Juan Manuel Marquez Tells Pacquiao To His Face Floyd Would Kick His Ass On ESPN First

[Violent Demise]

The difference between pac and floyd is purely boxing.

Pac has to fight marquez 4 times over a period of so many years and still cant win a clear decison over an old fighter.

There is no need for floyd to fight marquez ever again as it was so clear the domination.

If its close again, its the leg cramp excuse.
Pac ducks bradley to fight an old marquez..boxing stinks.

If you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.

He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.

Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.

I think the hatton, oscar cotto and moseley that floyd fought were at a far better stage and weight as when they fought manny.

Obviously, im going to side with floyd and dont want to hijack the thread by talking about manny and floyds opponents but you wisely brought them up.

Floyd:-

Hatton-undefeated.(was never the same after floyd)

Oscar-his weight, his ring, his gloves, his rules.

Mosely:- after beating margacheato, no one wanted to fight him, even offered to do a catchweight with manny.

Cotto:- at his weight and not after a loss.

Weight makes all the difference.

Manny is great fighter but those common opponents were all at a disadvantage when fighting manny.

The Cotto that fought Pacquaio had a corner that had no clue as to how to put together a fight plan for Pacquiao. The Cotto that fought Floyd had Pedro Diaz in his corner, and the very best fight plan and conditioning to try and beat Floyd. Obviously it didn't work. That Cotto would've beaten Pac, IMO.

Cotto had been a pro for about 9 years going into the Pacquiao fight. He knows what the fuck he's doing. At least he should. His corner had nothing to do with him losing.

[TitoFan]

The difference between pac and floyd is purely boxing.

Pac has to fight marquez 4 times over a period of so many years and still cant win a clear decison over an old fighter.

There is no need for floyd to fight marquez ever again as it was so clear the domination.

If its close again, its the leg cramp excuse.
Pac ducks bradley to fight an old marquez..boxing stinks.

If you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.

He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.

Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.

I think the hatton, oscar cotto and moseley that floyd fought were at a far better stage and weight as when they fought manny.

Obviously, im going to side with floyd and dont want to hijack the thread by talking about manny and floyds opponents but you wisely brought them up.

Floyd:-

Hatton-undefeated.(was never the same after floyd)

Oscar-his weight, his ring, his gloves, his rules.

Mosely:- after beating margacheato, no one wanted to fight him, even offered to do a catchweight with manny.

Cotto:- at his weight and not after a loss.

Weight makes all the difference.

Manny is great fighter but those common opponents were all at a disadvantage when fighting manny.

The Cotto that fought Pacquaio had a corner that had no clue as to how to put together a fight plan for Pacquiao. The Cotto that fought Floyd had Pedro Diaz in his corner, and the very best fight plan and conditioning to try and beat Floyd. Obviously it didn't work. That Cotto would've beaten Pac, IMO.

Cotto had been a pro for about 9 years going into the Pacquiao fight. He knows what the fuck he's doing. At least he should. His corner had nothing to do with him losing.

So do away with corners and trainers. What are they good for, right? This can't be a "sometimes they're needed... sometimes they're not" type of argument. Yes... all professional boxers know how to fight and carry themselves in the ring. But supposedly, a good corner/trainer is there to add strategy... to see things the fighter himself may be overlooking. In Cotto's case, he was doing quite nicely the first few rounds against Pac, snapping his head back repeatedly with a good hard jab. He should've refrained from trading with Pac until maybe a bit later in the fight, but he didn't and got tagged.

But more importantly... the trainer prepares the fighter BEFORE the fight, with the strength, conditioning, and other drills and exercises to get the most out the fighter for the particular opponent he is facing.

Example: Cotto clearly lost against Mayweather... but he would have done a HELL of a lot more poorly with Joe "Clueless" Santiago still in his corner.

[Fenster]

@imp

You originally said Manny needs a 4th attempt at beating Marquez whereas Floyd would never need to rematch him. That is true. However, you have to accept that, if you judge fighters by common opponents then everyone has to be brought into the mix.

