London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians

[Beanz]

There are a higher proportion of people with degrees in Poland, Slovakia and the Czech republic than the UK. The UK has been overtaken by Poland , Portugal, The Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden the Czech Republic and Denmark. So your sweeping generalisation that most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world is just as inherently racist as saying the Palestinians are all terrorists. You have a friend back home ? what kind of intellectual weight is that supposed to carry ? You are extremely out of touch with the UK and just make Krap up. There are plenty of people working and buying property who are not immigrants but you have to look at the negative side of everything. Growth is not a positive unless Miles says it is

[Gandalf]

Deflection? You have misrepresented the whole debate the moment you posted the video in your OP. You have displayed extreme gullibility and continue to ignore Every single salient point that I have raised. You are keen to talk about Istanbul and to purposefully obfuscate the facts by freely exchanging Roma and Romanians and to use the behaviour of a small proportion of people to condemn Bulgarians. You are playing on people's irrational fears and prejudices just like Farrage and that bigoted infowars twat you keep quoting. Criminality is criminality but I am unprepared to view the world through such a distorting bigoted lense that I am reduced to equating the legal migration of European workers with an Apocalyptic future in which everyone that crosses the UK border is demonised and presumed to be a free loading criminal. I am also unwilling to use the kind of language that you do to describe an ethnic group who continue to be abused by people who seek to dehumanise them. And don't try and shut down meaningful debate with yourself and Miles PC krap. You have the right to say whatever you like and I would seek to defend that, but that does not grant you both absolution from responsability. If you are being ignorant, offensive, or simply dishonest then people are completely entitled to disagree with you without being dismissed as brainwashed or 'PC'.

You are being a bit outrageous.

For me it certainly isn't about dehumanising anyone. Immigration is a useful tool when a country needs specific skilled labour, but beyond that, I say that is where it ends. Allowing uncontrolled, unchecked immigration from multiple countries, all of whom are considerably poorer than the main destination is just warped. Of course the migrants would go where the money is. I don't blame them for doing that, but I do blame a system for allowing it and the system clearly needs to be dealt with.

For instance, it is claimed in this thread that immigrants don't claim a lot of benefits. Well, that is something I believe is correct, but I would also believe it to be true that many more are working cash in hand. Also, if there are unemployed people there then why are the numbers even comparable to the British people? More BRITISH people should be on jobseekers allowance in BRITAIN! In Korea I have never heard of any foreigner ever claiming welfare. Why should they? I have to pay into unemployment insurance every month, but that is because I am not classed as a foreigner (I wouldn't claim it anyway). You don't have access to those things as you are temporary and out when your contract is done.

All I say is that the model they have here is one that I prefer. I think this system works well. There is social cohesion, if I wanted to start a business then I am free to do so, but I would only do so in the field of education which I know I can handle and which many Koreans know too. It is very unlikely that they would ever employ me in McDonald's though. They would find it odd, I would find it odd, it would be odd. Why would I be taking those kinds of jobs in a country that I know I have my niche in? It would be outrageous if poor English people started coming out here and taking ordinary jobs that the people here are doing just fine. That is how I look at it. I see the model here and it works fine, I contrast it with the British system and the message boards of every paper are full of angry English people bitter about their plight.

You will just say that I don't care, I have no compassion etc and that is your right, but it is something that I do think about and as man of working class roots, I know where I come from, and where many old friends are. I don't think it right that just because they didn't go to university that they should be stuck in dead end jobs and then find swathes of foreign people coming over and competing. They come first and rightly so. It isn't so terrible or heartless to think that way.

I know the great things that immigration can give, I know the splendour of a 1am curry in memories past. I drive out for a kebab sometimes here and there is a nice Turkish man who I chat with and he is married to a local and has a little daughter. I'm not against these things. They are now part of the system, contribute to the economy, are married etc. I am a migrant worker myself. But like I say, you cannot just allow everyone over to do anything. The last 10 years in the UK have been statistically beyond all comprehension in the entire history of the UK.

