Enzo Maccarinelli handed six month drugs ban

[Memphis]

In a way I see Enzo as being more stupid than Larry. Larry didnt give a shit, Enzo apparently did and still fucked up

If your job is dependant on you having a driving license and you a) Have a bottle of vodka on the go in your van/cab b) have a few pints the night before and get pinged in the morning your still just as much sacked.

[Althugz]

In a way I see Enzo as being more stupid than Larry. Larry didnt give a shit, Enzo apparently did and still fucked up

If your job is dependant on you having a driving license and you a) Have a bottle of vodka on the go in your van/cab b) have a few pints the night before and get pinged in the morning your still just as much sacked.

Exactly

I feel that people are missing the point here. I'm not comparing their attitudes on the matter. Yes, their attitudes are clearly different. It's totally obvious that Enzo was naive to the matter..I do actually believe him. Whether I'm right or wrong to do so..

BUT, you let Enzo off the hook, then you set the precedent. 6 Months? That punishment might be worth it to some boxers who now have a "cut and paste" naiveity excuse should they be caught on ANYTHING.

I'm dealing in facts here.

End of the day, BOTH fighters were on PED's against their opponent. I know that many of you feel that this endagers the opponent so why is Enzo's naiveity ok? Facts are, he took what he took and gained an "unfair" advantage. As Memphis said, naivety is no excuse. If his opponent had died and then he tested positive and cited that it was "an accident", I guarantee you'd be singing different tunes. (Not that I believe there is anymore risk of fatal injury by somebody being on something - Too many variables to make that assertion)

[Memphis]

6 months out wont disrupt Enzo's career one bit will it? Its almost pointless banning him.

For what its worth I also buy what Enzo is saying. Doesnt change anything though Im afraid.

[Althugz]

6 months out wont disrupt Enzo's career one bit will it? Its almost pointless banning him.

For what its worth I also buy what Enzo is saying. Doesnt change anything though Im afraid.

Totally - He'll be in training camp for the last 3-4 months of his ban and it's practically the amount of time off modern fighters take anyway.

[Beanz]

In a way I see Enzo as being more stupid than Larry. Larry didnt give a shit, Enzo apparently did and still fucked up

If your job is dependant on you having a driving license and you a) Have a bottle of vodka on the go in your van/cab b) have a few pints the night before and get pinged in the morning your still just as much sacked.

You haven't carried your analogy through to it's logical conclusion though. If the authorities (in this case the Police) caught you over the drink drive limit, the punishment (in this case the length of driving ban and possible imprisonment) handed out by the Magistrate would be entirely different dependent on the amount of alcohol consumed, whether you were aware of being over the limit,the amount of times you subsequently admitted to doing so, and many other extenuating circumstances. When it comes to driving, Alcohol is not a performance enhancing drug though, so the example does not really fit.

The two distinct punishments may seem entirely arbitrary until you take into account the fact that if Larry were to be given 6 months for each admitted breach he would soon tot up a sentence of 6 and a half years. Instead, despite the fact that he admitted cheating for 6 year,s he was only given a four year ban. With a BSc in Pharmaceutical chemistry he could hardly claim ignorance.

[Beanz]

From what I've heard the packaging didn't even stipulate that it contained this PED. If it's over the counter and doesn't say on the container that it contains a PED surely the company that supplies it should be sued and the fighter should be excused after he has sat out whilst his body clears itself of the drug?

The ingredients will always stipulate what is contained in the supplement, buddy.

Nope.

If you knew half as much as you are trying to let on you would know just how much shit the term 'propiatery blend' can cover... You'd also know that it us not unheard of for suppliment companies to change or lie about what is in a product.

Why do you think Jack3D is constantly being pulled? It's just been banned AGAIN for featuring an ingredient which was claimed to be derived from a geranium, but was actually a synthetic featured on several ban lists.

Can I just ask... Did you seriously just compare something found in most preworkout formulas to fucking EPO?!?

I mean, I know you're mates or a big fan of larry's or some shit... but, really?!

Was claiming that anabolic steroids wouldn't aid in his power development because they 'don't make you grow more fast twitch muscle cells' (hint: nothing makes you 'grow more' cells. It's a physiological impossibility!...) not enough?

You are seriously dumb beyond words..honestly, you lower my IQ everytime I respond to your complete and utter nonsense..The scary part is how much confidence you have in your stupidity.

Listen...read slowly..

Who decides whether methylhexaneamine is worse than EPO?? You?? Of course not, you dumb shit. So how can you then turn around and say "OMG OMG you're comparing an over the counter supplement to something that's banned".

Do you even know the law when it comes to what can be promoted as an over the counter supplement and something that's banned? No, you don't. It's as simple as bringing something out that has NO MEDICAL USAGE. If something has no medical usage it can be sold over the counter until complaints are made and the long process to ban it has been completed/proven.