Judging Floyd/Pac through Marquez makes Floyd look far superior. Judging Floyd/Pac through Cotto makes Pac look far superior.

I think using Marquez/Cotto to judge who is better between Floyd and Pac is ridiculous! Floyd brought Marquez up in weight and took full advantage. Pac brought Cotto down in weight and took full advantage. You can take it further...Floyd didn't make weight against Marquez...and Pac fought a Cotto that had not fully recovered both physically and psychologically from the Margo debacle. Floyd fought a bigger, better, healthier, more rejuvenated Cotto (not to mention much better coached). Pac has fought a prime Marquez at lower classes and a better suited Marquez at welterweight.

Exactly.

You can make excuses for any fighter that's why I was sticking to pure fact.

[Violent Demise]

The difference between pac and floyd is purely boxing.

Pac has to fight marquez 4 times over a period of so many years and still cant win a clear decison over an old fighter.

There is no need for floyd to fight marquez ever again as it was so clear the domination.

If its close again, its the leg cramp excuse.
Pac ducks bradley to fight an old marquez..boxing stinks.

If you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.

He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.

Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.

I think the hatton, oscar cotto and moseley that floyd fought were at a far better stage and weight as when they fought manny.

Obviously, im going to side with floyd and dont want to hijack the thread by talking about manny and floyds opponents but you wisely brought them up.

Floyd:-

Hatton-undefeated.(was never the same after floyd)

Oscar-his weight, his ring, his gloves, his rules.

Mosely:- after beating margacheato, no one wanted to fight him, even offered to do a catchweight with manny.

Cotto:- at his weight and not after a loss.

Weight makes all the difference.

Manny is great fighter but those common opponents were all at a disadvantage when fighting manny.

The Cotto that fought Pacquaio had a corner that had no clue as to how to put together a fight plan for Pacquiao. The Cotto that fought Floyd had Pedro Diaz in his corner, and the very best fight plan and conditioning to try and beat Floyd. Obviously it didn't work. That Cotto would've beaten Pac, IMO.

Cotto had been a pro for about 9 years going into the Pacquiao fight. He knows what the fuck he's doing. At least he should. His corner had nothing to do with him losing.

So do away with corners and trainers. What are they good for, right? This can't be a "sometimes they're needed... sometimes they're not" type of argument. Yes... all professional boxers know how to fight and carry themselves in the ring. But supposedly, a good corner/trainer is there to add strategy... to see things the fighter himself may be overlooking. In Cotto's case, he was doing quite nicely the first few rounds against Pac, snapping his head back repeatedly with a good hard jab. He should've refrained from trading with Pac until maybe a bit later in the fight, but he didn't and got tagged.

But more importantly... the trainer prepares the fighter BEFORE the fight, with the strength, conditioning, and other drills and exercises to get the most out the fighter for the particular opponent he is facing.

Example: Cotto clearly lost against Mayweather... but he would have done a HELL of a lot more poorly with Joe "Clueless" Santiago still in his corner.

You just proved my point. Cotto did have success early. So apparently the "strategy" was working very well. I never saw his corner tell Cotto to trade with Pacquiao (If they did let me know the moment they told him). Cotto decided to do that himself. Him being dropped and hurt showed it was a mistake. Whatever his corner told him or didn't tell him to do after that doesn't even matter. Cuz the fight was already lost. After that 2nd knock down it was over. Cotto went into full retreat and the fight stopped being competitive. It was just a matter of time. Cotto's corner took the blame cuz Cotto and his followers needed to blame something

[TitoFan]

The difference between pac and floyd is purely boxing.

Pac has to fight marquez 4 times over a period of so many years and still cant win a clear decison over an old fighter.

There is no need for floyd to fight marquez ever again as it was so clear the domination.

If its close again, its the leg cramp excuse.
Pac ducks bradley to fight an old marquez..boxing stinks.

If you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.

He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.

Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.

I think the hatton, oscar cotto and moseley that floyd fought were at a far better stage and weight as when they fought manny.

