Whose fault is it?

[TitoFan]

The Jermaine Taylor comeback thread brings up a question. Whose fault is it when a fighter steps into the ring one too many times and ends up with a life-threatening injury? And if more than one party is at fault.... how is the blame divided up? Jermaine is hardly the first (or last) guy to step into the ring when everyone clearly sees he shouldn't. After the damage is done, it's too late to fret.

Who's mostly at fault, and why?

[IamInuit]

Great question and a very tricky one with several fine lines for blame. I almost hit fighter immediately and then paused and looked for system as an option or all of the above. We as individuals are void of any insanity, essentially responsible for all of our decisions. Enter science and the known effects caused by repeated blows to the head. Add massive ego to the party and you get Roy Jones. Now its at this point where some of those others on the list need to make a stand. Revoke his license to fight or you become complicit. I dont think pimps like Arum care about their fighters one way or the other. Bob barely batted an eye when his own son was killed. Family and friends need to quit stroking ego's and being yes men. I would actually blame fans and the press the least as crazy as it sounds. Most rational fans and press row know Roy is done and say so. Trainers need to take some but what a shitty position to be in. I'd wager Roach behind closed doors has already told Manny to quit and on more then one occasion.

Great thread.

[TitoFan]

Great question and a very tricky one with several fine lines for blame. I almost hit fighter immediately and then paused and looked for system as an option or all of the above. We as individuals are void of any insanity, essentially responsible for all of our decisions. Enter science and the known effects caused by repeated blows to the head. Add massive ego to the party and you get Roy Jones. Now its at this point where some of those others on the list need to make a stand. Revoke his license to fight or you become complicit. I dont think pimps like Arum care about their fighters one way or the other. Bob barely batted an eye when his own son was killed. Family and friends need to quit stroking ego's and being yes men. I would actually blame fans and the press the least as crazy as it sounds. Most rational fans and press row know Roy is done and say so. Trainers need to take some but what a shitty position to be in. I'd wager Roach behind closed doors has already told Manny to quit and on more then one occasion.

Great thread.

You can vote for more than one option, @IamInuit .

Which is why you're right about it being tricky and having a lot of fine lines. I divided it equally between fighter, family and friends, and the licensing board. The fighter because when it comes right down to it.... you're the one solely responsible for your decisions as an adult.... and you should know better than to risk life and health for the sake of one more fight. Family and friends because they're supposed to be the fighter's safety net. The rest are in it for the money. But a fighter's family, if decent, should be there to stop a guy from making a suicidal decision. And the licensing board because the final say-so comes down to them. If they don't grant.... nobody fights. So they carry a huge part of the blame.

Next I'd say trainers, because they know the fighters almost as much, or better, than the fighters know themselves. A good trainer should discourage a fighter from taking that one last fight. If that doesn't work.... then walk away. Promoters are in it for the money, so they couldn't give a shit if the cash cow dies in the process of yielding its last payday.

And you're right about the press and fans. Most knowledgeable ones are quick to criticize and point out when a fighter shouldn't be stepping into the ring. Then again, we're also the ones with the least say-so in the matter.

[walrus]

Ultimately it is the fighter himself but I think family and friends share some blame. The fighter may not be thinking clearly and may require intervention. No one better to drive home the issue than family. Having said that basically everyone you mentioned has an effect on the situation.

[Ron Swanson]

Really tricky question because what makes a fighter make it is what puts him back in the ring. That "I'll show everyone they're wrong about me" stuff that pushes them through grueling workouts and injuries.

My next thought was family and friends but then see. "I'll show everyone they're wrong about me". And I've participated in telling a fighter it was over and that went nowhere with him. In the end I said " I don't know what to say then man, I love you but I won't be there". He was knocked out, again, in the 1st, again. I suspect friends and family try to stop fighters far more than we can even imagine.

So I move on to trainers and authorities. I've had people ask me to train them, I always refused because I would feel responsible for their safety.(and someone else could do it better) I would suspect most trainers feel that way so there is 2 lines of thought there
1)the trainer should feel responsible for the fighters safety and refuse to train them
2)the trainer should feel responsibility for their safety and insist on training them since they're going to fight anyway. If the trainer is sure they are the best man for the job....
Both thoughts are valid in their own ways

So that leaves the authorities, if you're going to oversee then oversee! After all you're leeches that serve no purpose, serve one.

[Violent Demise]

Nothing tricky about it. If he's passing all his tests that the blame can only fall on the fighter. Chances are he's coming back for financial reasons. He failed to take good care of his money. Which is again the fighters own fault

[FinitoElDinamita]

I dont think it's anybody's fault. Man has the right to do whatever he wants and if he wants to fight, so be it.

[Spicoli]

I think it falls to the fighter, commissions and the people affording them the platform..promotion. No one behind the scenes -honestly- thinks he'll be a viable threat or be the focal point but rather the scalp..the name and side kick to a bigger established favorite. There are stepping stones all over the sport that are essential but Taylors accomplishments will put him on a higher platform and one he still thinks he belongs. With promoters and commissions you have the inmates running the asylum. Some of the worst cases you never hear of and they never leave in the first place, just keep taking lumps to pay the rent and monthly bills. As much attention as a guy like Taylor had at the very top and the judgement that came also, there needs to be equal attention to the fact he is returning by those who would make a buck on him in any capacity along the way. Yes, including the fighter. I got to the point where you fear them being a statistic to realizing it may take just that. These are not children. Who do you blame..the addict or the dealer

It doesn't help in the Jones Jr. case when he is spotlighted on "The" premier network in another capacity and its a hard pill to swallow listening to him criticize other fighters and in a few cases call for THERE retirements and guys taking damage etc. and at the same time knowing he is in talks to fight something called Bobby f'n Gunn.

[Galaxy]

I'm gonna say the fighter. If you do something & it provides for your family then that's what your going to do. At the end of the day it is your choice to step inside the ring

I lost my last fight & suffered a blood clot on the brain. I was advised to never fight again. Now this was the 70's & I guarantee I would have been allowed back in the ring but I choose to walk away & put my family first. There are many other ways to earn a living

[erics44]

I dont think it's anybody's fault. Man has the right to do whatever he wants and if he wants to fight, so be it.

i agree

who knows if 10 brutal knockouts is any worse than 10 wars or any 10 fights

theres all these do gooders saying he should stop and whatever but what do they know, stop smoking and drinking and driving your car too fast

[Dark Lord Al]

Is he being dragged to the ring against his will ?
No , so its his choice and if all goes wrong his fault.

[erics44]

i didnt realise jermain taylor had already had bleading on the brain like

just about everyone on the list is at fault for him getting back in the ring if that is the case

[Rantcatrat]

Fighters are warriors though. Many probably won't admit to their career being finished. Should we let them die because they want to fight when fighting risks their lives? Trainers/promoters and Commissions should be blamed. I actually thought Dibella's stance on Taylor was correct. He knew Taylor had medical issues and didn't want to be a part of it. Trainers should do the same. Commissions shouldn't license guys who have had blood on the brain. If that happens, the fighter's career should be over.

[Master]

I think the fighter has the biggest responsibility to know when to quit. Then in order is his trainer, manager, team, family, authorities and then lastly the fans. Even if they are medically fit there is a time when a fighter is so shot that he will get hurt. James Toney comes to mind.

[J_Undisputed]

Its the fighters fault. You can deny him a license, refuse to train him, refuse to manage him, refuse to speak to support him. He will apply somewhere else, get another trainer, another manager, and a different circle of friends that will support him. There will always be someone willing to twist someone with a name and make some money off them.

"Protect yourself at all times...." Words to live by...