Is Mayweather a all time great?

[Beanz]

In the end, people can judge p4p, atg, ect with whatever criteria they want. If certain people want to believe that Floyd is a scrub, or that he's simply a "good" fighter who cherry picked his way to an undefeated (as of now, anyway) career, that's their prerogative. In the end, I think you really have to look at how dominant the athlete was and whether or not they were fighting world class opposition, and you have to look at the in-ring ability.

Floyd's record (46-0) in itself isn't impressive. There have been many others who have gone 40 plus - 0. JCC Jr was 46-0 before he lost to Martinez. His dad went to 89-0. Spadafora was 48-0. Valuev was 46-0. Sven Ottke retired at 36-0. Greatness is more than having a pretty record (and that goes for the old timers who have over 200 wins).

But for a guy to go 16 years of fighting at the world class level - which is all champions and top 10 contenders - without slipping once is incredible. And it's not like a Sven Ottke thing where he fought nobodies in virtually all his fights. People talk about Floyd's path like it was safe and he was never in any danger, which is ridiculous, because just think of how many guys in boxing history have been upset by guys who, in hindsight, didn't even belong in the ring with them. Sugar Ray Robinson ran into a bunch of guys that either beat him or gave him the fight of his life. Guys who will show up nobodies top 10, 20, 30, 50 or even 100. Guys like Basora and Brimm. It's always dangerous to be the #1 guy with a target on his back and fighting top ranked guys.

What makes a fighter? Skill, athleticism, heart, boxing IQ, discipline, determination, versatility, ability to absorb punishment, ect.

If you really think about it, how many guys can you name who showed all of these things simultaneously, at an elite level?

There are tons of guys with fantastic athleticism, but they never had the skill to go with it. There are guys who had great skill, but no athleticism to go with it. There are guys who had it all except discipline, and would under train, take guys lightly, and/or eat themselves up into weight classes they had no business fighting in.

You've had insanely talented guys (Zab Judah) who were mental midgets and lacked the discipline to stick to a game plan and the determination to find a way to win. There were guys who had it all, but unfortunately didn't have the god-given ability to take a punch. A lot of guys were great, but were one dimensional and lacked the versatility needed to adapt when they came up to someone who their style didn't work against. Some guys couldn't bust a grape with a punch.

When you really look at it, the guy's who had it all - world class athleticism, skill, boxing IQ, discipline, heart, durability, ect - it's a very short list. You're talking guys like Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Ali, ect. And you're talking Floyd Mayweather. These guys were all special athletes in the sport and they all had their haters in their time. These kinds of fighters don't come around very often so you have to appreciate them while they're here.

A top 3 is a short list, a top 5 is a short list, a top 10 is a short list. What are you trying to say? Surely anyone making a list of 20 is an ATG?

[walrus]

Just a reminder, showtime replay entire Floyd event this eve at 9:30p. I'll watch it but not Broner. I'm really interested in researching Maidana. I notice so much more second time around as the anticipation level has decreased.

[mrbig1]

I watch the fight for the first time. I had Floyd winning 115-113. I will say Floyd is a cry baby bitch during the fight.

[Beanflicker]

A top 3 is a short list, a top 5 is a short list, a top 10 is a short list. What are you trying to say? Surely anyone making a list of 20 is an ATG?

I'm not sure what you're asking me or what your point is. Anyone in the top 20 is an ATG, I never disputed that.

My overall point is that if you consider Floyd's in-ring skill (which is second to only a few, if any) and the fact that he has fought nothing but top-ranked competition for 16 years and has (thus far) remained unbeaten, it would be absolutely ridiculous to deny him of, at the very least, a spot in the top 10 of all time.

He was (and still is) a special, once-in-a-lifetime athlete who has beaten just about every style and body type that was thrown at him.

[Beanflicker]

Those are factors that made him a great fighter. Get over yourself and off Floyd's dick and pay attention.

Pay attention to what? Complete nonsense?

Being exciting has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the fighter.