Obviously, im going to side with floyd and dont want to hijack the thread by talking about manny and floyds opponents but you wisely brought them up.

Floyd:-

Hatton-undefeated.(was never the same after floyd)

Oscar-his weight, his ring, his gloves, his rules.

Mosely:- after beating margacheato, no one wanted to fight him, even offered to do a catchweight with manny.

Cotto:- at his weight and not after a loss.

Weight makes all the difference.

Manny is great fighter but those common opponents were all at a disadvantage when fighting manny.

The Cotto that fought Pacquaio had a corner that had no clue as to how to put together a fight plan for Pacquiao. The Cotto that fought Floyd had Pedro Diaz in his corner, and the very best fight plan and conditioning to try and beat Floyd. Obviously it didn't work. That Cotto would've beaten Pac, IMO.

Cotto had been a pro for about 9 years going into the Pacquiao fight. He knows what the fuck he's doing. At least he should. His corner had nothing to do with him losing.

So do away with corners and trainers. What are they good for, right? This can't be a "sometimes they're needed... sometimes they're not" type of argument. Yes... all professional boxers know how to fight and carry themselves in the ring. But supposedly, a good corner/trainer is there to add strategy... to see things the fighter himself may be overlooking. In Cotto's case, he was doing quite nicely the first few rounds against Pac, snapping his head back repeatedly with a good hard jab. He should've refrained from trading with Pac until maybe a bit later in the fight, but he didn't and got tagged.

But more importantly... the trainer prepares the fighter BEFORE the fight, with the strength, conditioning, and other drills and exercises to get the most out the fighter for the particular opponent he is facing.

Example: Cotto clearly lost against Mayweather... but he would have done a HELL of a lot more poorly with Joe "Clueless" Santiago still in his corner.

You just proved my point. Cotto did have success early. So apparently the "strategy" was working very well. I never saw his corner tell Cotto to trade with Pacquiao (If they did let me know the moment they told him). Cotto decided to do that himself. Him being dropped and hurt showed it was a mistake. Whatever his corner told him or didn't tell him to do after that doesn't even matter. Cuz the fight was already lost. After that 2nd knock down it was over. Cotto went into full retreat and the fight stopped being competitive. It was just a matter of time. Cotto's corner took the blame cuz Cotto and his followers needed to blame something

Yeah ok whatever. We don't agree on that, but that's fine. However, you ignored perhaps the more important point... the training BEFORE the fight. It was obviously a different Cotto that went into the ring against Mayweather than against Pacquiao. He was better trained... better prepared. That's why I maintain that a Pedro Diaz-trained Cotto would've had a much better chance to defeat Pacquaio. Joe Santiago didn't have a clue as to how train Cotto for a specific fighter. He's merely a personal trainer, with very little inside knowledge about the boxing game. Pedro Diaz, on the other hand, was already a highly successful trainer from the Cuban amateur ranks, with a very good resume.

[imp]

Marquez fought both of these guys and he thinks that mayweather will win.

I respect marquez for being honest and surprise surprise...i agree with him.

[Rantcatrat]

@imp

You originally said Manny needs a 4th attempt at beating Marquez whereas Floyd would never need to rematch him. That is true. However, you have to accept that, if you judge fighters by common opponents then everyone has to be brought into the mix.

Judging Floyd/Pac through Marquez makes Floyd look far superior. Judging Floyd/Pac through Cotto makes Pac look far superior.

Does floyd or manny need to rematch cotto as it was decisive in both fights.

The outcome would be the same.

BUT if manny fought cotto at his WEIGHT the majority would agree it would be harder for manny.

If floyd fought cotto at 147 it would still be same thing but possibly a late ko and even easier for floyd

Surely you would agree fenster that in each weight class that floyd fights cotto the outcome is the same but easier at 147?

On the other hand its harder for manny at the opponents weight and not weight drained...and that applies to oscar as well.

I cant say manny was more superior at beating cotto because cotto was at a disavantage in weight and he admits that.

