How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?

[Spicoli]

Is Leonard Peltier still locked up.Agree totally with swept under the rug on a whole.I'd say the reservations and conditions are worse off than many of the ones found in some housing projects.

[El Kabong]

Ok, once again you bring your race into it. What the hell is up with that? This has nothing to do with your race, yet you feel like constantly a victim because of it. Who the fuck are you, Al Sharpton??

Also, don't try & twist the 9/11 thing. Go to the top of this page & answer the question. I'll phrase it again. You say 'you don't give a shit about something that you weren't involved in'. Is it therefore ok in your eyes for a Muslim person to not give a shit about 9/11 because they personally were not involved? The comparison between what the settlers did to the Native Americans (the people whose land it was) & a bunch of Islamist nutjobs attacking Americans in the WTC (the people whose land it was), is not completely off the point, so don't act like I'm belittling 9/11.

The rest of what you said basically develops into a rant. You're right the Native American community do have a lot of problems. But... and here's a really crazy one for ya... how about rather than throwing out blanket statements, we have a reasoned calm debate. Everytime you start doing the 'victim' thing (highlighted), we lose all track of that while we have to deal with you going on about how we hate your opinions & are trying to oppress you.

You'll notice that nothing is highlighted in the middle paragraph. Do you know why? Because what you wrote was pertinent to the argument & I actually liked a lot of what you said, even if I didn't agree with all of it. It's this whining about how we're all trying to stop your freedom of speech that gets on my nerves Lyle, so please cut that out.

Well I'll try to behave just for you Jaz ........now I feel like I ought to add in a "just kidding" or something just so you don't get any more angry with me, but then again that wouldn't be pertinant to the discussion, would it

I don't know how relevant your 9/11 comment was and if it is relevant then I doubt it helps your argument. 9/11 happened 8 years ago, and certainly there are muslims out there who don't feel responsible for it and they shouldn't because they had nothing to do with it, not all muslims were a part of 9/11, I would hope that a majority of them especially the American muslim population would say that 9/11 was a tragedy and the people that did it are a shame on the religion of Islam. I am not going to paint that entire religion with a broad brush just on account of a couple crazy ass people. You may believe I paint Indians with a broad brush, but I can only comment on what I have seen and experienced and that mainly has to do with Cherokee and the Lumbee's (the Lumbee I don't think have official status yet, but they consider themselves Indians). If people who were involved in 9/11 (and I am sure there are quite a few still alive) don't feel bad about it then they are obviously bad people. The majority of issues with the Indians happened over 200 years ago so #1 it's impossible for anyone to be alive from that era therefore it is understandable if people don't reflect back on those times in American history and feel the effect in a visceral manner #2 With the Indians it was more than just 1 tragic event that caused their troubles, it was a history of broken treaties, wars, and general mistreatment over a long period of time, but there really hasn't been anything huge recently, just poor living conditions, low education, and high rates of drug and alcohol abuse. I am not sure why it's such a big deal that I am not kept awake at night thinking about Wounded Knee or the Trail of Tears, those things happened waaaaay long ago and to be honest I am not sure of any of my ancestors dealings with Indians negative or positive.....why does it irk you so much? Do you still feel bad about the Carnatic Wars or the Boer Wars? If you do then I think you've got a big issue with guilt.

I hope that this post is OK with everyone, if not then I'm sorry there's nothing more I can do.

[Oggie]

Everyone knows that 99% of the Irish are illiterate anyways, and the other 1% is so blindingly drunk they can't see let alone read.

Why yes, that is a top-hat I'm wearing, thanks for asking.

And a fine top hat it is sir, now bring me some potatoes and whiskey.

Speaking of drunken Irishmen, I'm going to see the Pogues in just over two weeks. I can't wait. They're one of my all-time favorite bands.

The Pogues are fan-fooking-tastic man!
Shane MacGowan is one of the most underrated frontmen there is. There are not many his equal when it comes to lyrical prowess, and his vocals are at times, astonishing.
A true legend of music!

[CFH]

Why yes, that is a top-hat I'm wearing, thanks for asking.

And a fine top hat it is sir, now bring me some potatoes and whiskey.

Speaking of drunken Irishmen, I'm going to see the Pogues in just over two weeks. I can't wait. They're one of my all-time favorite bands.

The Pogues are fan-fooking-tastic man!
Shane MacGowan is one of the most underrated frontmen there is. There are not many his equal when it comes to lyrical prowess, and his vocals are at times, astonishing.
A true legend of music!

I love his lyrics and his vocal style. Totally original. I'm really looking forward to the show, but I'm a bit apprehensive about which Shane MacGowan is going to show up, the charismatic, albeit drunken, frontman or the slobbering, stumbling wreck who mumbles his way through half-forgotten songs. Either way it should be fun.

