Where does Toney go from here?

[Gandalf]

I didnt start this thread with the purpose of it being taken over by juvenile abuse and insults. Sure its funny hearing someone take it to Lyle. But you only need to take it so far. This is a saddo boxing forum after all, not doghouse fecking forum...

Go there and be a couple of biatches....

Leave that gobshite stuff for James Toney and his pre fight build up against Wlad!!

To be frank, when comparing Toney and Wlad and how they matchup, well, there are some interesting posers....

Sure, maybe Toney isnt knocking people out, but he sure as heck hasnt been getting Knocked out...not even close...

Toney can handle going 12 rounds and be relaxed during the entire process....Wlad seldom goes the distance and he sure as heck didnt seem too relaxed against Peter....

Wlad, as pointed out earlier, has lost to fighters who are no way in the skill league of James Toney...

For me a fat bloated Toney still did as good a job against Peter as the supposedly "reborn" Wlad did...

I would love to see Toney take on Wlad and come in at a relatively trim 220pounds....if it goes past 6 and Toney has an effective response to that jab, then Wlad would be in for a tough night...

At heavyweight Toney is still Wlad's biggest threat IMO....Toney's last hurragh!! If he wins I would have a huge cheesy grin on my face for a long, long time!!!

[The Shadow]

This is a little much Shadow, I would expect more from you .....Allot of ethnic slurs and geographic condescending remarks, It was a little humorous for a second but your last couple posts are way over the top....

I think we should all move on now...were not exactly putting on a stellar performance for the guests checking out the board, the fact that we don't carry on like this with all the smacktalk, makes this the best damn forum in the world lets not lose sight of who we all are and what separates us from the rest....

I don't mind a good heated debate about Boxing and individual analysis but taking personal shots at someone is a bit juvenile.... Tempers will flare but shouldn't get out of control..........

Agreed. Think we just went a bit over the top. And it is pretty foolish and juvenile. Some people can just really get under your skin sometimes. Just go easy on the Irish racial slurs, Lyle. I'll abide by the same policy. No harm intended My Bad.

[Galaxy]

Just my 2 cents on Toney/ Wlad I feel Toney walks away with an easy decision. Wlad ain't got no skills, Toney will make him look more confused than Peter did IMO!!!

[The Shadow]

Just my 2 cents on Toney/ Wlad I feel Toney walks away with an easy decision. Wlad ain't got no skills, Toney will make him look more confused than Peter did IMO!!!

Well I give Wladdy his props for surviving Peter in their fight. He may have had the opportunity to KO Peter in the final round when he really wobbled him.
Let me make this clear: I don't like James Nathaniel Toney as a person; he's a loud mouth and talks a ton of trash which is somewhat entertaining but gets
old quick. However, I have to be able to seperate personality issues and assess individual boxing merit.

1- Did Toney, the ever crafty evasive and elusive fighter get hit too often against Peter? Yes
2- What does that say about Toney: Is he losing his skills that he displayed with virtuosity against Jirov? To a certain degree.
3- Can Toney take a HW punch from someone that hits like a 18 wheeler filled with a shipment of Pabst Blue Ribbon? Undoubtedly!
4- Does Toney have the work ethic to get down to a solid 225lbs where he belongs? Doubtful, but since he is at the end of the road, he better get busy quickly.

Toney is quite the enigma. He has all of these natural skills that 99.9% of boxers would die for and he seems to maintain a cavalier attitude about it. He just does enough, and in many cases that's just not enough. Although I think he won this fight, he should have been the much more dominant of the two. Peter has little to no skill as a boxer.

On the other hand, we have Wlad Klitschko:

1- Was brought through the euro-circuit, much like his brother, fighting euro-bum after euro-bum to ensure a more than respectable record.
2- Was exposed by a journey-man fighter by the name of Ross Purrity
3- Was demolished by Corrie Sanders
4- Couldn't take anywhere near the punches that Toney tuck in the Peter fight without flopping all over the canvas.


My point being: If Toney, even at his advanced age of 38 could take shots from one of the hardest hitters in the game and still have fight in him, what does that say about Wladdy? Sure, an impressive destruction against Chris "feather-fisted" Byrd, but when it comes down to it, the man can only punch and curls up like a girl when someone hits him.

Can Wladdy KO Toney? Sure, that's a possibliity, albeit an unlikely one.
Can Toney KO Wladdy? Absofukinlutely! If he was able to stun Peter and knock down Ruiz he can certainly take out china chin.

The question remains: How bad does Toney want it? By Recent evidence, he seems to be battling with his mouth instead of his hands.