@imp -
Cotto:

After seeing Cotto dismantled by a legitimate junior middleweight in Austin Trout, do you still maintain that Cotto is/was best at 154? Frankly, Cotto was best pre-Margarito I. He was never quite the same afterward. In terms of his weight class, Cotto was best at 140-147. He's not even a big welterweight, let alone a junior middleweight. Floyd fought Cotto after Manny knocked him out. In terms of wear and tear, Cotto had been through 2 fights with Margarito and one bad knockout by Pacquiao, prior to fighting Floyd. In my humble, Manny did better against Cotto, in a weight class that Cotto historically has been more effective.

Hatton:

Somewhat a wash, Hatton had never been stopped when Floyd fought him, but he looked outsized against Floyd, and Floyd fought him at 147, not 140, where Hatton had been best. Recall Collazo-Hatton at 147 before Floyd got to him. Arguably, Collazo beat him at 147. Manny fought him after Floyd had knocked him out at Hatton's best weight. It all depends on how much the Floyd KO took out of Hatton. Thus, it's arguably a wash.

Margarito:

Floyd never faced him. Manny demolished him.

Marquez:

Floyd wins.

[Rantcatrat]

The difference between pac and floyd is purely boxing.

Pac has to fight marquez 4 times over a period of so many years and still cant win a clear decison over an old fighter.

There is no need for floyd to fight marquez ever again as it was so clear the domination.

If its close again, its the leg cramp excuse.
Pac ducks bradley to fight an old marquez..boxing stinks.

If you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.

He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.

Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.

I think the hatton, oscar cotto and moseley that floyd fought were at a far better stage and weight as when they fought manny.

Obviously, im going to side with floyd and dont want to hijack the thread by talking about manny and floyds opponents but you wisely brought them up.

Floyd:-

Hatton-undefeated.(was never the same after floyd)

Oscar-his weight, his ring, his gloves, his rules.

Mosely:- after beating margacheato, no one wanted to fight him, even offered to do a catchweight with manny.

Cotto:- at his weight and not after a loss.

Weight makes all the difference.

Manny is great fighter but those common opponents were all at a disadvantage when fighting manny.

The Cotto that fought Pacquaio had a corner that had no clue as to how to put together a fight plan for Pacquiao. The Cotto that fought Floyd had Pedro Diaz in his corner, and the very best fight plan and conditioning to try and beat Floyd. Obviously it didn't work. That Cotto would've beaten Pac, IMO.

Cotto had been a pro for about 9 years going into the Pacquiao fight. He knows what the fuck he's doing. At least he should. His corner had nothing to do with him losing.

So do away with corners and trainers. What are they good for, right? This can't be a "sometimes they're needed... sometimes they're not" type of argument. Yes... all professional boxers know how to fight and carry themselves in the ring. But supposedly, a good corner/trainer is there to add strategy... to see things the fighter himself may be overlooking. In Cotto's case, he was doing quite nicely the first few rounds against Pac, snapping his head back repeatedly with a good hard jab. He should've refrained from trading with Pac until maybe a bit later in the fight, but he didn't and got tagged.

But more importantly... the trainer prepares the fighter BEFORE the fight, with the strength, conditioning, and other drills and exercises to get the most out the fighter for the particular opponent he is facing.

Example: Cotto clearly lost against Mayweather... but he would have done a HELL of a lot more poorly with Joe "Clueless" Santiago still in his corner.

You just proved my point. Cotto did have success early. So apparently the "strategy" was working very well. I never saw his corner tell Cotto to trade with Pacquiao (If they did let me know the moment they told him). Cotto decided to do that himself. Him being dropped and hurt showed it was a mistake. Whatever his corner told him or didn't tell him to do after that doesn't even matter. Cuz the fight was already lost. After that 2nd knock down it was over. Cotto went into full retreat and the fight stopped being competitive. It was just a matter of time. Cotto's corner took the blame cuz Cotto and his followers needed to blame something

Yeah ok whatever. We don't agree on that, but that's fine. However, you ignored perhaps the more important point... the training BEFORE the fight. It was obviously a different Cotto that went into the ring against Mayweather than against Pacquiao. He was better trained... better prepared. That's why I maintain that a Pedro Diaz-trained Cotto would've had a much better chance to defeat Pacquaio. Joe Santiago didn't have a clue as to how train Cotto for a specific fighter. He's merely a personal trainer, with very little inside knowledge about the boxing game. Pedro Diaz, on the other hand, was already a highly successful trainer from the Cuban amateur ranks, with a very good resume.