For example, when prohormones were banned, they used this loophole to bring out a supplement called M1T which was a STEROID. They called it a "pro-steroid" and it was sold over the counter. It had zero medical use because they created it in a lab. Oh but because it was an over the counter supplement, in your infinite wisdom, it wouldn't have been as bad as things on the banned list..even though it was probably far more effective than most things on there.

NOW do you see the grey area that I'm talking about??

They eventually got it banned. Tons of stuff on the banned list were over the counter supplements at one point you absolute goof! Ephedrine, pro-hormones (which are steroids) and probably soon to be, methylhexaneamine which is found in Jack3d and HemoRage. I assume Enzo used one of those two.

It actually pains me that you can be this dumb and be so cock-sure about it.

If this post, born out of your stupidity has at least educated some of the forum posters about the huge grey area and contradiction that is the supplement industry, then you will have at least served some purpose.

This is a great example of the patronizing nature you posting on this subject often takes. Calling people names and flouncing around with your pseudo intellect just makes you look even more ridiculous than your micro trunks.

I posted in the Larry thread and you accused me of getting my info from the Sun my information actually came from Oxford journals, the BBC and Pharmaknowhow. Then @AdamGB whom I assume from his posts in the Ask the trainer section, is a coach, trainer or some other type of fitness professional is dismissed by you as "dumb beyond words", "cock sure" , and "a div" the lists goes on. The point is if you really want to educate posters then perhaps you should refrain from alienating a great many of them with your attitude. At the risk of sounding once again like an "odious little c**t" , I am well aware that you can raise your testosterone levels to quite a high level without the aid of drugs,hormones and supplements, and you sound like you may have overdosed and turned into an angry little man

[Trecco bay]

Althugz still can't get it through his thick head , perhaps he is blinded by his infatuation with larry , that the two cases are different , that is why their bans are not the same .Larry case was part of an investigation into anobolic steriods and growth hormones that where being smuggled into the uk, and some of them could have got into gyms where young boxers could have been tempted into buying them . That is why the bbbofc reflected in their ban a longer sentence , if larry had been caught with just epo in his system he probably would have got a 6 mth ban

[Memphis]

In a way I see Enzo as being more stupid than Larry. Larry didnt give a shit, Enzo apparently did and still fucked up

If your job is dependant on you having a driving license and you a) Have a bottle of vodka on the go in your van/cab b) have a few pints the night before and get pinged in the morning your still just as much sacked.

You haven't carried your analogy through to it's logical conclusion though. If the authorities (in this case the Police) caught you over the drink drive limit, the punishment (in this case the length of driving ban and possible imprisonment) handed out by the Magistrate would be entirely different dependent on the amount of alcohol consumed, whether you were aware of being over the limit,the amount of times you subsequently admitted to doing so, and many other extenuating circumstances. When it comes to driving, Alcohol is not a performance enhancing drug though, so the example does not really fit.

The two distinct punishments may seem entirely arbitrary until you take into account the fact that if Larry were to be given 6 months for each admitted breach he would soon tot up a sentence of 6 and a half years. Instead, despite the fact that he admitted cheating for 6 year,s he was only given a four year ban. With a BSc in Pharmaceutical chemistry he could hardly claim ignorance.

Getting banned is the conclusion though mate isn't it. There's no legal proceedings following the punishment handed out by their professional body. If that were the case then of course, one would be handed a much harsher punishment.

Im not sure what you mean by it not being valid because booze isnt performance enhancing.?

[AdamGB]

I seriously don't know where to start with that rambling mess of a rant.

Firstly, I didn't think it was possible for your IQ to be lowered... But you seem intent on proving that a negative IQ could exist... that's one thing (the only thing) you've shown me to be wrong about.

At least you have the humility to admit that your posts are becoming stupider with each one you make.

You're right, I don't get to decide if EPO is stronger than Jack3D, or red bull, or beechams all in one, or the magic water michael jordan gave to the looney toons in space jam for that matter.

Do you know who does? The people who decided to ban enzo and poor, poor larry.

Like you seem so desperate for everybody to understand - they know it's a grey area. But you're the cretin who think such a complex issue requires black abd white punishment.

What's the agenda here? Enzo punished more or Larry less?

Lets face it, if your man crush larry hadn't been banned your opinion wouldn't be the contradictory one you hold.

You take a banned substance, you get a ban - but because everybody isn't as backwards as you the circumstances are judicated and the length of the ban decided.

And believe me, nobody wants to pick on Larry or take it easy on Enzo.

(remember you're the one with agenda)

[AdamGB]

In a way I see Enzo as being more stupid than Larry. Larry didnt give a shit, Enzo apparently did and still fucked up

If your job is dependant on you having a driving license and you a) Have a bottle of vodka on the go in your van/cab b) have a few pints the night before and get pinged in the morning your still just as much sacked.

