Nelson Mandela has died

[Beanflicker]

His jail guard a white guy was asked yesterday if he could sum up Mandela in a word or two He said only one comes to mind and thats forgiveness.
He held no grudge to anyone.
I think he deserves the same. Be judged as you judge and all that.

Fuck that. We're not talking about infidelity, a drug addiction, or some other relatively minor flaw.

We're talking about killing innocent civilians. We're talking about torturing people and using horrific means of executing people (a favorite of the Mandela's was "necklacing", which involved filling a tire with gasoline, putting it around someone's head and then lighting it on fire).

[boyla]

Mandela has said himself that he did make mistakes and regrets some of his actions but without him there South Africa would have been in a worse state than it is now.

SA has become a shithole unless you count bodybags and rape as progressive.

[Gandalf]

Superheavy, you are right. Me and Smashup have both been going at it like a couple of gayers and it isn't cool. Will tone it down and hope for the same in return.

Beanflicker makes good points. It's all well and good for someone to forgive when they have tortured people in grotesque physical ways. Most people don't do that, most people find other ways to change the system.

It would be easy to kill a banker and then 20 years later when society is reforming say, 'I believe in forgiveness, I hold no grudges'. Well, it's good that you do, but you are still a very guilty person and you should always fall asleep at night with death on your mind.

I might threaten to push the Queen off a pier, but it's clearly never going to happen. When push comes to shove, I would just make her work in Asda: 'No easy answers for you M'lady, pack those eclairs. Faster. Don't forget, retirement is not an option'.

[El Kabong]

Mandela has said himself that he did make mistakes and regrets some of his actions but without him there South Africa would have been in a worse state than it is now.

SA has become a shithole unless you count bodybags and rape as progressive.

....actually that's kind of the Progressive MO


Love Obama's lack of self awareness in his speech "There are too many leaders who claim solidarity with Madiba’s struggle for freedom, but do not tolerate dissent from their own people"

[El Kabong]

Mandela was also a socialist

[Master]

Mandela was also a socialist

Yes and that made him even greater.

[Beanz]

There is a lot of willful ignorance and bigoted prejudice dressed up as social conscience in this thread. There is a big difference between targeting government infrastructure and burning civilians to death with tire necklaces. Mandela recognised this and distanced himself from those who did not, be that MK or even his own then wife, Winnie.



Being a Socialist is neither here nor there, plenty of non socialist leaders have commited atrocities and many socialists have done nothing but work for the greater good.

[El Kabong]

COPYRIGHT AFP PHOTO / ROBERTO SCHMIDTROBERTO SCHMIDT/AFP/Gett... on Twitpic

Funeral picture, CHEESE!!!!


Made him greater? It made him a dope...but hey he ain't my hero so fuck it, you guys idolize him all you like

[Master]

COPYRIGHT AFP PHOTO / ROBERTO SCHMIDTROBERTO SCHMIDT/AFP/Gett... on Twitpic

Funeral picture, CHEESE!!!!


Made him greater? It made him a dope...but hey he ain't my hero so fuck it, you guys idolize him all you like

Because he was a socialist he was a dope? Your USA hysteria and propaganda that all thinks Liberal and left of that is bad is deeply entrenched in you but you carry on living with that ignorance.

[El Kabong]

In the cold war you either sided with the US or USSR. Mandela sided with the latter and because of that yes he was a dope. Thankfully he did believe in peace unlike those who supported him.

“It is our duty to give support to the brother leader … especially in regards to the sanctions which are not hitting just him, they are hitting the ordinary masses of the people … our African brothers and sisters.” - Mandela on Moamar Gadhafi

“If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings.” - Mandela

“Israel should withdraw from all the areas which it won from the Arabs in 1967, and in particular Israel should withdraw completely from the Golan Heights, from south Lebanon and from the West Bank.” - Mandela

“All that (Mr. Bush) wants is Iraqi oil.”
- Mandela




Peaceful though he may have become after his stint in prison his politics were terrible...no different than Che Guavera

[Master]

Most of what he said is correct where was the WMD in Iraq?

[El Kabong]

Most of what he said is correct where was the WMD in Iraq?

I've explained Iraq several times. WMD's were a worry but the invasion was going to happen because Saddam had not followed the sanctions imposed on him after the Persian Gulf War and due to that he was ousted

[Master]

Most of what he said is correct where was the WMD in Iraq?

I've explained Iraq several times. WMD's were a worry but the invasion was going to happen because Saddam had not followed the sanctions imposed on him after the Persian Gulf War and due to that he was ousted

I am not going to debate this on a great man's thread.

[El Kabong]

Oh you aren't are you

She screwed many people over and made society even more unequal between rich and poor. She promoted the yuppy generation, killed the manufacturing industries, starting the selling off of public assets.

She remained in power because of the Falklands war, weak opposition and eventually got thrown out by her own party.

.....you seemed all to willing to talk about Thatcher when she passed.

[Master]

Oh you aren't are you

She screwed many people over and made society even more unequal between rich and poor. She promoted the yuppy generation, killed the manufacturing industries, starting the selling off of public assets.

She remained in power because of the Falklands war, weak opposition and eventually got thrown out by her own party.

.....you seemed all to willing to talk about Thatcher when she passed.

And she would not support sanctions or boycotts to stop the racist regime. She and her party were always against ANC and Nelson Mandela.