Go to your nearest bar and find the two biggest guys there and throw them in the ring. It'll be exciting because it'll be two meatheads just throwing as hard as they can until one gets brutally KO'd. Does that mean they are great fighters?

Being boring is actually more of a sign of being great, because it usually means that you're completely dominant and you're not taking punishment.

It's amazing to me that you could not only be so woefully stupid, but actually ARROGANT in your idiocy, like you're somehow putting me in my place by saying something that is so stupid it almost defies response.

Go sit at the kids table and watch some more boxing tapes, and come back to the adult table when you feel you can actually contribute to a discussion.

[Master]

Punch power and entertainment are factors when assessing great fighters. Hearns has that over Floyd who is also a great fighter.

[Beanflicker]

Punch power and entertainment are factors when assessing great fighters.

No. No they are not.

Go sit at the kid's table.

[Beanflicker]

LOL I'm actually laughing out loud at that.

HEY, WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD WIN BETWEEN ALI AND MARCIANO??

I DUNNO, ALI WAS FASTER AND HAD THE JAB, BUT MARCIANO HAD THE EXCITEMENT EDGE ON HIM.

Who the fuck thinks like that? Hahahaha, the shit you hear on boxing forums.

[Master]

Punch power and entertainment are factors when assessing great fighters.

No. No they are not.

Go sit at the kid's table.

Why not?

I will sit at the kids table only if there is a hot teacher there.

[Beanflicker]

Because being exciting as nothing to do with how good a fighter is. I think that's a pretty simple concept to understand.

[Beanflicker]

If we use excitement as a criteria to determine how great a fighter is, do we also use good looks as well? lol. Who had the best hair? Smile? Who dressed the best? Who had the better personality?

What is excitement in boxing? Competitiveness. Violence. Hitting and getting hit. Back and forth action.

If you're really good at boxing like Floyd is, you don't get hit and your fights aren't competitive.

This is a very simple concept. I don't know what it is about boxing in particular that draws in the morons.

[bradlee180]

I don't know what it is about boxing in particular that draws in the morons.

...so just tell us why you personally have been drawn to Boxing, then you'll know the answer to your own question!

[Master]

If we use excitement as a criteria to determine how great a fighter is, do we also use good looks as well? lol. Who had the best hair? Smile? Who dressed the best? Who had the better personality?

What is excitement in boxing? Competitiveness. Violence. Hitting and getting hit. Back and forth action.

If you're really good at boxing like Floyd is, you don't get hit and your fights aren't competitive.

This is a very simple concept. I don't know what it is about boxing in particular that draws in the morons.

When we are talking about ATG and where they rank against one another then excitement is a factor. Hearns is higher in my view because of this criteria.

Also stop talking down to me you conceited pompous ass.

[fan johnny]

The people who say Money is not a ATG don't like him as a person. That should have nothing to do with the greatness of a fighter. I just use my eyes. What he has done in the ring and who he has beat. JMM is a guy who gave Pacman pure hell. In fact you can make a case that Pac never beat him even at his best. That takes nothing away from Pac it's just JMM is a outstanding fighter. The same guy that Floyd made a fool out of. If that's not great then I don't know what is.

You mean unlike yourself? How can anyone outside mayweather's circle of friends know who he is, when all they see is his persona? So where do you rank Chris John?

[Mr140]

I Rank Mayeather in the top 15 because a lot of fighters over 100 years who have achieved a lot and different eras make it hard to put them all together on a list. Also Hearns i think deserves to be in same sentence as Mayweather head to head he is fucking nightmare for Mayweather and resume i say is the same if not better. I think him icing Duran, out boxing Benitez and Moving up and beating a undefeated Hill who was on a roll and after losing keep going undefeated till Dm. That just as good as anything that Mayweather has done in his career so he lost to Lenonard and Hagler i think Mayweather would to. I don't know why people are down playing Hearns hear he was a great fighter who fought form ww to cw. I think the only fighters i have in my top 10 are Sugar Ray Robinson and Sugar Ray Leonard and then it changes around a lot.