Barrera vs. Marquez - Disgrace!!!

[Pugilistic]

yeah i wasn't to happy about the decision either. no disrespect to marquez as he is a great fighter and proved it was pretty damn good but i'm sure most people had barrera ahead and i was really impressed with the fight unfortnately it was ruined by shitty scoring

[Memphis]

if he had fallen down, then I agree, if he had been knocked down (and it was called) and was getting up I would agree but it was neither of those cases.

It has to be one of them though doesnt it?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

if he had fallen down, then I agree, if he had been knocked down (and it was called) and was getting up I would agree but it was neither of those cases. Who checks to see if their gloves are on the floor when they're bent over at the waist and in the process of rising? Target, hit it.

He did go down!!!
He went down from a punch, his knees (and gloves) clearly hit the canvas. He was getting up, and got clocked by a dirty punch.
When an opponent hits the canvas, whether it's because of a knockdown, a slip, a push, or whatever.... you wait for him to stand up and get back on his feet. You don't hover over him with your right hand cocked back, ready to sucker punch him.

The people who are defending Barrera in this instance either:
a. haven't seen the tape of what happened
or
b. are even more in love with Barrera than Jim Lampley

I'm discussing the nature of the touchdown. If it was a slip, where was nady to step in? Nowhere. Was it a knockdown? No, Nady didn't call it as that either. If it was a slip why wasn't nady between them? To call a halt to the action and then wave them on?

so you're now saying he was up? Therefore it's ok to hit him.

[Memphis]

What your saying is if the ref is a little slow out of the blocks the rules dont count?

Did Barrera consider it a knockdown? you bet he did. Did he recognise that Marquez was down and therefore shouldnt hit him? The slight pause and then 'Im going to do it anyway' would suggest that he did.

[SweetPea]

if he had fallen down, then I agree, if he had been knocked down (and it was called) and was getting up I would agree but it was neither of those cases. Who checks to see if their gloves are on the floor when they're bent over at the waist and in the process of rising? Target, hit it.

He did go down!!!
He went down from a punch, his knees (and gloves) clearly hit the canvas. He was getting up, and got clocked by a dirty punch.
When an opponent hits the canvas, whether it's because of a knockdown, a slip, a push, or whatever.... you wait for him to stand up and get back on his feet. You don't hover over him with your right hand cocked back, ready to sucker punch him.

The people who are defending Barrera in this instance either:
a. haven't seen the tape of what happened
or
b. are even more in love with Barrera than Jim Lampley

I'm discussing the nature of the touchdown. If it was a slip, where was nady to step in? Nowhere. Was it a knockdown? No, Nady didn't call it as that either. If it was a slip why wasn't nady between them? To call a halt to the action and then wave them on?

so you're now saying he was up? Therefore it's ok to hit him.

The "nature" of the touchdown is absolutely pointless.

Are we in agreement that Marquez went down to the canvas with his knees and gloves?? If the answer is "yes," then I don't see what else there is to argue.

If he went to the canvas, then any boxer with a functioning brain (and Barrera is a smart guy) knows that it is illegal to hit an opponent either while he is down on the canvas, or while he is in the process of pulling himself up.

It doesn't matter if Barrera thought it was a knockdown.
It doesn't matter if Barrera thought Marquez slipped.
It doesn't matter if Nady was late in getting between them.
It doesn't matter if Barrera was unsure whether Nady was going to rule it a knockdown or a slip.

All that matters is that Marquez went down right in front of Barrera's eyes. Therefore, if Barrera didn't know that he was doing something wrong by throwing another punch several seconds after Marquez went down, then Barrera is either blind or mentally incompentent.

Or it could be another answer.... that he's a dirty fighter at times and decided to break a rule.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

damn 'puter ate my reply.

Of course it matters. Is he down is he up? He's getting up the ref doesn't call a break so he hits him.

[SweetPea]

damn 'puter ate my reply.

Of course it matters. Is he down is he up? He's getting up the ref doesn't call a break so he hits him.

Refs call "break" when two fighters who are standing on their feet are in a clinch.
He doesn't call break when one guy is on the canvas, and trying to begin the act of standing back up.

