London will be overrun by 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians

[ryanman]

Park Lane gypsies back with a vengeance – just THREE DAYS after being turfed out by police | UK | News | Daily Express

Why are these Romanians already in the UK then if they are only now opening up the labour market? How do these people get to live in parks and seemingly in entire family groups and yet if I want my spouse to live in the UK, I must first get a job earning more than 18,500 pounds a year? I am actually English! Oh, the irony of a fucked up country!

Never read the daily express or mail because they distort reality to suit their own sick agenda.

Are you saying they are not living in parks?

Al nobody will put their neck out and say what to do, they are avoiding our questions.

Bullshit Steve and you know it is. You are simply putting your fingers in your ears and throwing your lot in with the herd. You are again insisting the Roma and Romanian, Roma and Bulgarian are Interchangable. You are ignoring the fact that there are already laws in place to remove people sleeping in parks and that they are being removed. The Daily Express Article is sullied not only by the ridiculous biased attemot at journalism but is also littered with Xenophobic scumbags on the comments pages saying things like

"It's a pity Hitler missed them during the War."

followed by
"Vote ukip"

which is Farrages party. Do you really want to be associated with numbskulls like that?

There only spin being put on the whole debate is the blatant lies being told by Nigel , Miles and sadly yourself in trying to paint the legal migration of working Bulgarians and Romanians as something it expressly is not.

Beans answer my question regarding what you do with people living in parks?
Also how many employees , hire a worker with no fixed abode?

Why should I answer your question? apparently I am just a peasant what would I know ? Your aggressive tone does you no favours.

Stop discriminating against people and treating them like shit. Give them equal access to education, housing and employment and if they refuse to contribute to society and insist on breaking the law then use the law of the country that they break the law in to punish them. This is common sense. Nobody is suggesting that illegal migration or begging are in any way comparable to the migration of legal workers but yourself ,Miles, Nigel and Brockton.

Firstly I didn't say you are a peasant , I don't think that either by the way.
However I fail to see how we can give housing and education and healthcare to people who are from poorer countries when our own financial state is in a terrible condition.
You can't honestly believe that all the people who are going to flood in are going to be educated with money to buy houses, that's my point we can't sustain a mass of people coming here , because if we don't have the housing then what the hell are we going to do?
I'm sorry if I'm not comfortable giving away taxpayers money to people who I don't feel deserve it.
I am also sorry if I have offended you , it is difficult to get your exact view across via text alone , so apologies Beanz if you felt I was directly attacking you because that was never even in my mind.

I am sorry if I took what you said the wrong way and I accept your apology and offer mine for any offence caused. No I do not believe people should be able to come here and claim benefits with no intention of working either but unless we leave the EU we can not have different rules for Romania and Bulgaria simply because they have Romani Gypsies as part of their population.

6 pages in a nutshell for me right there.

[Beanz]

Some Romani Gypsies that you may not have been aware of

[ryanman]

Breaking the quote tree.

The thing is, would closing our borders really help us get back on our feet?

I'm from a school of thought that thinks that if Britain was to become isolationalist then it would eventually revert from being the world's 6th largest economy to a small island, with a middling population and average resources. We would eventually, in a few generations become the nation we by rights should be (ie a lot less influential and thus wealthy). It is our connections and influence, borne thorugh the empire and multiple wars that give us the inflated position we have 'enjoyed' our the past 2 centuries. One of the primary ways this influence manifests itself is as a key member of the EU.

[Dark Lord Al]

Breaking the quote tree.

The thing is, would closing our borders really help us get back on our feet?

I'm from a school of thought that thinks that if Britain was to become isolationalist then it would eventually revert from being the world's 6th largest economy to a small island, with a middling population and average resources. We would eventually, in a few generations become the nation we by rights should be (ie a lot less influential and thus wealthy). It is our connections and influence, borne thorugh the empire and multiple wars that give us the inflated position we have 'enjoyed' our the past 2 centuries. One of the primary ways this influence manifests itself is as a key member of the EU.

Well unless I have the discussion with Beanz and yourself face to face I'd rather leave it at this point as some of my comments have offended people , yes we disagree but that's life I guess.

[Gandalf]

On the other side of the coin, how about Korea? Similar sized country, it controls immigration, and is world known for its manufacturing brands. Britain has become a police state, as Korea then was. Why not make the most of what you are and begin again as a police state. Nationalise all the nations utilities, free transport for all, and give British workers a job. Plus like Korea you could abolish the monarchy!