That's all fine and dandy, but Pedro Diaz was in his corner last weekend, right? And can you point to specific things that Pedro Diaz has done successfully with Cotto that Cotto wasn't doing before. Frankly, Manny's speed would give any version of Cotto's problems, even a Pedro Diaz-trained version. Now, a pre-Margarito I version of Cotto at 140/147 against Manny, trained by a championship quality trainer? That's worth a discussion.

[Maravilla2012]

The difference between pac and floyd is purely boxing.

Pac has to fight marquez 4 times over a period of so many years and still cant win a clear decison over an old fighter.

There is no need for floyd to fight marquez ever again as it was so clear the domination.

If its close again, its the leg cramp excuse.
Pac ducks bradley to fight an old marquez..boxing stinks.

If you want to judge them by common opponents then Manny is above Floyd.

He beat Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Mosley more impressively than Floyd did.

Having close fights with a great like Marquez is nothing to be ashamed about. Floyd had two close fights with Castillo, arguably losing the first in many peoples eyes.

I think the hatton, oscar cotto and moseley that floyd fought were at a far better stage and weight as when they fought manny.

Obviously, im going to side with floyd and dont want to hijack the thread by talking about manny and floyds opponents but you wisely brought them up.

Floyd:-

Hatton-undefeated.(was never the same after floyd)

Oscar-his weight, his ring, his gloves, his rules.

Mosely:- after beating margacheato, no one wanted to fight him, even offered to do a catchweight with manny.

Cotto:- at his weight and not after a loss.

Weight makes all the difference.

Manny is great fighter but those common opponents were all at a disadvantage when fighting manny.

Weight makes all the difference?

Manny fought Marquez at 126, 130 and both weighing 142.

Floyd fought Marquez once at welterweight with a big size advantage. Marquez dropped back to 135 immediately following the fight.

Clearly Marquez had a big disadvantage against Floyd, so comparing Pac/Floyd where Marquez is concerned is pointless?

Not to mention that Floyd couldn't even make his own weight.

[beenKOed]

The difference between pac and floyd is purely boxing.

Pac has to fight marquez 4 times over a period of so many years and still cant win a clear decison over an old fighter.

There is no need for floyd to fight marquez ever again as it was so clear the domination.

If its close again, its the leg cramp excuse.
Pac ducks bradley to fight an old marquez..boxing stinks.

I'm starting to think the same way, but don't forget there's a promoter involved by the name of Arum.

I'm thinking everyone is right, he's a petty little turd and crooked like a grape vine. He's smart but twisted. Too many questionable and close decisions happen when he's involved.

[imp]

@imp

You originally said Manny needs a 4th attempt at beating Marquez whereas Floyd would never need to rematch him. That is true. However, you have to accept that, if you judge fighters by common opponents then everyone has to be brought into the mix.

Judging Floyd/Pac through Marquez makes Floyd look far superior. Judging Floyd/Pac through Cotto makes Pac look far superior.

Does floyd or manny need to rematch cotto as it was decisive in both fights.

The outcome would be the same.

BUT if manny fought cotto at his WEIGHT the majority would agree it would be harder for manny.

If floyd fought cotto at 147 it would still be same thing but possibly a late ko and even easier for floyd

Surely you would agree fenster that in each weight class that floyd fights cotto the outcome is the same but easier at 147?

On the other hand its harder for manny at the opponents weight and not weight drained...and that applies to oscar as well.

