Man made Global Warming

[Mikkel_K]

Yes Lyle, volcanoes are natural. Pumping millions of tons of shit into the air every day, not so much.

No it isn't.

You forgot to reply to Lyle's third point. I'll help you:

When the f*** did America "try and follow procedures to help reduce emissions" and what the f*** you mean by "follow our lead in this venture"?

Ever heard of Kyoto, Lyle?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Well said Missy

Yeah well said,
many points raised not just one point out on the edge of an extreme statement.

The great barrier reef has been growing naturally for billions of years and in the last 3 decades is DEAD not just dying is dead and its spreading deeper and deeper and its not just from Earths natural occurances.

Here is another point in this collection of many;

Everything is in a finite balancing act we are included in that act and we do have our effects on every aspect of it .
Our effects stem from deeper than just the physical actions of ourselves or our little machines as a group. Although we are stripping all the main forests for our lovely furniture at the expense of our fresh air and future rain dispersion.(it'll fall into the sea instead).

Truthfully the sun is releasing massive energy that it hasnt before and it has more effects on us than all the planets combined both in astronomy and astrology ,both personally and also with physical planetary effects on the end.

We stand to lose not just the clothes off our backs.
I agree with Lyle there isnt a thing we can do to change it from here in the physical state we chose to exist in.

Massive change is imminent and billions of us wont take to it kindly unless they reevaluate what they hold dear to themselves ,starting within themselves.

Just as you cant do or change anything physically until you have first thought it. It goes deeper cause you have to change or at least realize your deepest feelings before you can think differently and comfortably stand in a different point of view. The secret to all of the power is all in the foundation spirit feeling.
Earth is the physical foundation and we are from within her and we are from above her. As it was once written .. as above so below.

Dont hang onto anything , enjoy the ride,

Ive been drinking.

Does contributing to killing off Missy's birds mattter?.. considering the enjoyment of the ride?

1. See the points I raised above. I rest my case m'lord.

[Fenster]

As long as you "enjoy the ride."

[Howlin Mad Missy]

that might be fine for a dead Bill Hicks but I don't enjoy killing wild animals half way round the globe because of our throw away society.

[El Kabong]

Yes Lyle, volcanoes are natural. Pumping millions of tons of shit into the air every day, not so much.

No it isn't.

You forgot to reply to Lyle's third point. I'll help you:

When the f*** did America "try and follow procedures to help reduce emissions" and what the f*** you mean by "follow our lead in this venture"?

Ever heard of Kyoto, Lyle?

We'll start following that when China and India are forced to. Kyoto was a farce all those people get together and blame America and want to level the economic playing field by forcing the US to change their procedures and pollution standards while everyone else doesn't do a God damn thing.

[Fenster]

that might be fine for a dead Bill Hicks but I don't enjoy killing wild animals half way round the globe because of our throw away society.

you enjoy believing you can make a difference

it's all part of the ride

[El Kabong]

Does no one remember the 1970's people causing the same fuss over Global COOLING? Which eventually lead to Earth Day and all that stupid waste of time crap.


Al Gore came along and now it's Global WARMING

And then trends showed we're actually cooling again and so now these fucking morons call it CLIMATE CHANGE


It's all a play on your emotions and it's just global socialism in a new fancy "we really care" wrapper. Just go see these people and see if you can count the Che Guavera t-shirts

[Mikkel_K]

Yes Lyle, volcanoes are natural. Pumping millions of tons of shit into the air every day, not so much.

No it isn't.

You forgot to reply to Lyle's third point. I'll help you:

When the f*** did America "try and follow procedures to help reduce emissions" and what the f*** you mean by "follow our lead in this venture"?

Ever heard of Kyoto, Lyle?

We'll start following that when China and India are forced to. Kyoto was a farce all those people get together and blame America and want to level the economic playing field by forcing the US to change their procedures and pollution standards while everyone else doesn't do a God damn thing.

Alright, while this is indeed something of a kindergarten-argument (we wont do anything, if they dont do anything), it is at least a valid point. And I understand the argument. It would hurt anyone's economy to enter into regulations that others does not have to comply with.

You do, however, realize that this is markedly different from what you said earlier, right? 'America wont do anything, when others dont do anything' and 'America is leading, but the others dont do anything' is hardly the same point.

As for 'everyone else doesn't do a God damn thing', then it's simply not true either. The EU - which btw happens to be the biggest economy in the world - has for example vowed to cut emissions by 20 percent by 2020 (vis a vis 2005). That most certainly is doing something, and doing something costly as well (I am not saying, it is the right thing, but it sure as hell is not nothing).

And that Kyoto-deal was also taken seriously by just about every civilised country out there, hell even Russia agreed to it in the end. I know you prefer to measure yourself against China and India, but is that really the kind of country you want to associate yourself with?

