I think Marciano would eventually find Ali over 15 rounds

[IamInuit]

I think brockton in many ways has made a compelling case. At least its not out of the reach of possibility.

Speaking of reach, Marciano was outreached his entire career. Ricky Hatton is about an inch short of his reach. The chance does exist that Marciano lands the perfect shot regardless of how good Ali's chin is.

Marciano's problem would be getting Ali to walk into one.

[Mars_ax]

Ali had problems with just about everybody, same like Holmes. Ali was rocked by just about every opponent--Doug Jones won the fight, Cooper and another guy floored him, Chuck Wepner floored ahim and went 15 rounds, Chuvalo beat him on pionts, Ken Norton won all 3 fights, Bob Foster cut him, Frazier was wining the 3rd fight if his eyes didnt close, Ali would get waxed in a rematch with Foreman who could probably beat Ali just using his jab and conserving his energy better than Zaire, an old Patterson was "the toughest fight I ever had" said Ali himself. Frazier really showed in the first fight that Ali was only great for his Iron Chin and not much else as Ali's fucking head in that fight should have come off his shoulders on dozens of occasions due to monster left hooks that should have decapitated him. Ali proved he could take any punch from anybody and still fight on. Just that he didnt do too much fightin after Frazier took his head off in the mid to late rounds.

Ali struggled with everybody. Name a fight Ali didnt have a scare or get hurt bad.

Marciano would destroy Ali.

Looking at this analysis Ali is the worst Heavyweight champion of all time and probably wouldn't have beaten Marvin Hart! We should all stop talking about Ali and condemn his legacy to the dustbin of time and erase his memory from boxing altogether? I was unaware that so many people over the last 50 years have got it all wrong about Ali, i better go read a book about boxing because i have no idea now.

I watched Ali/Clay almost from his 1st fight as a Pro, in Ali's Prime which would have to have been before the 3 1/2 year lay off for draft evasion he was the most physically gifted HW who ever lived. He had a rare combination of ring smarts, skill, speed, power, endurance, and a defense that was better then Mayweather's. In short, in Ali's Championship "prime", Marciano and Frazier wouldn't have stood a chance, and neither would few other Heavyweights in the History of boxing.

Perhaps some of you base your opinions on the version of Ali after the 3 1/2 year lay off, and/or the one who lost to Frazier in their first fight, but before being stripped of his title Ali was unbeatable.

[Mars_ax]

BTW, Brockton, your Ali/Marciano threads are worse then Fenster's recycling of Naz.

[ICB]

I made a topic ages ago, comparing George Chuvalo to Rocky Marciano. I think Rocky Marciano/Muhammad Ali fight would resemble George Chuvalo/Muhammad Ali. I don't think Rocky Marciano gets destroyed like so many people think. But i think he loses but i also think he would give Muhammad Ali a serious run for his money. George Chuvalo gave Muhammad Ali fits especially in there 2nd fight.

[brocktonblockbust]

I agree Cassius Clay was perhaps unbeatable. Watching those early fights I am astounded at the footwork and hand speed and sharp punching power.

Not sure if Marciano could catch Cassius Clay. But Clay would have to come to Rocky. THAT would be the time for Rocky to get so low Ali would have to hit him on the back of the head. I say Rocky comes up from the floor with some devastating uppercuts and body shots.

[Master]

I agree Cassius Clay was perhaps unbeatable. Watching those early fights I am astounded at the footwork and hand speed and sharp punching power.

Not sure if Marciano could catch Cassius Clay. But Clay would have to come to Rocky. THAT would be the time for Rocky to get so low Ali would have to hit him on the back of the head. I say Rocky comes up from the floor with some devastating uppercuts and body shots.

And Clay comes in with fast jabs, right hands and left hooks. I was surprised at how aggressive he was against Liston in the first round in their first fight.

