American confederate flag

[SlimTrae]

I guess my take is very much influenced by me being a civil war buff. War wise, Robert E Lee was a brilliant tactician.. Stone wall Jackson, another great mind. .

What is your take on how or why the Confederate lost? Feel free to educate me- as I am going from vague memory of what I thought to be the truth: The confederates were whipping the Yankees every which a way- so it was a blockade? The stopping of ships or fuel/sustenance that bled them out of resources? Meaning the Northerners never really beat them hand to hand combat wise?

[SlimTrae]

The Confederate Flag has always been a slap in the face to blacks as a reminder of what once was.
The Confederate Flag has always stood for stupidity, ignorance, and blind pride. In my opinion!

Alright then my first question would be "Why then don't blacks feel the same way about the American flag, British flag, Dutch flag, Spanish flag, Portuguese flag, Brazilian flag, etc?" seeing how those flags were on the slave ships and NOT any form of the Confederate flag.

You opinion differs greatly from the opinions of THESE folks






....now the tricky thing with "feelings" and "emotions" is that we all have them, but which ones matter more because right now we're at a crossroads and 1 group is saying "that's a hateful flag, it always has been and it always will be" and we have another group that feels differently.....who is right? Are you right because your feelings are hurt by the flag? Are those people in the video right because of their views? I've got my views and that is the flag doesn't belong at the South Carolina state capitol because of why is was put there, HOWEVER, the flag itself should be flown/shown at memorials, Battlefields, at markers for Confederate dead (as the widows and orphans of the Confederacy started what we now call Memorial Day), and privately by whoever so chooses to fly the flag.

I choose liberty over censorship every single time

Take this into consideration: If I find a liberal who believes in abortion, doubts God. Can I paste it here and say it represents all Whites? Let alone the smart and objective ones?
I don't think so.

If I find a confederate flag waiver on a youtube who claims blacks are monkeys, Mexicans are wetbacks and jews are the devil incarnate; does that mean it represent the totality of white Americans?
I don't think so.

Dude- you don't think there are blacks who defended slavery? I can find them and link it here if you request. I can find a black man who states the Klan has a right to state their case about the inferiority of blacks.

Does that mean the video expresses liberty?

Does that mean it is a logical representation of what is right? You put up videos of some old dude. not a family, not a nation, not a crew. And think that they are in their right mind?


I have looked at a lot of your links- most recently the link to all those polls. Kudos to that link.

But I wont even waste my time looking at these vids-- I looked at the last dude/video for a bout a minute -and when I saw him sitting all by himself, justifying what happened to his own people...Damn just imagine a Jew on a video justifying what Hitler did, an Chinese justifying the Japanese discrimination... a Bosnian justifying a Serb...
That last video- that old black hating negro...probably is sitting under the very tree he has seen his own hung from... and you presented that as what?

What black people should aspire to think and be like?

[walrus]

I guess my take is very much influenced by me being a civil war buff. War wise, Robert E Lee was a brilliant tactician.. Stone wall Jackson, another great mind. .

What is your take on how or why the Confederate lost? Feel free to educate me- as I am going from vague memory of what I thought to be the truth: The confederates were whipping the Yankees every which a way- so it was a blockade? The stopping of ships or fuel/sustenance that bled them out of resources? Meaning the Northerners never really beat them hand to hand combat wise?

I think a major part of it was Northern industrial might. The confederate had a handful of companies producing canon etc while the north could crank them out. The north ran the railroads and as the war raged on could continue to build the army. Yes, Lincoln put a blockade around the entire south, he had a name for it which I forget now. Grant got a lot of bad press through the years but he was actually a very good General, who did as much as he could to protect his troops as opposed to what you hear these days that he just overwhelmed the south with human waves, not giving a Shit how many men died. So like many wars it's hard to point to just one thing although I have a feeling you have an ace up your sleeve your going to whip out. I'm not really the one you want to teach you, I've read and watched documentaries about the Civil War, it always fascinated me, the amount of death and carnage is stupifying. The north was very cavalier at the beginning thinking they would whoop Johny Reb in less than a year. Anyway, I've only read and watched what is already out there. I've done no research although I do have a family member who received the medal of honor at Gettysburg. Believe it or not he just received it two or three years ago from your man Obama. Look up the name Alonzo Cushing. I do have a spent round from the battlefield. But if you are looking for the inside scoop I can't give you that.