[Gandalf]

There are a higher proportion of people with degrees in Poland, Slovakia and the Czech republic than the UK. The UK has been overtaken by Poland , Portugal, The Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden the Czech Republic and Denmark. So your sweeping generalisation that most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world is just as inherently racist as saying the Palestinians are all terrorists. You have a friend back home ? what kind of intellectual weight is that supposed to carry ? You are extremely out of touch with the UK and just make Krap up. There are plenty of people working and buying property who are not immigrants but you have to look at the negative side of everything. Growth is not a positive unless Miles says it is

Yes, then factor in the quality of the Universities. I could obtain a PhD in Thailand at a relatively cheap cost, but what is the value of that degree? What does it really mean? I would have a hard time being taken seriously at many Universities around the world. Ah, but that is me being a snob, an elitist!

You are also warping what I say. The vast majority of Poles coming to work in menial jobs, such as the egg factory or to drive taxis are not intellectuals. They are ordinary people coming to a country, not based on academic credentials, but an open labour market. If they were intellectuals with such vast educational capabilities, they would be working in Universities around the world. Instead, they are opening shops, working in factories, driving cabs etc. When you talk of Polish doctors though, are we really saying that Britain cannot produce effective doctors? That Britain cannot produce lawyers? That Britain cannot produce tattoo artists?

'I have a friend back home' is a direct example. I made two of them. I know what is going on in the UK. I prowl, I look around, I see things when I visit. I read media of all kinds daily. I bathe myself in the stuff. I have friends and family living there, I communicate. The whole 'you have lost touch' nonsense is just that. Utter nonsense. I am not walking down the high street everyday no, but I'm observing from a branch up above.

I am looking at the negative because it is more realistic than saying 'Everything is fine, immigration is all hunky dory, property bubbles are splendid, outrageous bills are quaint, and the police state is blooming marvelous'. I won't bury my head in the sand, or put myself up on a cross singing 'always look on the bright side of life'. It's not realistic.

My point of view is simply that Britain is full. It is full. There isn't enough housing. Housing is unnaffordable. It goes up 3 times faster than wages every year. It is unnaffordable for young people especially. 5 million extras means more competition and 30 year olds living with mother. It's not tenable.

[brocktonblockbust]

@Greenbeanz mate you are taking it too far. Surely you know I dont want to gas anybody mate. I just dont like the Gypsies in Istanbul for what they are doing. I dont know if they are Bulgarian or Romanian or Roma, I did not ask them, but they are referred to by everyone and in the newspapers there as gypsies, and most of them have emigrated from eastern europe. So that is all Im saying. Now let's be calm. I dont watch Alex Jones but twice or thrice a year, and stick to his financial and economic stuff only in limited little bursts. Ben Bernanke, the Fed, martial law, etc.... Nigel Farage seems a decent man to me, well educated and makes alot of sense really.

[Gandalf]

There are a higher proportion of people with degrees in Poland, Slovakia and the Czech republic than the UK. The UK has been overtaken by Poland , Portugal, The Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden the Czech Republic and Denmark. So your sweeping generalisation that most Polish people are not qualified to work in Universities around the world is just as inherently racist as saying the Palestinians are all terrorists. You have a friend back home ? what kind of intellectual weight is that supposed to carry ? You are extremely out of touch with the UK and just make Krap up. There are plenty of people working and buying property who are not immigrants but you have to look at the negative side of everything. Growth is not a positive unless Miles says it is

No, it isn't. A basic example is CNN and it's obsession with Dow Jones. Less than a single percent of Americans own shares directly. Only about 0.01% of the population controls most of those shares. Now, apparently the American economy is growing and Dow Jones is reaching all time highs! Well, it has come at the expense of the middle America and working class America who really haven't been growing. In that sense, growth is definitely a negative.

Over the past 30 years the Britain has been growing by cutting wages, erasing unions and encouraging people to live beyond their means. Again, the growth was a negative. People should have savings and be in control of their own destinies. The majority are not. It is a negative.