I will ask again... are we in agreement that Marquez's knees and gloves hit the canvas after the initial legal punch that Barrera landed?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

I can't understand why you're laying all this blame at MAB's door when it's clear that Nady fucked up big time. If it was a slip then you get between the two fighters dust the guy who slipped down and resume the fight. If it's a knock down then score it. He did neither.
I've seen it happen loads of times just as I've seen loads of fighters touch down, pop back up and get tagged again for their trouble, it happens.

[Memphis]

If it was a slip then you get between the two fighters dust the guy who slipped down and resume the fight.

Thats what he tried to do though didnt he? He clearly saw it as a slip. He is guilty of taking up a bad position but nothing more.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

well he's the only one who didn't see it.

MAB stood waiting for the call that didn't come.

[Gandalf]

I can't understand why you're laying all this blame at MAB's door when it's clear that Nady fucked up big time. If it was a slip then you get between the two fighters dust the guy who slipped down and resume the fight. If it's a knock down then score it. He did neither.
I've seen it happen loads of times just as I've seen loads of fighters touch down, pop back up and get tagged again for their trouble, it happens.

The more ive been thinking about this the more I am inclined this way. Nady was nowhere to be seen for an absolute age. He was completely incompetent in that situation.

A great fight but somewhat marred for me by what happened in that round. For me if that round went as it should there could be no question of doubt at all in my mind about Barrera winning it and convincingly so...

[CutMeMick]

DAMN! IT I MISSED THIS DEBATE.....

OK for those who said MAB is a fighter and hes just doing his job to keep punching untill hes told to stop.....

Well then lets just throw the rules out the window and turn boxing to UFC....
I mean haven't you guys heard the refs. pre-fight instructions in the dressing rooms?
He clearly states IF there is a knockdown you must immidiately go to a nuetral corner and stay there......
I mean how many times have we not seen once a fighter knocksdown an opponent he knocks him down and steps back and goes to his corner even before the ref. starts counting?
Fact of the matter is MAB punched JMM while he was down and MAB knew he was down regardless if Nady ruled it a knockdown or not.

I mean I'm sure you read the post-fight quote I put on here about what MAB said it's there what's the issue here hes even saying what he did.....

Also look at the picture Saddo posted you can clearly see Nady trying to stop MABs hand but MAB countinues with the punch.....

I'll say it again he was very lucky that he didn't get DQ'd for what he did, I'm sure the DQ crossed Nadys mind but I'm willing to bet in those split seconds he thought about it and prefered to just deduct a point.....

[Howlin Mad Missy]

He clearly states IF there is a knockdown you must immidiately go to a nuetral corner and stay there......


Nady didn't call a knock down or slip, he did bugger all, Barrera paused, Nady paused Barrera went to clip JMM and Nady then pulled him away.

[jbirdy]

i saw nothing but neglegence on nady's behalf. barrera was almost out on his feet before the knockdown and nady should have been about ready to dive in if a stoppage was neccesary. but then "whack" and JMM goes down (in what was clearly a legit knockdown) and nady wasnt on the cse and quick to do his job like he should have been and instead was way too slow to react. it is not a tickeling competition in the ring and no one is trying to win the best behaved boy scout badge either. if i was fighting JMM and he was knocked down and getting up again and the ref had done fuck all i would have hit him again aswell. nady should have been a lot quicker to react in a fight as action packed as this one and he should have pounced on the knockdown the second it happened. he should have got between the fighters, sent barrera to a nuteral corner and given JMM a count.

[SweetPea]

I can't understand why you're laying all this blame at MAB's door when it's clear that Nady fucked up big time. If it was a slip then you get between the two fighters dust the guy who slipped down and resume the fight. If it's a knock down then score it. He did neither.

So you're saying that after 18 years of professional boxing, Barrera still doesn't know the rules, and needs to rely on the ref to tell him everything? Come on. The man went down to the canvas right in front of Barrera's eyes! As soon as that happens, it should register in Barrera's brain that there is going to be a break in the action (because it's either a knockdown or a slip) and that he needs to back up and wait for action to be restored. Instead, as soon as Marquez went to the ground, Barrera decided to stand over him with his right hand cocked and ready to throw a punch. He tried to throw an illegal punch, got his arm grabbed by Nady, then still tried again and on the second attempt landed the illegal shot!!!!!!

I've seen it happen loads of times just as I've seen loads of fighters touch down, pop back up and get tagged again for their trouble, it happens.

Could you please name some of the fights where you've seen this?