[El Kabong]

....the question wasn't addressed to me, but in my opinion the Confederates lost for any number of reasons: defeat at Gettysburg and not being able to take advantage of the draft riots in New York, the North was newly industrialized and thereby all the better supplied with guns, artillery, and railroads to move goods and troops, the death of Stonewall Jackson certainly did not help, the French losing at the Battle of Puebla (celebrated famously as Cinco De Mayo) as the French were on the verge of further helping the Confederate States while England was still being wishy washy in terms of who they wished to be the victors, but having the backing of an established nation to provide rifles, artillery, and men would have gone a long ways to evening the odds.





As for your response to my previous post, you can view the videos or not, I am not playing some sort of game and just being contrarian for the hell of it. I too am asking questions, I too am searching for answers for what is "correct"....some say the flag stands for: hate, white supremacy, etc......some say it doesn't and like it or not their opinions are valid. H.K. Edgerton whom you refer to as a "black hating negro" was actually the President of the Asheville NAACP at one point in time. Don't know why you'd call him a "black hating negro" as he seems not to hate anyone at all....but if you feel that is the truth then it must be.


But I understand full well that these days emotions are more important than facts. Did blacks fight for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter because it's an ugly thought that they would have so obviously it didn't happen and if by chance it DID happen, then we ought not teach about it as it will only serve to confuse people. Were black patriotic for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter, it's an ugly thought so it obviously didn't happen, and if it did we shouldn't teach it. Did blacks own slaves? Doesn't matter it's an ugly thought and if it did happen we shouldn't teach it.


Emotions > Facts

[SlimTrae]

....the question wasn't addressed to me, but in my opinion the Confederates lost for any number of reasons: defeat at Gettysburg and not being able to take advantage of the draft riots in New York, the North was newly industrialized and thereby all the better supplied with guns, artillery, and railroads to move goods and troops, the death of Stonewall Jackson certainly did not help, the French losing at the Battle of Puebla (celebrated famously as Cinco De Mayo) as the French were on the verge of further helping the Confederate States while England was still being wishy washy in terms of who they wished to be the victors, but having the backing of an established nation to provide rifles, artillery, and men would have gone a long ways to evening the odds.


Good stuff!


As for your response to my previous post, you can view the videos or not, I am not playing some sort of game and just being contrarian for the hell of it. I too am asking questions, I too am searching for answers for what is "correct"....some say the flag stands for: hate, white supremacy, etc......some say it doesn't and like it or not their opinions are valid. H.K. Edgerton whom you refer to as a "black hating negro" was actually the President of the Asheville NAACP at one point in time. Don't know why you'd call him a "black hating negro" as he seems not to hate anyone at all....but if you feel that is the truth then it must be.

Yup its the truth! JK.

But I understand full well that these days emotions are more important than facts. Did blacks fight for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter because it's an ugly thought that they would have so obviously it didn't happen and if by chance it DID happen, then we ought not teach about it as it will only serve to confuse people. Were black patriotic for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter, it's an ugly thought so it obviously didn't happen, and if it did we shouldn't teach it. Did blacks own slaves? Doesn't matter it's an ugly thought and if it did happen we shouldn't teach it.


Emotions > Facts

Hey like the old saying goes: politics and religion are the two subjects that rile us up!

[walrus]

Sorry to interrupt but regarding Gettysburg Lincoln was actually pissed after the battle. He felt the Union could have wiped out the south right then but Meade (I think it was Meade) didn't pursue the feds back into the south. Lincoln thoughts did make sense, the rebs were beat and on the run, Lee was sick, Stonewall Jackson was dead, the rebs were in union territory but after that bloody mess at Gettysburg I can see why Meade didn't give Chase. And actually slim, I only watched the middle video El Kabonghead posted thus far but I have to say it is done well.

[SlimTrae]

I guess my take is very much influenced by me being a civil war buff. War wise, Robert E Lee was a brilliant tactician.. Stone wall Jackson, another great mind. .

What is your take on how or why the Confederate lost? Feel free to educate me- as I am going from vague memory of what I thought to be the truth: The confederates were whipping the Yankees every which a way- so it was a blockade? The stopping of ships or fuel/sustenance that bled them out of resources? Meaning the Northerners never really beat them hand to hand combat wise?