I still think that a motivated Toney could simply befuddle BitchKO'd and where him out; eventually leading to a stoppage.

[El Kabong]

Agreed. Think we just went a bit over the top. And it is pretty foolish and juvenile. Some people can just really get under your skin sometimes. Just go easy on the Irish racial slurs, Lyle. I'll abide by the same policy. No harm intended My Bad.

Agreed, I actually like Irish people


but Ireland is a country and therefore Irish people are not a race but a geographic/political group. And before anything is said about politics, when you have a map that shows the countries boarders and so on it's called a "political map". I mean there are black Irish people I am sure....so you see where I'm going. But anywho I won't make anymore anti-Irish statements.

As for Wlad-Toney...I know James is tough, I know he's slick but you have to admit that Wlad would cause trouble for him. Wlad is bigger, stronger, and more accurate a puncher than anyone Toney has fought. I just don't think that Toney can stand up to the accuracy of such power punches for 12 rounds, I do think Wlad can out box Toney I mean hell he's outboxed everyone and Toney has been outboxed at lighter weights.

Either way it's pointless to talk about because Toney "lost" (I was hoping he got the decision but alas they went with the young onesided fighter instead) and James is going to have to step it up vs someone before getting a title shot.

To beat Wlad James will have to KO him and I just don't see it happening, it's not (in my mind) a likely scenario. I see Wlad UD as the most likely, Wlad KO/TKO, Toney TKO/KO, Draw, disqualification, Toney UD. Wlad is an extremely good boxer.

I never expected Peter to knock down James Toney, Toney's defense is PERFECT for guys who throw wide punches...the problem vs Wlad is that he's more accurate, his jab could kill you, and the pulling the defense down and right hand combination is pretty damn good he's very good at doing that.

That's all, Toney COULD win a title but I think he just needs to take on Ray Austin or Sultan Ibragimov and maybe Wlad will give him a shot but he'd be better off fighting Sergei

[El Kabong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu6oW2qRQBM

That is one reason I see Wlad doing well vs Toney because the right hand is sooo quick and powerful...granted James doesn't get hit by straight punches too often but everything flows off the jab and once Wlad sets that up the right hand will soon follow...I don't know if James can take 12 rounds of those right hands

[JT Rock]

I like Wlad's pawing jab and really has found it effective in keeping people at bay and setting up the right or the hook, match up wise I think Wlad can't leave the Jab out there against Toney cause of Wlad stays lazy with it and doesn't stiffen it up Toney will counter him all day........I don't know I listen to Lyle's analysis of this fight and all Wlad's attributes size, power, ability...Then I look at Wlad's short comings Stamina,Chin,Composure... I just look at those deficiencies of Wlad to play right into Toney's strengths...

If Wlad flicks that jab Toney will make him pay, which Wlad will lose composure, punch more lose steam and expose that chin....Toney has the psychological advantage over Wlad seeing Toney stayed on his feet against Peter and was barely rocked and NEVER a nervous moment....Toney did absorb some Illegal back of the head blows as well....

only way Toney does this if he comes in 10lbs lighter than he did against Peter, Wlad moves exceptionally well for a big man and throws straighter accurate punches even when Wlad hooks he doesn't loop, so Toney has to be even more alert

I like the Idea of Having Emanuel Steward in Wlads corner and Freddy Roach in Toneys....Contrary to popular belief this fight will go into the later rounds and thats were it will be decided......Toney gets the edge in mind games since I dont think thereare many James "Lights Out"Toney personality types in the Ukraine..LOL!!

I still cant predict a winner but at least I can somewhat sort out the variables

[Lords Gym]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu6oW2qRQBM

That is one reason I see Wlad doing well vs Toney because the right hand is sooo quick and powerful...granted James doesn't get hit by straight punches too often but everything flows off the jab and once Wlad sets that up the right hand will soon follow...I don't know if James can take 12 rounds of those right hands

yeah Wlad can crack with that right, no doubt about that. Toney at 233 gets laid out, IMO if James came in correct 217, he has a better chance getting deeper in the fight, and the deeper he gets the best his chances of winning.

[El Kabong]

Or at least at a lighter weight his punch output increases and he makes Wlad move around the ring...if he just sits on the ropes that right will be flying towards him all night

[Lords Gym]

Or at least at a lighter weight his punch output increases and he makes Wlad move around the ring...if he just sits on the ropes that right will be flying towards him all night

you got that right ! , a cemented Toney is a sitting duck ! cause Wlad can damn sure turn up the heat when he has a target sitting in front of him

[El Kabong]

And if you don't make Wlad move he doesn't use AS MUCH energy and therefore he's able to focus it all in punching...and that's bad news for ANYONE.