I cant say manny was more superior at beating cotto because cotto was at a disavantage in weight and he admits that.

@imp -
Cotto:

After seeing Cotto dismantled by a legitimate junior middleweight in Austin Trout, do you still maintain that Cotto is/was best at 154? Frankly, Cotto was best pre-Margarito I. He was never quite the same afterward. In terms of his weight class, Cotto was best at 140-147. He's not even a big welterweight, let alone a junior middleweight. Floyd fought Cotto after Manny knocked him out. In terms of wear and tear, Cotto had been through 2 fights with Margarito and one bad knockout by Pacquiao, prior to fighting Floyd. In my humble, Manny did better against Cotto, in a weight class that Cotto historically has been more effective.

Hatton:

Somewhat a wash, Hatton had never been stopped when Floyd fought him, but he looked outsized against Floyd, and Floyd fought him at 147, not 140, where Hatton had been best. Recall Collazo-Hatton at 147 before Floyd got to him. Arguably, Collazo beat him at 147. Manny fought him after Floyd had knocked him out at Hatton's best weight. It all depends on how much the Floyd KO took out of Hatton. Thus, it's arguably a wash.

Margarito:

Floyd never faced him. Manny demolished him.

Marquez:

Floyd wins.

Ortiz:-

Floyd ko him. Manny would never ever fight victor post berto.

Hatton:-

Hatton was undefeated!!!
Do you know the metal strength of an undefeated fighter?!
Hatton could never be the same after that!
Hatton got rid of his lifelong trainer and he was never the same!

Margarito:-

Lol! Drug cheat plaster wearing disgrace to mexicans and boxing!
This guy was already been beaten by paul williams and destroyed by moseley!
Plus, he had the added stress of the fact he was exposed and could not wear the plaster anymore!

Cotto:-

Cotto didnt fight pac at 147 it was a catchweight of 145!!!! Thats even worse.

Oscar:-

Its so obvious this one..you work it out fella.

[christianshreve]

JMM is getting English down pretty well. It's unfortunate that more great Mexican fighters don't. Little Ricardo Lopez could have made millions more if he had learned English--not that they should have to do so, mind you; it's just that so much of the paying demographic speaks English, and likes to hear them directly without a translator.
If one bases their career on being the voice of a culture, i.e. Duran for Panama or Julio Chavez sr. for Mexico, then this may not apply.
However, on the main, it is a great marketing strategy to be able to talk directly to the largest chunk of ppv buyers without translation

[imp]

JMM is getting English down pretty well. It's unfortunate that more great Mexican fighters don't. Little Ricardo Lopez could have made millions more if he had learned English--not that they should have to do so, mind you; it's just that so much of the paying demographic speaks English, and likes to hear them directly without a translator.
If one bases their career on being the voice of a culture, i.e. Duran for Panama or Julio Chavez sr. for Mexico, then this may not apply.
However, on the main, it is a great marketing strategy to be able to talk directly to the largest chunk of ppv buyers without translation

Marquez does quite well with the english but for some reason i expected pac to be better.

[DavilaJones]

If I may ask a question to you all:

Let's say Mayweather fights Manny and win. Would this mean that he is the better or that his style suits him better to deal with an aggressive opponent? Styles do make fights. Frazier wasn't the greatest but he beat Ali.

I think it would of course be a mark of pride if one wins over the other but to say that the victor is superior wouldn't quite reflect the realities of boxing. Chavez was a damn great boxer but sweet pete spanked him, it takes nothing away from him.

[Master]

If I may ask a question to you all:

Let's say Mayweather fights Manny and win. Would this mean that he is the better or that his style suits him better to deal with an aggressive opponent? Styles do make fights. Frazier wasn't the greatest but he beat Ali.

I think it would of course be a mark of pride if one wins over the other but to say that the victor is superior wouldn't quite reflect the realities of boxing. Chavez was a damn great boxer but sweet pete spanked him, it takes nothing away from him.

Pac could have made it interesting a couple of years ago but now he would be countered silly by Floyd. Shame.