[greynotsoold]

But Ali was far from unbeatable- even early on, as Clay. Keep in mind that when he came up, nobody was in awe of him, nobody was calling him the greatest (except himself), in fact, the consensus was that he was very fast and basically unschooled. Keep in mind... guys like Ray Arcel and Eddie Futch did not, to their dying day, consider Ali the best heavyweight of all time. They both thought Joe Louis would beat him, and Arcel thought Dempsey would as well. Ali had great reflexes, was always in tremendous shape, and had an incredible will to win. Those attributes covered up a lot of flaws.
Basic things...Every time he jabbed, his right hand flared out. A slightly better than good Kenny Norton exploited that by jabbing when Ali jabbed. He dropped his hands to punch, so Frazier stayed low and hooked every time Ali threw an uppercut. Charley Goldman was every bit as astute and observant and boxing smart as Eddie Futch. They'd surround Ali's jab and make him either move into Marciano's right, or to his (Ali's) own right, and Ali didn't like to fight going to his right (the 2nd Liston fight and that one notwithstanding).
Marciano had greater stamina than Frazier, and he would take fewer punches than Frazier did from Ali. He'd trap Ali in enough corners and on the ropes enough to win a pretty clear cut decision.

[Master]

Ali may not be technically brilliant but his heart, conditioning, reflex, courage, speed, stamina, mentality, mind games, confidence etc made up for it. At his best he was the best.

[Freedom]

Ali before the layoff wasn't unbeatable. Let's not forget he was KOed by Henry Cooper and saved by the bell.

[imp]

Ali may not be technically brilliant but his heart, conditioning, reflex, courage, speed, stamina, mentality, mind games, confidence etc made up for it. At his best he was the best.

Brilliant post!!!!

[brocktonblockbust]

great posts seriously dudes. Its intriguing. All that Ali had will to win etc I think Marciano had a greater will to win. I agree with Grey that Goldman would find the way for Marciano to force Ali to his right---Marciano ALWAYS moved left---you couldnt get him to move any other way than to his left. HE forced the action remember Ali cannot effectively force any action he is basically a counter puncher and capitalizing on errors. His leadoff punches are few and far between and quite flaewed as Grey points out---Ali always drifting his right hand whilst jabbing and that shitty slapping leadoff left hook----shitty indeed---he could not get away with that with Marciano. Ali would not land a single left hook on Rocky in 15 rounds. And if he threw one he would pay dearly to the body especially.

[Master]

Ali fought monster punchers from Foreman, Shavers and Lyle who hit harder than Rocky and if they could not dent the man, no one in the history could.

[greynotsoold]

Ali fought monster punchers from Foreman, Shavers and Lyle who hit harder than Rocky and if they could not dent the man, no one in the history could.

Henry Cooper didn't hit as hard as any of those mentioned and he certainly did dent him. Frazier did as well. The thing is, Foreman, Shavers and Lyle were all big and strong...and dumb. Just swinging those big arms until they either ko'd the other guy or exhausted themselves.

[Master]

Ali fought monster punchers from Foreman, Shavers and Lyle who hit harder than Rocky and if they could not dent the man, no one in the history could.

Henry Cooper didn't hit as hard as any of those mentioned and he certainly did dent him. Frazier did as well. The thing is, Foreman, Shavers and Lyle were all big and strong...and dumb. Just swinging those big arms until they either ko'd the other guy or exhausted themselves.

Rocky was crude and cut easy. Ali would slice him up.

[Mars_ax]

Ali fought monster punchers from Foreman, Shavers and Lyle who hit harder than Rocky and if they could not dent the man, no one in the history could.

Henry Cooper didn't hit as hard as any of those mentioned and he certainly did dent him. Frazier did as well. The thing is, Foreman, Shavers and Lyle were all big and strong...and dumb. Just swinging those big arms until they either ko'd the other guy or exhausted themselves.

Rocky was crude and cut easy. Ali would slice him up.

I think some forget just how good Ali was in his Prime, he won the HW title from Sonny Liston when he was just 22, the muther-fucker was amazing. I seriously doubt that Marciano would have even beaten the version of Ali who fought Frazier the 1st time. Yes Frazier, who was a full fledged HW, won the 1st fight, but he took a terrible beating. I don't see Marciano who was at best a small Crusierweight, being able to get inside against Ali like Frazier did, or being able to stand up to that kind of beating. Plus, like you say, Ali would have shredded Rocky's face.