I think a major part of it was Northern industrial might. The confederate had a handful of companies producing canon etc while the north could crank them out. The north ran the railroads and as the war raged on could continue to build the army. Yes, Lincoln put a blockade around the entire south, he had a name for it which I forget now. Grant got a lot of bad press through the years but he was actually a very good General, who did as much as he could to protect his troops as opposed to what you hear these days that he just overwhelmed the south with human waves, not giving a Shit how many men died. So like many wars it's hard to point to just one thing although I have a feeling you have an ace up your sleeve your going to whip out. I'm not really the one you want to teach you, I've read and watched documentaries about the Civil War, it always fascinated me, the amount of death and carnage is stupifying. The north was very cavalier at the beginning thinking they would whoop Johny Reb in less than a year. Anyway, I've only read and watched what is already out there. I've done no research although I do have a family member who received the medal of honor at Gettysburg. Believe it or not he just received it two or three years ago from your man Obama. Look up the name Alonzo Cushing. I do have a spent round from the battlefield. But if you are looking for the inside scoop I can't give you that.

My Opinion or perspective: Documentaries are the best way to learn.

The internet is the great equalizer- in other words for every topic: the net has the truth both ways.

Too easy to get a link that is leaning, skewed, partial truth/lies. So i'd cling to someone who has taken the time because they enjoy said subject as opposed to a blind search on the net that takes me to thetruth.org

[SlimTrae]

Wow, I was JK..there really is a link called truth . org LOL!

[El Kabong]

NAACP wants removal of Confederate generals from Stone Mountain | www.wsbtv.com


.....yeah, so just for the fuck of it I'll say "OK, then what?" to this asinine request.

[SlimTrae]

IMO the confederate flag seems more of a disrespect to America as the United states than to one race of people-African Americans.

Anyone feel free to correct where i may be in error.
1. the confederate flag was made in opposition to the stars and stripes. As President Lincoln was POTUS.-he wasn't trying to enslave white southerners.
2 He wasn't trying to tax them more than the north.
3. Had the south accepted, industrialization would have been equally distributed as in factories.

To respect the confederate flag is to respect why it existed:a flag that expressed secession from the United states to the newly formed confederate states of America.

So had they had it their way, what reason would the south today carry the stars and stripes? If anything it is a slap in the face to Betsy Ross and those who placed the stars and stripes over this nation. To represent a unified nation. Not individual confederacies.

[TitoFan]

NAACP wants removal of Confederate generals from Stone Mountain | www.wsbtv.com


.....yeah, so just for the fuck of it I'll say "OK, then what?" to this asinine request.

Wow...

I had to read the article to find out it's not a joke.
This is what obscures real causes and important issues... crap like this.
Someone with authority in that organization should've slapped some sense into everyone else in it.

[El Kabong]

NAACP wants removal of Confederate generals from Stone Mountain | www.wsbtv.com


.....yeah, so just for the fuck of it I'll say "OK, then what?" to this asinine request.

Wow...

I had to read the article to find out it's not a joke.
This is what obscures real causes and important issues... crap like this.
Someone with authority in that organization should've slapped some sense into everyone else in it.

But wait, there's more!

Mayor Wharton: Remove Nathan Bedford Forrest statue and body from park | WREG.com

Let's Rename the U.S. Army Bases That Honor Confederate Officers

[El Kabong]

IMO the confederate flag seems more of a disrespect to America as the United states than to one race of people-African Americans.

Anyone feel free to correct where i may be in error.
1. the confederate flag was made in opposition to the stars and stripes. As President Lincoln was POTUS.-he wasn't trying to enslave white southerners.
2 He wasn't trying to tax them more than the north.
3. Had the south accepted, industrialization would have been equally distributed as in factories.

To respect the confederate flag is to respect why it existed:a flag that expressed secession from the United states to the newly formed confederate states of America.

So had they had it their way, what reason would the south today carry the stars and stripes? If anything it is a slap in the face to Betsy Ross and those who placed the stars and stripes over this nation. To represent a unified nation. Not individual confederacies.

1. Lincoln's job was to preserve the Union. There were many different ways he could have done that, but war was the path chosen.