To be isolationist doesn't mean you don't trade, it just means that Eastern Europeans will always be ignored. Britain has been sold on the 'service' industry model which really just means that you don't make anything and just rip everyone off in services. In other words my 3 pound hair cut will cost 15 in England. My washing machine fixed for free is 50 quid in England. Really that took place because Britain sold itself on the nonsense of globalisation which really meant putting factories overseas and paying more for services.

Britain could start again and considering it can create the worlds most efficient spy technology, it can put that complete waste of time to good use in effective products. The brains have always been there.

[El Kabong]

South Korea may not have an issue with gypsies but they do have miles....that can't be fun

[Gandalf]

I'm not exactly hilarious, but I don't fuck around in parks. I do a job, I pay my taxes, I invest money, I do all the things that Granny in the park really isn't. You want homeless people then open up Buckingham Palace. Seriously, why not? They asked to open up markets, then provide housing.

[ryanman]

I'm not exactly hilarious, but I don't fuck around in parks. I do a job, I pay my taxes, I invest money, I do all the things that Granny in the park really isn't. You want homeless people then open up Buckingham Palace. Seriously, why not? They asked to open up markets, then provide housing.

I too have never done a poo in a park and furthermore I condemn those that do! It's really not on. That's something we can all agree on.

[brocktonblockbust]

you people are nutters. No country on earth wants any kind of immigrants sleeping in parks and defecating/urinating to ruin it for families who want to enjoy the parks on the weekends. Just because some lunatics mention Hitler doesnt mean we can demonize a whole party or Mr farage either. He certainly didnt say that Hitler should have killed anybody, that is going way too far in paranoia.

I personally think the UK shoudl leave the doomed EU Joke. I remember in 1989 doing my Masters, there was this mantra going around "EU '92" and people used to chant it. Never happened, came maybe 10 years late, and after 10 more years it has totally collapsed. The whole EU concept is a sham and a scam. It hasnt worked, they are trying to prop it up desperately, only making matters worse, the UK will be dragged down into the shit if it remains.

[Beanz]

How dare you twist things to make it be about demonizing Farrage and a political party. What a fucking hypocrite. You have the nerve to castigate Lyle about being duped by the two party system whilst sucking up to "Mr Farrage" and his propaganda. Not only that but you fall for it hook,line and sinker and then lecture the UK on whether it should be in the EU. You insist on taking the example of a proportion of an ethnic group that is itself a minority in the two countries in question and then judging millions of other unrelated people based on that. There are Romani everywhere, all over Europe, in America, Canada, Brazil, they are a nomadic people nearly wiped out by Hitler. Like the Jews this was only possible by dehumanizing them and treating them like animals. The aboriginal people of Australia are dismissed with similar arguments. "They want to live like that", "They need to stop drinking" as though they are beyond redemption and everything they suffer is no more than they deserve. I am not do easily persuaded by the fact that you and Miles have Asian wives that you are somehow beyond prejudice. Your insistence on calling Obama "Sotero" and Miles bigoted generalisations of Americans and insistence on calling disabled people "handicapped " makes that clear.

[Andre]

How dare you twist things to make it be about demonizing Farrage and a political party. What a fucking hypocrite. You have the nerve to castigate Lyle about being duped by the two party system whilst sucking up to "Mr Farrage" and his propaganda. Not only that but you fall for it hook,line and sinker and then lecture the UK on whether it should be in the EU. You insist on taking the example of a proportion of an ethnic group that is itself a minority in the two countries in question and then judging millions of other unrelated people based on that. There are Romani everywhere, all over Europe, in America, Canada, Brazil, they are a nomadic people nearly wiped out by Hitler. Like the Jews this was only possible by dehumanizing them and treating them like animals. The aboriginal people of Australia are dismissed with similar arguments. "They want to live like that", "They need to stop drinking" as though they are beyond redemption and everything they suffer is no more than they deserve. I am not do easily persuaded by the fact that you and Miles have Asian wives that you are somehow beyond prejudice. Your insistence on calling Obama "Sotero" and Miles bigoted generalisations of Americans and insistence on calling disabled people "handicapped " makes that clear.

Just to clear that up: They were dsmissed by the English that ran this place,it was against agreed practice between colonizing countries; that you couldnt just go in and take what wasnt yours.So you had to make a deal of some sorts. Nomadic Aboriginals in the main areas said "sure thing use the land as we do", it isnt a belonging. We cannot just deal mother earth away to one group". "We reap it for a season,burn it,cleanse it rejuvenate it then come back in 6 years or so and around we go again with the seasons."

This stumped the British who wanted ownership in return for blankets beads and usual bullshit. So they said these natives cant be reckoned with and promptly went to the bench and got a law passed classifying Aboriginals as flora and fauna (non human) so if required could be eradicated as such.

