ricky better? Would making 140 be to PBF's detriment? Why? He's in shape 24/7, 365 and never has an issue making weight.

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

[killersheep]

Spot on Bro .. simple as that

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

Apart from Joe Cortez, the biggest excuse for his loss was the weight they fought at. Both guys are the same height, Ricky started his career (and stayed) at 140, Floyd starts his career at 130. Ricky is known as the bigger fighter, a guy who balloons up between fights and kills himself to make weight.

So how would the fight have been any different if both men had to weight in at 140? People say Ricky isn't a WW. True, but neither is Mayweather. Mayweather is just a guy fighting in weight classes he has no business in because he's going where the money is.

So how would have 140 made the fight different? You'd think weighting at 147 would benefit Ricky more, because he's the guy who kills himself making weight. Would extra hours spent in the sauna cutting weight make Ricky better? Would making 140 be to PBF's detriment? Why? He's in shape 24/7, 365 and never has an issue making weight.

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

[Trainer Monkey]

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing

[killersheep]

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing

I don't believe Manfredy had hurt Mayweather enough to close the show even if he jumped on him, did he hurt Mayweather? Yes but not as bad as people have been claiming lately. But that has nothing to do with this argument.
At this point I am just trying to understand your argument. You are saying that by Hatton fighting Mayweather at 140 he would have better luck and that would potentially change the outcome of the fight. Is that correct?