2. Lincoln personally may not have been trying to tax the South into submission, but to say they weren't unfairly taxed is refuting history. The South at that time accounted for 75% of the taxes the entire nation brought in. And tariffs on imports to make the products the North made SEEM more affordable also hurt a lot of Southerners in the wallet.

3. The South was not offered industrialization and nor could it have accepted that UNTIL the invention of air conditioning. Also the infrastructure was not around, the North had all the trains and roads and waterways for transportation of bulk goods and materials. The South had the Mississippi River and a few rail lines and that was about it.


The battle Flag of Northern Virginia often called the "Rebel Flag" was also a symbol of Rebellion in the 1970's and 1980's, a symbol of counter culture, a symbol of not being status quo, not following the rules "just because" and punk rockers like Billy Idol adopted it....it's not a monolithic thing, it means different things to different people. When I see the flag, being born and raised in the south, and having a good understanding of the War between the States, I see that as a flag of my homeland....not the entire United States, but of the South specifically. I don't see it as a sign of slavery or a sign of racism or a sign of hate....but I've had different experiences than others. I mean someone who has been mauled by a pit bull probably sees pit bulls differently than I do as well.

[SlimTrae]

1. So you agree with my statement: The North wanted to preserve the union; not the south aka bearers of the confederate flag- We both know the Confederate States of America claimed their right to secede but also to claim federal property within their borders. Again this flag represented a partitioning of what your founding fathers built; A United states -not confederate states. And a Constitution that you speak highly of- they very document that did away with the articles of confederation-

2 Please provide a link to this: Once Lincoln won the war; what tax did he impose on the south? I know he implemented the federal tax in 1861- but that was to finance the war against the newly/temporary formed Confederate states of America. And as far as hurting the southerners-well they should have had morals and found a better way to a sound economy than the enslavement of one race exclusively. This IMO forced northerners to fight the spread of slavery- had this occurred -wouldn't that have hurt the northerners wallets? How could they keep their jobs-if slavery spread to their territories?

3. In the south we both know Cotton became very profitable via Whitney's cotton gin. This increased the number of plantations-that (willingly chose) cotton as their main crop. padding their wallets via slave labor. Point: the southern economy became a one crop economy, depending on cotton and & enslavement, Their pockets if hurt-was done by a Republican president-not democrat, let alone Liberal


& as far as the reason for choosing war? IMO Was The expansion of America :

The Louisiana Purchase & land procured from the Mexican War meant the leaders had to decide on new states right(s) to enslave. Proslavery Missourians known as Border Ruffians increased the chance of war-because they wanted land(s) to be pro slavery.
Mississippi followed up with their document that stated: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery

And your homeland ==The South, as a whole, did not want to secede. BUT!! wealthy plantation/ slave owners, ALL wanted to secede- appointing themselves the leaders claiming the States Rights to decide on enslavement.



Just my take.

[SlimTrae]

Last: not sure why you would choose a dude who named himself as Billy Idol- as an example of how the confederate flag is used. Billy wasn't even born in America-let alone in the south, let alone in the 1860's when the confederate flag came into being LOL!! A better example for me is this:
KKK protests after swift reckoning for Confederate flag in the South

Klan leader Roy Pemberton, uses it to gain new recruits. He's using that flag for that- not for British English rock music via rebellion. aka Billy Idol --with a rebel yell..she cried Moe' Moe' Moe...wwwooahh!!!
I quote the klan leader over Idol “We’re just trying to save our heritage,” “Racial Purity is America’s Security!”

I am the only one here who stated this issue (confederate) was raised to omit/delete the event that caused the lives of blacks in a church. Today this article I linked solidifies it.
Dylann Roof murdered church folk- and quoted why. Yet..

You say: I don't see it as a sign of slavery or a sign of racism or a sign of hate. & as a flag of your homeland- but that homeland used enslavement of a single race to pad their wallets. & this homeland is a part/state of a singular homeland- that is called the United States- not confederate states.

The Klan & Sons of Confederate Veterans share your respect the flag. They don't just say it represents their heritage-----they explain what that heritage consists of.
And the pit bull scenario is cool with me- the people who gave birth to the confederate flag bit my people like a vicious fight dog , while protecting their own who would call it a loyal guard dog. In other words- how does the confederate flag's heritage make Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Arabs feel they are apart of such heritage? History tells us- this very heritage is exclusive, not inclusive.