[JazMerkin]

Well I'll try to behave just for you Jaz ........now I feel like I ought to add in a "just kidding" or something just so you don't get any more angry with me, but then again that wouldn't be pertinant to the discussion, would it

I don't know how relevant your 9/11 comment was and if it is relevant then I doubt it helps your argument. 9/11 happened 8 years ago, and certainly there are muslims out there who don't feel responsible for it and they shouldn't because they had nothing to do with it, not all muslims were a part of 9/11, I would hope that a majority of them especially the American muslim population would say that 9/11 was a tragedy and the people that did it are a shame on the religion of Islam. I am not going to paint that entire religion with a broad brush just on account of a couple crazy ass people. You may believe I paint Indians with a broad brush, but I can only comment on what I have seen and experienced and that mainly has to do with Cherokee and the Lumbee's (the Lumbee I don't think have official status yet, but they consider themselves Indians). If people who were involved in 9/11 (and I am sure there are quite a few still alive) don't feel bad about it then they are obviously bad people. The majority of issues with the Indians happened over 200 years ago so #1 it's impossible for anyone to be alive from that era therefore it is understandable if people don't reflect back on those times in American history and feel the effect in a visceral manner #2 With the Indians it was more than just 1 tragic event that caused their troubles, it was a history of broken treaties, wars, and general mistreatment over a long period of time, but there really hasn't been anything huge recently, just poor living conditions, low education, and high rates of drug and alcohol abuse. I am not sure why it's such a big deal that I am not kept awake at night thinking about Wounded Knee or the Trail of Tears, those things happened waaaaay long ago and to be honest I am not sure of any of my ancestors dealings with Indians negative or positive.....why does it irk you so much? Do you still feel bad about the Carnatic Wars or the Boer Wars? If you do then I think you've got a big issue with guilt.

I hope that this post is OK with everyone, if not then I'm sorry there's nothing more I can do.

Well, first off the bat, I see your point about 9/11. I agree it wasn't one tragic event, but I was more comparing the reaction to foreign attackers. Like you would hope Muslims would acknowledge it was a tragedy (which 99% do), I would hope you would acknowledge that what happened to the Native Americans was a tragedy, I don't think you should stay awake & cry over it, you didn't do it, but I do think acknowledging the problems that many actions in the past have created is important. That's not aimed just at America, but at the British, French & Spanish colonial attitudes that fucked up a greater proportion of the world.

Tbh, I agree with the vast majority of your post, I'd just prefer if you didn't think every disagreement with you was about your class, nationality or race. You'd think I had a chip on my shoulder if I kept doing that when no-one in the thread mentioned it. I do think the initial impact on the Native Americans has possibly permanently damaged their community, the issues seen there are very similar to the Aboriginals in Australia, as well as a number of former British colonies, particularly in West Africa & the Indian sub-continent.

Oh, and I personally wouldn't feel bad about the Carnatic or Boer wars, because my ancestors were definitely not involved, as I'm the multiracial son of a number of immigrant groups

[El Kabong]

Good, good, good...I'm happy that we're OK now.

When I bring up my race/class/ethnicity...I usually just bring up my race and where I am from because I feel I must further explain myself to keep from being called a racist and a bigot as I RARELY have anything to do with political correctness....I think being PC is for pussies, I like to speak my mind, but I also don't like being judged just out of pure emotional response to my posts. I don't think that happened in this case, but I always prepare for it to happen.

[porkypara]

good debate



thats all i have to say on the matter

I like to raise the standard of thread from time to time.

[killersheep]

Good, good, good...I'm happy that we're OK now.

When I bring up my race/class/ethnicity...I usually just bring up my race and where I am from because I feel I must further explain myself to keep from being called a racist and a bigot as I RARELY have anything to do with political correctness....I think being PC is for pussies, I like to speak my mind, but I also don't like being judged just out of pure emotional response to my posts. I don't think that happened in this case, but I always prepare for it to happen.

Has anyone on this site ever called you racist?

[HattonTheHammer]

survival of the fittest im afraid

happens in all walks of life. they had it, they took it - dont see the problem with that!


PS:Is the term red indian still illegal?? in the uk the only time you`d ever hear that phrase is if someone from mumbai had sunburn!!

[El Kabong]

Has anyone on this site ever called you racist?

Happens every so often

[killersheep]

Has anyone on this site ever called you racist?

Happens every so often

Really? I believe you although I haven't heard it myself. Who called you that?

[Cortez The Killer]

..

[CFH]

..

I used to have that as my sig. One of the Native kids who came to see the archaeological dig I worked on last summer had that same picture on a hoodie he was wearing.