The drinking is a horror for them, (THEY SHOULD STOP ) it is killing them faster than whites who drink the same way). Similar to the American indians they have been quartered off into sections away from (well to do white folks who run the whole show) with no work available in those given sections no hope for advancements they are bored and turn to what ever they can turn to. They are of a different dna make up to us white devils and suffer worse horrors than we do when exposed to our bullshit.Maybe our diseases that killed a lot of the off weakened the few left not sure. But they cant cope with spirits in the liquid form like we can.Some will drink mentholated spirits too,so what does whitey do? Put a color and a poison in there thinking that will stop them .

[brocktonblockbust]

How dare you twist things to make it be about demonizing Farrage and a political party. What a fucking hypocrite. You have the nerve to castigate Lyle about being duped by the two party system whilst sucking up to "Mr Farrage" and his propaganda. Not only that but you fall for it hook,line and sinker and then lecture the UK on whether it should be in the EU. You insist on taking the example of a proportion of an ethnic group that is itself a minority in the two countries in question and then judging millions of other unrelated people based on that. There are Romani everywhere, all over Europe, in America, Canada, Brazil, they are a nomadic people nearly wiped out by Hitler. Like the Jews this was only possible by dehumanizing them and treating them like animals. The aboriginal people of Australia are dismissed with similar arguments. "They want to live like that", "They need to stop drinking" as though they are beyond redemption and everything they suffer is no more than they deserve. I am not do easily persuaded by the fact that you and Miles have Asian wives that you are somehow beyond prejudice. Your insistence on calling Obama "Sotero" and Miles bigoted generalisations of Americans and insistence on calling disabled people "handicapped " makes that clear.

Beanz you need to calm down, you are going tooooo farrrrrr. A little self-control please. We all get upset about shit, but please, is this logical that worrying about waves of poor people (some of whom have committed enormous ATM crime in the UK recently) means that the next step is to gas them? That is nuts. YOu are going from Step 1 to Step 35 all in one step. That's the type of shit that Alex Jones does, he sees one little strand of something and he goes straight to the conclusion that such-and-such will happen because of this or that. Surely you can calm down a bit. IT IS VERY TYRANNICAL to accuse someone of being an Adolf Hitler. Wow. C'mon man. I'm a vegetarian and cannot even hurt a fly. Gassing people or dehumanizing them is pure evil and you should not imply that that is what I or Al or Miles are suggesting. Please come to your senses. @Greenbeanz @Dark Lord Al

[Gandalf]

This has nothing to do with prejudice on my part, GB. I am angry about America (as everybody should be) and I also don't give a hoot for the paralympics, but that has nothing to do with anything in this thread. My being married to someone and living successfully in a different culture also has nothing to do with this thread. I am against uncontrolled immigration for pragmatical social and economic reasons.

I have explained my point of view repeatedly, but it is you that express the Guardian reader point of view (which you accuse me of!). The typical Guardian reader is not on the same level as the tabloid media reader, the immigrants are largely coming after the jobs of the tabloid reader and of course they are angry and fearful. History says that they are right.

That's where I find it funny that you can accuse me of being a snob. I'm on the side of the ordinary English worker. He is being ripped off, ignored at the ballot box, and is desperate. If I was a true snob, I would say let them all in, as in truth, I have nothing to lose. I don't want that to be though.

I think the common concerns are correct ones and that the system is an elite tool to purposely cause social fragementation, and then you factor in Britain being a police state. Well, it all makes sense. There will be unrest, of course you need to control communications.

[Dia bando]

My take on this is we have our own unskilled labour, do we really need more no, more people
coming in with no skills.
The labour force is flooded with unskilled people, common sense tell us ALL we don't need
any more.
Why let more people into poverty, poor is poor weather your here or in any eastern block country
the facts are, we have people in poverty in this country, adding more people into the poverty
trap is stupid is it not.

[Gandalf]

My take on this is we have our own unskilled labour, do we really need more no, more people
coming in with no skills.
The labour force is flooded with unskilled people, common sense tell us ALL we don't need
any more.
Why let more people into poverty, poor is poor weather your here or in any eastern block country
the facts are, we have people in poverty in this country, adding more people into the poverty
trap is stupid is it not.

Poverty is relative though. If you are earning 6 times the Romanian minimum wage in the UK, you will make sacrifices that the English worker will say 'Bugger off' to. The English worker wouldn't go there to earn a sixth, and so it is a terrible equation. Poverty is poverty, but why should you need to reduce working class wages continually and that is all that unchecked immigration does.