Finally, the Kyoto-agreement was signed in 1997. Which makes the references to Al Gore and Florida look a bit silly, don't you think?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

that might be fine for a dead Bill Hicks but I don't enjoy killing wild animals half way round the globe because of our throw away society.

you enjoy believing you can make a difference

it's all part of the ride

people can make a difference, if I didn't think it mattered I'd be Lyle.

[Kirkland Laing]

And then trends showed we're actually cooling again

You're wrong again. Are you trying to set a world wrongness record or something?

Just go see these people and see if you can count the Che Guavera t-shirts

My girlfriend looks fantastic in her Hezbollah t shirt.

[El Kabong]

...you cut me deep Missy



Mikkel, the DEVELOPED countries had to cut their emissions and the DEVELOPING countries could do whatever they wanted.

The US was not alone in not signing it and even the countries that did sign it some aren't fulfilling their goals for example JAPAN.


Also other nations were able to cut their emissions by using NUCLEAR POWER the cleanest most efficient source of power....France for example is now basically run by only nuclear power. While in the United States we haven't built a new nuclear power plant in over 20 years and why?

ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

It's odd that people FOR the environment don't want the cleanest most efficient source of power....so very, very odd.

[:::PSL:::]

ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

[El Kabong]

World Climate Report The Coming Global Cooling?


Hey if you want me to call it "Global Warming" that's fine but it'll just turn to cooling again later on so you might as well hop on board the "Global Climate Change" wagon now.

[Mikkel_K]

Mikkel, the DEVELOPED countries had to cut their emissions and the DEVELOPING countries could do whatever they wanted.

The US was not alone in not signing it and even the countries that did sign it some aren't fulfilling their goals for example JAPAN.


Also other nations were able to cut their emissions by using NUCLEAR POWER the cleanest most efficient source of power....France for example is now basically run by only nuclear power. While in the United States we haven't built a new nuclear power plant in over 20 years and why?

ENVIRONMENTALISTS!

It's odd that people FOR the environment don't want the cleanest most efficient source of power....so very, very odd.

Okay Lyle, consider me impressed.

Now you've gone from:
"America is leading this venture" to
"Noone is doing a god damn thing" and now finally to
"America is not the only country doing nothing".

While it would be easy to ask you about the categories 'developed' and 'developing' - and perhaps ask you which category you'd like to place the US in - I'm so still positively surprised that you actually managed to move yourself that I decided to end the discussion and just rep you instead. Also, you happen to be right in that last assesment, and that should be praised.

I won't go into an argument either whether it is unfair to the US if countries like India (whose emission is 1/6 of USA's despite 3 times the population) aren't cutting down accordingly. I have a feeeling that that discusson won't be particularly fruitful here.

As for arguing about the use of nuclear power, I am a bit torn myself. However, just to clarify a bit as it seems that you are under the impression that nuclear plants are springin up everywhere in Europe, while the US haven't build a new nuclear power plant in 20 years: The total amount of new power plants entering into construction within the current European Union area since the Three Mile Island-incident in 1979 (28 years ago) is 0. I can repeat that number: Zero. (To be fair two additional reactors are being built - one in Finland, one in France - but none of these will enter into function this decade)

It is true however that nuclear power could be increasingly used in the future, and that the topic is much more hot (and politically correct) now than at any other time since (at least) the Chernobyl disaster.

[El Kabong]

I'm not trying to shift blame....I still don't believe in MAN MADE Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change. I am just saying it's not fair to 100% blame America for the World's problems....it's called GLOBAL warming/cooling/climate change and not AMERICAN warming/cooling/climate change. China is going to surpass us at the top of the greenhouse gas list in the not so distance future.

As of 2006 the only countries on pace to meet their specific goals under the Kyoto Protocol are Sweeden and England....so either the world if full of liars and people who don't care OR the Kyoto Protocol was too tough for most already developed countries. The US was going to get hammered, China got off scott free....Germany was going to get nailed and India got off easy. The emissions of those countries are roughly similar only the US and Germany are developed and apparently China is considered "developing" along with India and that's all well and good but hey if they are DEVELOPING couldn't they do so by making everything "green" or "eco-friendly" I know people got pissed that New Orleans wasn't built back in an eco-friendly manner.....so why build anything that is going to hurt the environment? Why doesn't everyone get together and help build eco-friendly stuff in India and China? Because it's complete bullcrap that's why.


All this stuff is just a way to level the economic playing field so that the West suffers and the developing and 3rd World countries can gain ground.


And anyone who believes in "Carbon Offsets" ought to seek professional help....it's buying indulgances and is very reminiscent of the Catholic Chruch in the Dark Ages. Soon there will be Global Warming Crusades where sinners will repent all the way to Africa or some place like that, maybe a Guatamalan Rain Forrest or some crap....I bet you money they do that in the next couple of years...they won't call it a Crusade but they'll do basically the same thing and it will accomplish nothing in regards to Global Climate Change or whatever you want to call it