Brewster made him move, Sanders just jumped out and swung for the fences which would be tough for anyone to handle not just Wlad, Purrity took a heap of punishment before Wlad gased out.

I just can't see Toney making him do any of those although Toney's best shot is to take the punishment and hope Wlad runs out of steam but vs Byrd and Peter he paced himself and it paid off

[Lords Gym]

Really Toney's only shot at winning is to be lighter, and that aint likely . Toney's ego and love for the Mexican food will keep him plump . and like you said James would not be able to sit there and take them Klitcho punches, no way. Wlad can put them together and when he has a sitting target Wlad shines ! , That where Peter had problems , Sam had opportunities to close the show, but not the experience , putting punches together is foreign to Sam Peter, and that’s what you got to do when your facing a slick fighter like Toney, put punches together, cause Toney will block the 1st ,2,and 3rd shot a lot of times , but the 4th 5th and 6. can get in .
.

[TyBuff]

This is a little much Shadow, I would expect more from you .....Allot of ethnic slurs and geographic condescending remarks, It was a little humorous for a second but your last couple posts are way over the top....

I think we should all move on now...were not exactly putting on a stellar performance for the guests checking out the board, the fact that we don't carry on like this with all the smacktalk, makes this the best damn forum in the world lets not lose sight of who we all are and what separates us from the rest....

I don't mind a good heated debate about Boxing and individual analysis but taking personal shots at someone is a bit juvenile.... Tempers will flare but shouldn't get out of control..........

Very well put JT cc. Everybody has an opinion and what makes this place great is that 99% of the time everybody will acknowledge if not respect it.

[JT Rock]

This is a little much Shadow, I would expect more from you .....Allot of ethnic slurs and geographic condescending remarks, It was a little humorous for a second but your last couple posts are way over the top....

I think we should all move on now...were not exactly putting on a stellar performance for the guests checking out the board, the fact that we don't carry on like this with all the smacktalk, makes this the best damn forum in the world lets not lose sight of who we all are and what separates us from the rest....

I don't mind a good heated debate about Boxing and individual analysis but taking personal shots at someone is a bit juvenile.... Tempers will flare but shouldn't get out of control..........

Very well put JT cc. Everybody has an opinion and what makes this place great is that 99% of the time everybody will acknowledge if not respect it.

Thanks Bro...Just trying to keep the peace LOL!!! back to you

[The Shadow]

Agreed. Think we just went a bit over the top. And it is pretty foolish and juvenile. Some people can just really get under your skin sometimes. Just go easy on the Irish racial slurs, Lyle. I'll abide by the same policy. No harm intended My Bad.

Agreed, I actually like Irish people


but Ireland is a country and therefore Irish people are not a race but a geographic/political group. And before anything is said about politics, when you have a map that shows the countries boarders and so on it's called a "political map". I mean there are black Irish people I am sure....so you see where I'm going. But anywho I won't make anymore anti-Irish statements.

As for Wlad-Toney...I know James is tough, I know he's slick but you have to admit that Wlad would cause trouble for him. Wlad is bigger, stronger, and more accurate a puncher than anyone Toney has fought. I just don't think that Toney can stand up to the accuracy of such power punches for 12 rounds, I do think Wlad can out box Toney I mean hell he's outboxed everyone and Toney has been outboxed at lighter weights.

Either way it's pointless to talk about because Toney "lost" (I was hoping he got the decision but alas they went with the young onesided fighter instead) and James is going to have to step it up vs someone before getting a title shot.

To beat Wlad James will have to KO him and I just don't see it happening, it's not (in my mind) a likely scenario. I see Wlad UD as the most likely, Wlad KO/TKO, Toney TKO/KO, Draw, disqualification, Toney UD. Wlad is an extremely good boxer.

I never expected Peter to knock down James Toney, Toney's defense is PERFECT for guys who throw wide punches...the problem vs Wlad is that he's more accurate, his jab could kill you, and the pulling the defense down and right hand combination is pretty damn good he's very good at doing that.

That's all, Toney COULD win a title but I think he just needs to take on Ray Austin or Sultan Ibragimov and maybe Wlad will give him a shot but he'd be better off fighting Sergei

Honestly, Lyle. Why do you think he lost? There are many friends that I have that box and are much older than me. They said that it was mostly a policy decision. In other words, they don't want a trash-talking scatterbrain holding a belt - they want to clean up boxing.