It is common sense, but you would obviously spin it.

[Dark Lord Al]

Beans both you and rayan man have failed to say what we do with the Romanians using parks as camps and toilets?
I'm just curious what you feel we should do with them.

Romanians in Istanbul?

Not all Romanians are Roma, only a tiny minority, just like Not all Romani live in cardboard boxes. Romanians and Bulgarians have enjoyed the right to come and wark in the UK as seasonal agricultural workers for the last 7 years. Now from January they will be able to come and do other work and so Farrage is shit stirring like Brockton because many are better educated than he is.

Beanz I'm talking about the ones in park lane , camping and shitting there , this isn't the only park in the uk this is happening.
So what do you suggest we do with these people who bring only a dirty blanket?
Just interested in your view.

[Gandalf]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

[Master]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

[Dark Lord Al]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

Are you saying they are not living in parks?

[Gandalf]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

In truth, I have only really considered immigration in terms of the accepted EU countries, and only now did a quick search about gypsies living in parks. Yet there do seem to be an awful lot of photos of gypsies living in parks.

This is not the kind of media I typically read, but surely Al must have a point as he keeps repeating it and there appears to be evidence of his argument.

Are there gypsies living in parks? And if so what on earth are they doing there? If they are Romanian and they aren't working, then surely they should just be deported.

[brocktonblockbust]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

Are you saying they are not living in parks?

Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.

[ryanman]

Just as a point of interest for now but here is a link to the full report I made reference to earlier regarding national identities of illegal immigrants in the UK.

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk.../7197/7197.pdf

I only post it as an aside to the issue being discussed regarding legal EU migrants.


Thats a 100 odd pages so noone will read it, so here is a summary article

UK Indymedia - Most illegal migrants likely to be white




A couple of lines from it -

"Long-stay immigrants into the UK from Poland, India and China are outnumbered by Germans, South Africans, North Americans, people from the white Commonwealth and returning Britons.

Official figures show that of the top ten migrant countries in 2008, 137,000 were from the first group and 152,000 from the second group.

There is no debate in the media, among politicians and among the public concerning North Americans and the white Commonwealth.

The fact that they ‘take jobs’ in the UK does not feature as an issue among those who are most concerned about immigration.

The anti-immigration campaign group Migration Watch and UKIP create fear about immigration numbers and fail to point out that immigrants include people from Australia, US, New Zealand and others.

In terms of all visitors and migrants into the UK, the report states: ‘Citizens of the United States of America (USA) comprised 32 per cent of total non-EEA admissions, the nationality with by far the most admissions, representing an increase of 6 per cent to 4.1 million in 2006. The next three nationalities with the highest numbers of admissions were Australia (up 8 per cent to 1.1 million), Canada (up 11 per cent to 1.0 million) and India (up 23 per cent to 0.8 million).’

It is likely that most illegal immigrants are from North America and white Commonwealth countries".



As I say, just an aside, but quite a pointed one. The truth of immigration in the UK is not fairly reflected in media spin, government policies or public attitudes.

[ryanman]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

Are you saying they are not living in parks?

Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.

If laws are being broken I would suggest dealing with them accordingly. Lawlessness is lawlessness.

[Dark Lord Al]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

Are you saying they are not living in parks?

Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.

If laws are being broken I would suggest dealing with them accordingly. Lawlessness is lawlessness.

I'm repeat to you and beans , for example the ones in park lane where sent home at cost to the taxpayer , within months the same people returned , so what do you think we should do with them ?
They are not the only ones.
Answer the question.

[ryanman]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

Are you saying they are not living in parks?

Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.

If laws are being broken I would suggest dealing with them accordingly. Lawlessness is lawlessness.

I'm repeat to you and beans , for example the ones in park lane where sent home at cost to the taxpayer , within months the same people returned , so what do you think we should do with them ?
They are not the only ones.
Answer the question.

Ask them to move. If they don't then forcibly move them. What do you suggest Al?