You haven't carried your analogy through to it's logical conclusion though. If the authorities (in this case the Police) caught you over the drink drive limit, the punishment (in this case the length of driving ban and possible imprisonment) handed out by the Magistrate would be entirely different dependent on the amount of alcohol consumed, whether you were aware of being over the limit,the amount of times you subsequently admitted to doing so, and many other extenuating circumstances. When it comes to driving, Alcohol is not a performance enhancing drug though, so the example does not really fit.

The two distinct punishments may seem entirely arbitrary until you take into account the fact that if Larry were to be given 6 months for each admitted breach he would soon tot up a sentence of 6 and a half years. Instead, despite the fact that he admitted cheating for 6 year,s he was only given a four year ban. With a BSc in Pharmaceutical chemistry he could hardly claim ignorance.

Of course he couldn't. Last I checked you can get Jack3D in health food stores... Not too sure the same can be said about EPO

[Althugz]

In a way I see Enzo as being more stupid than Larry. Larry didnt give a shit, Enzo apparently did and still fucked up

If your job is dependant on you having a driving license and you a) Have a bottle of vodka on the go in your van/cab b) have a few pints the night before and get pinged in the morning your still just as much sacked.

You haven't carried your analogy through to it's logical conclusion though. If the authorities (in this case the Police) caught you over the drink drive limit, the punishment (in this case the length of driving ban and possible imprisonment) handed out by the Magistrate would be entirely different dependent on the amount of alcohol consumed, whether you were aware of being over the limit,the amount of times you subsequently admitted to doing so, and many other extenuating circumstances. When it comes to driving, Alcohol is not a performance enhancing drug though, so the example does not really fit.

The two distinct punishments may seem entirely arbitrary until you take into account the fact that if Larry were to be given 6 months for each admitted breach he would soon tot up a sentence of 6 and a half years. Instead, despite the fact that he admitted cheating for 6 year,s he was only given a four year ban. With a BSc in Pharmaceutical chemistry he could hardly claim ignorance.

Of course he couldn't. Last I checked you can get Jack3D in health food stores... Not too sure the same can be said about EPO

You simply can not read, can you you poor thing? We spoke about this earlier a few posts above, didn't we?

Pure comedy gold...

[AdamGB]

Reading, comprehension and logical thought are different things.

You can read, I'll give you that much.

My point is that it's hard to buy and use EPO by mistake.

[Master]

True and his trainer has that opinion and let him go. Enzo is pissed off with him for taking that weight loss supplement.

[superheavyrhun]

Disclaimer - I am an Enzo fan and am coming at it with the belief that it was a genuine mistake.

Thanks for posting that list of ingredients Althugz, I had a quick look into what UKAD actually provides for athletes, and their website refers them on to the Global DRO website to check the individual ingredients and brands to see if they are actually banned.

Having run all of the ingredients you mentioned through their website search facility, none of those come up with a result that is prohibited. Dimethylphenylamine doesn't bring up a direct result, however, it does suggest dimethylpentylamine, which is a prohibited substance in competition. I have no idea if the structure of the substance can change when it comes into contact with the human body, and all of the reactions that take place in the body.

The burden is on the boxer to make sure that whatever they take isn't banned in its original form and to ensure the compounds that are generated during the consumption and the body's processing of these supplements, and they won't always react in the same way in every person. Boxers and their trainers aren't chemists, but I agree that there needs to be a clearer system.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Disclaimer - I am an Enzo fan and am coming at it with the belief that it was a genuine mistake.

Thanks for posting that list of ingredients Althugz, I had a quick look into what UKAD actually provides for athletes, and their website refers them on to the Global DRO website to check the individual ingredients and brands to see if they are actually banned.

Having run all of the ingredients you mentioned through their website search facility, none of those come up with a result that is prohibited. Dimethylphenylamine doesn't bring up a direct result, however, it does suggest dimethylpentylamine, which is a prohibited substance in competition. I have no idea if the structure of the substance can change when it comes into contact with the human body, and all of the reactions that take place in the body.

The burden is on the boxer to make sure that whatever they take isn't banned in its original form and to ensure the compounds that are generated during the consumption and the body's processing of these supplements, and they won't always react in the same way in every person. Boxers and their trainers aren't chemists, but I agree that there needs to be a clearer system.

I remember a story from the winter olympics where a British athlete tested positive. His crime was using a US vicks inhaler which contained slightly different contents to the one you can buy in the UK.

Not all supplements that you buy over the counter will say whether you can or can't use them if you're competing.

Yes you should check but plenty of people will assume if it's over the counter it is safe to use and if doesnt say don't use if you're competing/screened then again will assume no ill side affects.